RP Development Problems?

[Vanimal46]

This idea stems from the latest Gleeman and the Geek podcast... Aaron and John were discussing the need to upgrade the bullpen, and talked about in the past how the Twins were able to plug in less touted prospects with sustained success. Juan Rincon, JC Romero, Jose Mijares, Matt Guerrier, Jesse Crain just to name a few. These days the Twins have Perkins who's developed into an all-star, Casey Fien has stuck around for a little too long IMO, and Duensing (who I love to hate) as the only pitchers in the bullpen who have been here for years.  

 

I'm not sure if it's a development issue, or just a lack of talent in the minors, but why haven't the Twins been able to plug in relievers and see success like they were in the past?

[Mike Sixel]

They have been reluctant to even try, imo. Rather than turn their AAAA SP into relievers, they have been cutting them. And, Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin and others barely got a look last year in a completely lost season. I'm not sure I understand.

 

Rogers, Berrios, Duffey could all be in the bullpen right now, w/o damaging their futures. Not happening for some reason. May could actually be used, not happening.

 

It isn't clear why those things are not happening (the mind boggling one to me is last year not giving guys shots in a lost year).

[Shane Wahl]

Well, I think that Tonkin and Oliveros should actually be given extended looks over weeks as opposed to days at a time. They are dominant AAA relievers. Fien is absolutely done and needs to be replaced. The Twins need to trust their guys in the system and promote freely. O'Rourke is a true exception to their weirdness about this, and I would bet cash money that he works out well for *years* as a LOOGY.

 

Playoffs: Rogers-Meyer-O'Rourke-Oliveros as a combination for the 7th and 8th innings . . . could be dynamite in terms of strikeouts, which are needed in this bullpen. May should be starting in the playoffs, but otherwise he fits here too.

[Shane Wahl]

 

 

They have been reluctant to even try, imo. Rather than turn their AAAA SP into relievers, they have been cutting them. And, Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin and others barely got a look last year in a completely lost season. I'm not sure I understand.

 

Rogers, Berrios, Duffey could all be in the bullpen right now, w/o damaging their futures. Not happening for some reason. May could actually be used, not happening.

 

It isn't clear why those things are not happening (the mind boggling one to me is last year not giving guys shots in a lost year).

 

Also, this.

 

 

[Vanimal46]

 

They have been reluctant to even try, imo. Rather than turn their AAAA SP into relievers, they have been cutting them. And, Achter, Oliveros, Tonkin and others barely got a look last year in a completely lost season. I'm not sure I understand.

 

Rogers, Berrios, Duffey could all be in the bullpen right now, w/o damaging their futures. Not happening for some reason. May could actually be used, not happening.

 

It isn't clear why those things are not happening (the mind boggling one to me is last year not giving guys shots in a lost year).

 

 

When did us as fans and the team get so caught up on the thought of "oh no we need to keep him as a starter otherwise it hurts his development" when we're keeping these players from the end goal of making it to the show? I'm sure any of those players would take the ball with a smile on their face if it meant wearing a Twins cap instead of the Rochester Red Wings....

[Mike Sixel]

If you are Rogers or Duffey, there are 5-7 guys in front of you right now......Plus Gonsalves breathing down your neck. LOTS of teams call a guy up from AAA to get a taste as a RP then send them down the next year to start (or keep them in RP role).

 

What are the odds Rogers/Duffey start more than 5 meaningful games in the next 18 months? If they are both starting, something bad happened to:

 

Hughes

Santana

Gibson

May

Berrios

 

And, these two are off the team or on the IR (or DL, or whatever):

Nolasco

Milone

 

 

And possibly:

Gonsalves

Meyer

Either Duffey or Rogers (you know, Rogers starting means Duffey is behind him......and vice versa)

Random guy who could start in a pinch

[drjim]

 

Well, I think that Tonkin and Oliveros should actually be given extended looks over weeks as opposed to days at a time. They are dominant AAA relievers. Fien is absolutely done and needs to be replaced. The Twins need to trust their guys in the system and promote freely. O'Rourke is a true exception to their weirdness about this, and I would bet cash money that he works out well for *years* as a LOOGY.

 

Playoffs: Rogers-Meyer-O'Rourke-Oliveros as a combination for the 7th and 8th innings . . . could be dynamite in terms of strikeouts, which are needed in this bullpen. May should be starting in the playoffs, but otherwise he fits here too.

 

I assume you are talking about Rochester, right?

 

I know the Twins need bullpen help but this really isn't credible.

[Shane Wahl]

 

I assume you are talking about Rochester, right?

 

I know the Twins need bullpen help but this really isn't credible.

 

You think there are better options in the current Twins bullpen?

[howieramone2]

The Draft Class of 2012 is shaping up to be fairly strong and has 3 or 4 power relievers, most of whom have missed at least one year with injuries. The Draft Class of 2014 also has a number of power arms, but it's far too early to even guess what we have. Add in the 2 Rule 5 guys and the future looks bright. It would have been really nice if all the pieces of the multi-year rebuild had come together at the same time, but that simple isn't always practical.

[jun]

If the bullpen are struggling as a group, the blame should go to the bullpen coach. Twins should have kept the bullpen coach because the bullpen had been consistently good despite consective 90-loss seasons. Current bullpen coach is not doing his job right.

[drjim]

 

You think there are better options in the current Twins bullpen?

 

Better than the guys you mentioned? Absolutely, and probably not that close.

[jimbo92107]

Casey Fien looks worn out; I'd replace him with Michael Tonkin. Blaine Boyer is hanging on by his fingernails; I'd replace him with Jose Berrios. Brian Duensing is like a yo-yo, sometimes up, sometimes down. Is he worn out, or not getting enough innings? I still can't tell. If he gets much worse, I'd replace him with Taylor Rogers. Point is, even if Duensing needs more innings, that's not the job.

 

These are all experiments to try now, not a month from now. The team needs these guys to get their feet wet, so they can gather data on what works and what doesn't at the highest level.

 

I'll also say the same thing goes for Oswaldo Arcia. The team needs to find out if his bat is back. If so, it's a big advantage batting Arcia behind Sano against righties.

[DaveW]

Having a bullpen full of rookies or guys like Tonkin who have shown nothing at the major league level is a receipe for disaster. You can maybe try to get one or two rookies to step up, but the solution isn't going to be "hey let's demote everyone and just call up the AAA roster!"

[Mike Sixel]

 

Having a bullpen full of rookies or guys like Tonkin who have shown nothing at the major league level is a receipe for disaster. You can maybe try to get one or two rookies to step up, but the solution isn't going to be "hey let's demote everyone and just call up the AAA roster!"

 

any evidence this is true at all? do you KNOW that rookies can't be counted on?

 

And, who said demote everyone?*

 

*ok, someone probably did.....

[Vanimal46]

We don't have to go with extreme measures of calling up the entire AAA bullpen, but there has to be someone down there that can make an impact over the next 2.5 months. Throw all of their names in a hat and draw one out to make the call-up, I don't care... I just find it strange that our bullpen has been a glaring weakness for months, and other than ROR being called up recently, they have refused to give anyone else a shot to earn a spot in the pen.