Twins Fan Forum -- Q&A with TR and Dave St. Peter

[JB_Iowa]

I'm familiar with the concept, but there's nothing uniquely Twins about it. To call it the Twins Way smacks of the team's hubris.

 

Then call it the little engine that could -- because that's how I thought of it.  I remember watching the Tigers of about 2003 (can't remember the exact year) and thinking that the Twins could never be that fundamentally unsound but there have been plenty of embarrassing moments over the last few years,  The Twins have truly lost their way.

 

Thanks for the great summary, glunn.

[Mike Sixel]

Thanks foR the notes. Meh describes how I feel about this team.

 

If he thinks Suzuki will improve, I am confused. He had a career year, didn't he?

 

Also, I don't think he knows what tickets cost if he thinks that list of players would get people to buy season tickets.....

[Otto von Ballpark]

The first thing that struck me is that when discussing a lack of leadership, and any potential leaders, Joe Mauer's name is not even brought up.  While I don't believe every top player needs to be a leader on the team, but it sure would be nice if our highest paid player was one.  Not shocking, but still a pretty glaring omission.

I'm not one to pick on Mauer, but it's been really cool to see catchers like Perez and Molina getting riled up this postseason, barking at their teammates, and leading frequent (perhaps too-frequent ) conferences on the mound.

[Otto von Ballpark]

The next question was about how the next manager should be different from Gardy.  TR said that the next manager should be like Gardy in terms of respect from the players, management of the pitching staff and sabermetrics.  (Yes, he said sabermetrics).  TR then said that despite Gardy's strengths, something was wrong and needed to change.  TR then said that he is looking for a guy who is ready to go and take it to the next level.

This disappointed me a bit.

 

I get that TR keeps things close to the vest and he respects Gardenhire, but can he seriously not share any one specific area where Gardy could improve?  Sabermetrics should be the easy one, and he actually called it a Gardy strength instead?

 

This is the kind of thing that makes me believe Gardy was just a fall guy for the entire organization's failings.  And the guys in the front office still can't/won't admit to those failings or learn from them.

 

And if you're going to dismiss Gardy for nebulous reasons about "taking it to the next level" -- why not dismiss him after one of his many playoff failures?  Those were team that needed to take it to the next level, in my opinion.  The current team just needs to find a level.  (Fun fact: In Gardy's tenure as manager, we've now seen every other AL Central team make a deep postseason run, including KC...)

[drjim]

This disappointed me a bit.

 

I get that TR keeps things close to the vest and he respects Gardenhire, but can he seriously not share any one specific area where Gardy could improve? Sabermetrics should be the easy one, and he actually called it a Gardy strength instead?

 

This is the kind of thing that makes me believe Gardy was just a fall guy for the entire organization's failings. And the guys in the front office still can't/won't admit to those failings or learn from them.

 

And if you're going to dismiss Gardy for nebulous reasons about "taking it to the next level" -- why not dismiss him after one of his many playoff failures? Those were team that needed to take it to the next level, in my opinion. The current team just needs to find a level. (Fun fact: In Gardy's tenure as manager, we've now seen every other AL Central team make a deep postseason run, including KC...)

I've thought about this too. I wonder if Ryan believes this or he doesn't publicly want to criticize Gardy. A fine line between disturbing and admirably. The hire should speak to this.

 

On another note, Gardy made a postseason run as deep as Cleveland or Kansas City (so far). So it would be correct to say during his tenure all AL Central teams made a deep run.

 

Or you could say since Gardy Meade his deep run all other Central teams made a deep run.

 

Or since his last playoff win all other Central teams have a playoff win.

[Otto von Ballpark]

On another note, Gardy made a postseason run as deep as Cleveland or Kansas City (so far).

I shouldn't quibble, but both have gone further in the ALCS -- Cleveland to the full 7 games, and KC is guaranteed 6 games this year.  The Twins won 1 game before rolling over for 4 straight losses.

 

If you view Oakland as a cursed modern franchise (as I do), it puts the 2002 Twins run in an even worse light.  (My theory is that the Twins ALDS win in 2002 and Oakland's in 2006 essentially cancel each other out. Oakland is more "cursed" than disappointment, though, due to the sheer number of very close 5 game ALDS losses.)

 

Cleveland and Detroit have also both beat the Yankees in the playoffs, and Chicago beat a team that beat the Yankees in the playoffs that same year.

[stringer bell]

To me, the "Twins Way" stuff is a poorly handled PR. There was a lot of pride that the Twins could compete with a smaller payroll and limited resources. I suppose that they probably believed the praise they received from both the local and national media.

 

To have something work and then abruptly have the plan look so feeble and backward has to have been hard not only for the PR people, but the decision makers. Because most of the same people are in the front office, they have to spin this or basically walk back from what they have done for years.

 

IMHO, baseball has changed. Pitching is far better and strikeouts are the new currency. Power arms rule over sinking and cutting 90 mph fastballs. Advanced metrics are accepted well beyond OBP and BABIP. The Twins have not been the followers in these trends and it shows. They are good enough at spotting talent that the future looks good, but much more failure from the big club might bring the entire front office down.

[alskntwnsfn]

Thanks so much for posting this glunn! I have to agree, I'm not impressed, though as another poster said there is no spin left for this team. 

 

The biggest things for me were things like, "Arica strikes out too much"… and we tried to address that how, it's obvious, how are we going to fix it? Or talking about other teams, the drafting of the Cards/Giants and player acquisition of the A's… do we have our people studying how these teams have succeeded in these areas? 

 

They could tell me they were going to increase the payroll to $140M this year and I still wouldn't be excited. As usual, any top-line star is not coming here unless we massively overpay, meaning we have to do an effective job of finding lower-tier free agents or waiver wire guys. 

[The Wise One]

I'm familiar with the concept, but there's nothing uniquely Twins about it. To call it the Twins Way smacks of the team's hubris.

From comments made in the book about the 91 season I read a while ago I wouldn't say it is hubris when the players and writer made it sound like no one worked harder on the little things than those guys. More aptly it should have been called the Tom Kelly way. His guys bought into it, those that came to the team had to. I kind of thought that the early Kelly group of guys were work hard, play hard, live large kind of guys. The culture changed.

Not that this is about anything you wrote, but as long as I am here. The  statistical analysis will not show leadership qualities. As mentioned elsewhere, leadership has to come from those that produce. That is part of baseball culture that the Twins forgot about at the begining of the season. The long man out of the bullpen or the 4th outfielder isn't going to be your leader. So while looking at how good of player is paramount, there does have to be some vocal people. A team loaded with followers and lead by example types I do not think will produce as well as a better mix of personalities.

[glunn]

Here is a link to an article about the conference call that I was reporting on in this thread.