On 2/22/2024 at 8:51 AM, tony&rodney said:

FWIW, it seems like there may have been some double counting. The revenue pile is 48% of each team's monies is collected and then distributed to all 30 organizations. This means that one can only add 52% of whatever revenue the Twins created to that number.

Factually, we don't know all of the numbers and frankly it seems like a futile task that ends in disagreement.

 

I'm fairly certain that the folks that comment on here know the numbers with 100% certainty.  Probably better than the Twins own accountants and finance guys and way better than MLB's guys as well.  Those guys don't know nothing.  I always come to the experts on here for financial advice.

7 hours ago, dxpavelka said:

I'm fairly certain that the folks that comment on here know the numbers with 100% certainty.  Probably better than the Twins own accountants and finance guys and way better than MLB's guys as well.  Those guys don't know nothing.  I always come to the experts on here for financial advice.

Same crap as the players, right? Fact is, a few of us know something about something and the rest is wild speculation. If you despise it so much, you are free to leave.

On 2/21/2024 at 6:08 PM, tony&rodney said:

"The Twins are looking at $396 million in revenue based on this model and are spending only 30% on payroll." - from your post

Your post and the numbers you used raise legitimate questions. 

 

The media monies are well known  Forbes looks at sales tax revenues because that is a public number.  The in stadium revenue  for 2023 would be the same as 2022 plus whatever increase for attendance. The model presented Ed is flawed because there is an assumption that everywhere is the same price for things. 

Until the fans show their displeasure by not filling the stadium the owners will continue to nickel and dime this team to squeeze every last penny out of until they finally sell it. 

16 hours ago, purplesoldier4u said:

Same crap as the players, right? Fact is, a few of us know something about something and the rest is wild speculation. If you despise it so much, you are free to leave.

Right.  YOU are the one who knows.  ********.

On 2/23/2024 at 1:26 PM, jharaldson said:

Thanks for responding!  I appreciate that there are different measurements for an audience and that they can fluctuate.  If we look at the 2 you described above we can see that regardless of the difference in size, they are still about the same ratio to each other: 

The MSA of Atlanta 6,104,803 - Twin Cities 3,690,512 - MSP/ATL = 60.4% 

The CSA of Atlanta is 6,930,4323 - Twin Cities 4,080,232 = 58.9%

When I used them in my stats I stated that the Twins could only make 60% of the non-broadcast revenue, which is a small round down from the MSA and a small round up from the CSA.  I would argue that for the purpose of a high level discussion like this that CSA vs. MSA vs. Etc.... is a distinction without a difference.

I don't disagree that folks outside the metro make up a good part of Twins Territory.  The question is how much?  If we look at the Braves statement again we can see that it is broken up into multiple revenue sources:

Baseball Events - $324M - These events are going to be financed in large by local Metro companies purchasing suites and local families purchasing season tickets.  Individual game sales and visits by folks outside the MSA and CSA would be measurable but would not make up a significant amount of this money.

Broadcasting - $139M - This is going to be based on the equal share of national money that is pulled out and a variance in local broadcasting.  My understanding is that the Twins are going to make $40M while the Braves make $68M, which puts the Twins at 58.8% of comparable revenue and in line with my 60% assumption.

Retail and Licensing - $45M - This may have an outsized influence from outside the MSA but this is also the smallest source.  Looking at estimates if the Twins are between 30-60% of Braves revenue in this area it only changes the overall number by $13M total. 

The short of this is I agree with your final statement, despite whatever gymnastics I am doing here I don't know the real numbers.   What I disagree with is that despite this fact, my numbers aren't accurate enough to support my article title of whatever happened to the 50% rule.  They are good enough for that and they are supported by the fact that Dave St. Peter backpedaled into the bushes like Homer Simpson when asked about this by Aaron Gleeman in the context of a $140M payroll at the time.

As Brian pointed out, you are ignoring a lot of people for this.  The populations of Georgia, North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, and Mississippi combine to equal 42.4M; this ignores Louisiana, northern Florida, and southern Virgina/Kentucky which might well be considered Braves territory.  The populations of Minnesota, North Dakota, and South Dakota combine to equal 7.4M; this ignores Iowa (where the Twins have competition from MIL and the Chicago teams), as well as western Wisconsin and eastern Montana.  Even if you added the totality of those 3 states you only get to 17.7M, which means a complete pie-in-the-sky comparison gives the Twins 41.7% of the Braves population number.  A more reasonable number is probably about 12M, which equates to 28.5%; your 60% number is likely too high by double.

Have you ever thought that maybe DSP avoiding directly answering the question because he didn't want his bosses (as well as the other 29 owners) screaming at him for de facto opening baseball's books?  DSP probably can't talk about the revenue/payroll too openly without incurring significant ire.

On 2/23/2024 at 8:30 PM, Seth Stohs said:

According to Forbes, the Twins had Revenues of $267 million in 2023... They say that the Twins had $172 million in "Player Expenses." (I'm not sure what the difference is between that and "Payroll" might be... 

Regardless, but that, the Twins should have been at about $133-140 million in 2023. They were at $152 million or so. 

They're down about $20 million in TV revenue in 2024... assume all else is equal, that's $247 million in revenues, which would put them at an expected payroll of $123-128 million. They're at $122ish million right now, and likely still looking for a right-handed bat in the $3-5 million range.

Apparently, few here are going to let the facts get in the way of the conclusions they’ve drawn.

On 2/26/2024 at 2:58 PM, purplesoldier4u said:

Same crap as the players, right? Fact is, a few of us know something about something and the rest is wild speculation. If you despise it so much, you are free to leave.

as are you