KirbyDome89

I get that, the point was that it probably isn't the best move to dump what prospects they have for a 3 month rental and a shot at a one game wild card. No, there is no chance they actually pay for a pitcher like that. If by some miracle they decided to pry open the checkbook I can't say I would be against handing out a contract to a starting pitcher like Darvish though.

Or they could just keep the prospects and sign Darvish in December.... Idk how in favor of trading prospects I would be, given that I think this team is still more pretender than contender.

The point would be that just as every HBP isn't the same, neither is every celebration. Like I said, there needs to be a way to make distinctions.

Isn't that being argued to the point of absurdity though? If you're not allowed to different between celebrations and you have to condemn them all then the same rules must apply to every HBP right? I had an issue with Sano getting plunked and Machado ducking fastballs near his head, but I'm not rankled every time a batter gets hit. There has to be room to make distinctions.

Hopefully they're a little more patient with the group of young pitchers coming up than they were with Mejia.

I'm not beating the Adrianza drum, I have my own reservations about him being a good OFer, but given who he is replacing I can't get too worked up about him getting a shot. I really don't want to see much of Grossman in the OF. Maybe it's a situation of preferring the evil that I don't know but I'm more in favor of seeing what Adrianza can do in LF/RF rather than watch Grossman. Don't you think using him only as a late inning defensive replacement is kind of a waste of a roster spot? To me that seems like the "Danny Santana can pinch run argument." He won't replace Dozier, and unless Polanco or Sano are struggling they shouldn't be losing reps on a consistent basis either. If that is his only role then I don't see the point of having him on the 25 man. Adrianza's bat and Grossman's defense vs. Danny Santana's defense and Escobar's bat is at best a wash and I would probably give the advantage to DanSan/Escobar in the situation. They don't have to be used this way explicitly but if Adrianza isn't going to play in the OF I don't see another scenario. I've been on the Park train since they signed him, and I haven't hopped off yet, but given his early season injury and the way Vargas has played so far I ok with him staying at AAA for the time being. I would've liked to see him start the season with the Twins instead of a 13th pitcher, but that's another topic....

I can't say I'm sad to see DanSan go. I think the Twins get a slight upgrade on defense with Adrianza but the hitting is probably a wash. I think you have a great point about how he is used. If Adrianza stays in the OF like Santana then I'm all for giving somebody other than Danny a look. I've been calling for a 4th OFer for a while now. If he's used as the utility IFer as well and they're benching Escobar's bat and forcing Grossman to be the 4th OFer then I'm with you 100%, I think at best it's a horizontal move. I suppose there are a lot of ways to utilize him, which is a good thing, but hopefully his primary role is as the 4th OFer.

So everybody who disagrees with your take on an issue has a low baseball IQ? Tell me, what is it like being the smartest man in baseball? I'm surprised some FO hasn't lured you away from TD yet....

Wait what? Strategic use of the 40 man you say? What is that?.....

I can't think of many worse reasons to keep him in the rotation. I'm not saying you agree with that line of thinking but damn is that infuriating.

I wasn't thrilled with Mejia only getting three starts either so no argument about him over Tepesch or stretching Duffey. If he was pitching Saturday instead of Tepesch I wouldn't be nearly as annoyed. I would still rather Jose get the call but Mejia makes more sense than simply waiting until they fall under .500 to make a change.

I get where you're coming from. I guess from what I've read about 99.9% of posts that disagree with the FO aren't extreme. I'm not saying I agree with all of them but there almost always is some reasoning provided. I feel like the "you're not part of the FO," argument is used as a crutch, and incorrectly so, when somebody tries to defend FO moves. A person's level of involvement with the organization doesn't directly correlate to how "correct," their opinion is.

"Don't fix what isn't broken," would maybe hold weight if 2/5 of the starting rotation wasn't a disaster waiting to happen. I think Mike said it earlier, but if the argument is that the Twins organization knows more than we do therefore they're always right then there is no point to any of the discussion in the forums.

Well, the logical question to follow is what do they do if they're near .500 at the end of May? What about June? If you think he's a better pitcher than Tepesch, then I don't see how their record the opening month, or any month of the season matters. Of course I agree with the last paragraph, I was vocal about the same things last season. Admittedly I don't see them contending this season so I'm having a hard time seeing how a 14-11 suddenly changes the view for the rest of the season, but a couple losses switches it right back. It seems unusual to base extreme position shifts on a handful of games.

Honest question for you guys. Why does a couple games difference in the win/loss column change your opinion so dramatically? Hypothetical here: If Ervin had lost a couple close games and was 3-2 instead of 5-0 and Pressly had coughed up a third game the Twins would be 11-14. None of that affects Berrios ability to pitch at the major league level. If you don't think he's ready right now then fine, but why does the Twins April record, despite the lack of production from the 4/5 spots in the rotation, dictate when he comes up?

1. Yes I think he is ready. As none of us are pitching coaches and very likely aren't watching him throw every game has done anything this season to show he isn't capable of pitching at the big league level this season? 2. The guys at the top are different but a lot of the old regime remains in place. I'm not bitching about gutting the organization in the first few months but the amount of change wasn't exactly striking. Now, add to that the fact that a lot of moves made during the offseason and so far this season have been eerily similar to those made in the past six seasons it shouldn't be surprising that posters are questioning what is going on. In the same way it would be foolish to criticize a new FO for simply going about business in a different way, I see no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt in every situation just because a different group is at the top. If you're looking at the moves from an objective perspective I would say they have been underwhelming thus far. 3. I didn't see any posts accusing the FO of lying about Berrios needing to stretch out. They gave a reason for not placing him in the rotation to start the year. I happen to think it was a piss poor reason. If they wanted him to start the season with the Twins they easily could have made that happen. I don't think he was ever a candidate to start in the rotation. I believe they did hold his WBC stint against him. They weren't wrong, he would have needed to stretch out a bit, but I think that rationale was exaggerated. 4. At worst I think Berrios can duplicate what Gibson is doing right now. They showed a quick hook with Mejia (I disagree with only 3 starts before the hook) but what is stopping them from doing that to Berrios if he is bad again? They obviously aren't concerned with using a small sample to justify sending a guy back down so why not let Berrios pitch? 5. Based on the reasoning the Twins gave for keeping Berrios out of the rotation to start the year it does seem like he was "punished," for participating in the WBC. Personally I don't think that was the driving factor for keeping him out, but that is what the team said and if you believe that is the reason he didn't crack the rotation then yes I think it can be viewed as a punishment of sorts. 6.The argument for Berrios struggles affecting the team more than Buxton's is valid. That said, I would rather watch Berrios than either Tepesch or Gibson. It might not be the most sound reasoning but I would at least be excited about watching starts coming from the 4th or 5th spot. 7. Gibson. Yuck.

Molitor is never going to let him go now.....

Just turned the game on the radio....think I might just listen to a podcast instead...

THIS It's essentially a no lose situation to leave him down. If he's ready now (which many of us believe) and they leave him down another month or two and he pitches well when he comes up that extended stay in AAA will be cited as the reason for the turnaround. There is absolutely no way to prove whether it did or didn't help but it certainly will be given credit.

Can't the same be said for leaving him in AAA though? The reason for keeping him down is his lack of success against major league hitters last season, but he can't prove that he has overcome those issues until he faces major league competition again; i.e. he is called up.

I wonder the same thing. For the people clamoring that he needs to stay down in AAA and work on command, what makes you trust that the coaching staff down there is capable of helping him? They've failed the last couple tries. Is the third time suddenly the charm? Disclaimer: I don't subscribe to the "needs better coaching," theory. Personally I think whatever was going on in his first 58 innings with the Twins can be righted by Berrios at the major league level. I don't think the Twins need to be "cautious," with him and what is left for him to learn can be taught in the big leagues by an MLB coaching staff. Its funny to me that over 200 dominant IPs at AAA is somehow a meaningless sample yet 58 poor IPs with the Twins is plenty to know he shouldn't be here. I agree that it's on him to learn how to be an effective MLB pitcher at this point, but part of finding that success requires that he actually pitch for the Twins....

The Twins win/loss record shouldn't dictate when prospects move up. If they're ready and they offer an improvement over what the MLB team currently has then they should be up.

So he had a career year like every player ever?

No disagreement on Gimenez being on the roster but I'm not going to give him (or Castro) credit for the way Santana and Santiago have started the season in the same way I'm not blaming them for the performances of Gibson and Mejia.

I don't think I can put any blame on either of them for the way Gibson has looked... That was the point. You nailed it when you said we've seen these guys pitch. Gibson struggled before they arrived and Ervin was good the second half of last season. The backstops aren't turning coal to diamonds or vice versa.