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Platoon

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Everything posted by Platoon

  1. Platoon
    I still have a flip phone! What do all those extra O's mean between the L's?
  2. Platoon
    "Make the Dodgers settle instead of forcing the Twins to settle." We differ on this quote. Regardless of the outcome of this trade, I hope it is not made with any consideration as to whether the Dodgers are or are not satisfied, nor how anyone will view it based on a won/loss criteria. The only metric should be whether our FO gets what they feel is value for Dozier at this time. Despite my opinions, theirs is all that matters. To me the value of a deal, whether it be an excess garden tractor, or an excess second baseman rests solely on whether I got what I needed or wanted. What the other guy received or didn't receive in value is his problem. That said, years ago in a bar in a small town, a total stranger walked in, sat down with us, rolled up his sleeve and had a whole arm full of watches. "Wanna buy a watch?" . I never thought anyone actually did that except perhaps in vaudeville?
  3. Platoon
    I can agree that more pieces lessen the chance of an unmitigated disaster of a deal, with this caveat. There will be a sum total of the parts, and that total can be reached via quantity, or quality. In this case specifically I would want quality. We have a whole lot of SP quantity on hand. Assuming DeLeon is the core piece, and assuming his ceiling is as advertised, then he really becomes my benchmark. And to add one last assumption, I cannot believe they would actually consider trading two top end arms for BD. Meaning anything else is lottery ticket fodder. So the answer is, if they diddle around with DeLeon as a trade piece I would walk. As stated, I am not interested in numbers or position players for Dozier. The Twins are in an unfortunately unique position. Lots of SP, with an almost comic level of incompetence. And this is not a one year history of said incompetence. It's become status quo. Without SP, 8 Doziers will still not a contender make!
  4. Platoon
    On your first point, I think at best he's a wash for next year. Reason? It's highly unlikely he will surpass his career and almost MLB historical highs. The "better" will come from the improvement of Sano, Buxton, Kepler et al. I totally agree with your point on 2017. And your points on 2018 and 9 are in line with mine. This would be a trade for the future. To answer you and Brock on Doziers value in '17, I have exactly the same amount of knowledge of that as everyone else does. None! But I do think at best it's 40/60 that it increases. And I would take the bird in the hand, and move on. My dad always said, "once you sell the pigs, never look at the hog markets". No matter which way this trade goes or doesn't, there's gonna be a lot of discussion about the hog market next year!
  5. Platoon
    You have some very valid points. Nor in a perfect scenario would I argue them. Hopefully there are other avenues to improving the pitching? But thay all have issues. An expensive veteran? Trading one of our top position prospects? A currently non existent FA market? And while your take on supply and demand is likely correct, will the demand increase? The chances of that, and the chances of a prospect like DeLeon are both open to the same level of conjecture. Both the Dodgers and Twins would be trading something they don't need for something they need. That to me impacts my view on this negotiation. While I cannot guarantee DeLeons future success, BD past history of lengthly droughts does not allow the guarantee of his static value at the trade deadline. Nor for that matter his value to the Dodgers playoff chances. While it is true that the immediate impact of the trade most likely will be in the Dodgers favor, the fact remains that short of trading some of the high end Twins position "prospects", this team has little foreseeable avenues to improving its SP in time to take advantage of the maturation of these "prospects". It's not an enviable situation. That said, if I thought BD would have more value in June, or even next winter, I would keep him. But I don't. IMHO he is a luxury this team would be remiss in not cashing in on.
  6. Platoon
    While one could nitpick and contend the offensive grading was about a letter to generous in comparison to the SP grades, one cannot deny that this staff was almost comical in its ineptitude. And not all of it was strictly the fault of the players. Hopefully the new regime gets away from trying to change players into something they are not.
  7. Platoon
    Contrary to some views, Dozier will not become more valuable during the season. It's highly unlikely his offensive numbers will improve from career highs, his defense won't, and his contractual stability is a diminishing asset. The Twins will not be a better team because BD is here next year. That will not happen until the SP is upgraded, and the up the middle defense is improved. It is possible that if, dangling Dozier out there like a 2004 GMC pickup in the front yard with a "For Sale" sign on it that the best offer to the FO underwhelming, Dozier is not worth what some thought. But what is not possible is the fantasy that he will be worth more in the future.
  8. Platoon
    I also thought the grading was too high. Someone above me made a point that even Doziers grade was high due to his two month black hole. I kind of go back to RG. If he is a B, then Sano and yours truly should be taking fly balls this winter. We can run lousy routes with the best of them, although at my age bending over, running, and stepping on my own glove would be difficult. . I only wish my teachers had graded like this. It would have likely elevated me into the upper 75 percentile!
  9. Platoon
    Grossman a B, and Kepler a B-? Grossman with a case to be the starting LF, or the DH? While not having RG in LF anymore would make TD GT far less entertaining, I will be more than happy to suffer that withdrawal. In the Old West, some towns made you check your guns on entering the city limits. I feel that policy should also extend to Robbie's fielding gloves at the Ft. Myers border. Btw, I apologize for using the words "fielding" and "gloves" in the same sentence with regards to RG. . And as for DH? When you have a hitter who's main weapon is drawing walks, and not doing much damage to strikes, it doesn't take long for MLB pitchers to narrow their zone.
  10. Platoon
    It's going to be interesting to see if Molitor can steer clear of his dart board lineups. I don't know if they were the result of a delusional effort to lose a couple less games on the way to 103, or if he thinks he can match up every position, every game? It would be interesting to know who was responsible for the decisions regarding the SP roster, such as the Trevor May fiasco. Ryan or Molitor? The single biggest thing a manager can do is put players in a position in which they have a chance to excel. Molitor has not shown either that basic attribute, nor the ability to recognize what sort of team he possesses. If he doesn't acquire those two basics at a minimum this coming year, I wonder how the new kids on the block will deal with an ill suited manager, carrying a lineup card in one pocket, and the Pohlad Pass in the other?
  11. Platoon
    May ending up in the BP last year was simply confusing from the get go. His staying there after his DL stints, when he was very clear about the lack of rest being a factor in his injuries, was more likely borderline stubbornness by either Molitor or Ryan. It wasn't like the talent level needed for a rotation spot was of Cy Young caliber. These issues keep bringing me back to Molitor. I know the new guys can't blow everything up this week, and that Molitor is operating on a "Pohlad Pass" this year. But to me, part of 2017 is going to be whether he can put a cohesive lineup on the field this year. While I wouldn't expect anyone to have won with the dearth of pitching last year, his dart board approach to managing certainly didn't minimize the carnage!
  12. Platoon
    I still don't think enough weight is being placed on the value of the competing "positions" that each team is dealing from. The Dodgers are far more likely to be able this year, to fill in the second base position with a MLB level player, than the Twins are to improve the stock of their starting pitching prospects, if the Dozier trade does not go through. I am not, btw, insinuating that the only landing spot for Dozier is LA. But he is currently the only trade avenue towards an upgrade in the SP area. And if another trade partner can be identified, go for it. But for me the bottom line in determining the need level here, is this. The Dodgers will win a lot of games next year, and be competitive, sans Dozier. In the event that they need a 2B in mid summer, they can likely rent one. The Twins on the other hand are not going to win a lot of games, nor will Doziers presence seemingly impact that observation. See 2016. The Twins future positional success depends on the continued development of Buxton, Sano, Polanco, Kepler, and a defensive SS. An avenue to success exists there. Such an avenue is not apparent with the current SP prospects. If the Twins have an opportunity to pick up a prospect that improves that SP roster they need to pull the pin. For a perspective on what a non deal will look like, what an offensive laden team will produce, please refer to TD Game Threads, 2016. It's all the research needed.
  13. Platoon
    I am not anywhere near as knowledgable about the status and abilities of some of the trade chips the Dodgers and Twins are tussling over as many on here are. But the principle you espouse herein is spot on. Take away the emotional aspect of Dozier being a fan favorite, and you are left with this. A player who while talented, has virtually no use in this orginisation at this point in time. Polanco will prove to be a suitable replacement, and in some aspects a more dangerous hitter. Taking what you can get for something you don't need is not a weakness, it's a pragmatic decision. My dad used to have an old tractor he didn't use anymore, a neighbor offered him $1400 for it. Dad said, "there's no damn way I am selling that tractor for $1400". He was right! Two years later he got $800 for it at his auction. Dozier is like that tractor. The difference is in two years we won't get $800, we will get $0.
  14. Platoon
    If we sign yet another DH/1B type, and don't sign any SP of either immediate or very near ready ability, I will tear out my hair, weave it into a shirt, and wear it to a game in protest. Ok, that scenario may be slightly hyperbolic, but it does reflect my feelings on this team signing a veteran DH type!
  15. Platoon
    Definitely a pitcher. I realize the risk is higher for injury. But a good pitcher greatly increases your chances to win games, especially in the playoffs, vs for example a good second baseman. To me whether a specific player is worth more or not is not the issue. It's whether the specific player, or position increases your odds of winning. That's all you can assess it by. The odds. And until someone changes the rules in baseball, pitching always increases the odds over position players.
  16. Platoon
    You are correct. It won't be the end of the world. But it also won't be the beginning of a rebuild to a contender either. Nor will Doziers trade for decent pitching prospects likely up the win total this season. But I do think if you are going to trade him, now is the time. It's kinda like knowing you need a different car, and you have a current one to trade. Waiting is not going to change the need for the new car, but it will almost certainly devalue your trade piece. But I will say this. If someone is of the opinion the Twins are trading a 40+ HR guy, then they have a right to think the Twins are holding most of the cards here. But if like me, the opinion is that he likely won't see north of 25 HR's again, then I get while the getting is good. I view his defense as replaceable, and his status as a fan favorite as a moot point. Getting some pitching, and winning more games will put more seats in the seats, than #2 jersey sales.
  17. Platoon
    I think it's very important for the Twins overall future for Sano and Buxton to "grow" into productive stars. But unless they do it on the mound, it won't do much good. Not many teams make deep post season runs winning 11-8. Pitching. Pitching. Pitching.
  18. Platoon
    It should be noted, that given a chance, I would have been the hands down winner of this dubious distinction! Yet another millstone to hang around Terry Ryan's neck!
  19. Platoon
    Fred Bruckbauer. I think he had an era of infinity. Pitched once, faced 4 hitters, retired none, and never appeared in MLB again. He came in with the Senators roster I think. A legend in his own time!
  20. Platoon
    I always heard that Putin didn't have a sense of humor. That said, there are unconfirmed reports from the Kremlin that he was heard guffawing early on Nov. 9th.
  21. Platoon
    #3 If Brian got by with only one long night for commenting on the sister in law, he was lucky. Some have experienced the Ice Age. And while eventually the ice may melt, be prepared for an arctic blast 25 years from now, in the midst of a heated discussion over who left the garage door open overnight!
  22. Platoon
    If I could end up one solid #3 SP, or above I would be satisfied. The reason? One is obvious, we need SP desperately. The other is a little less discussed. This team has to potential offensively to easily replace Doziers output. And if the potential does not come to fruition, trading Dozier will be the least of our problems. Every trade is affected by leverage. While ours is the Dodgers need for a 2B, theirs is our glaring need for competence in the rotation. We aren't exactly sitting on quite the gold mine many think.
  23. Platoon
    While it may seem simplistic, the path to success for the Twins in the future goes through trading Dozier for pitching. But as big as the need for acquiring pitching is, the other understated need is to move Polanco off short. Imagine if the team keeps Dozier, either for two years and gets nothing when he leaves, or heaven forbid, extends him. That either leaves the SS position manned by Polancos bat, him wasting away as a sub, or worse traded. Sadly after 6 years of lousy play the reality is the Twins are still a team of the future. Any decision made to win a few extra games this year should be a huge red flag when analyzing the new FO.
  24. Platoon
    . Someone on here advocated switching Rosario and Kepler around, I might try that. Either way this has the chance of being a very good defense OF, with Buxton as the key piece of course. Sanos bat will have to carry his glove. His defense is actually more erratic than bad. An elite glove first SS would take some of Sanos deficits away. Someone else mentioned this being an average defense? It is quite possible they were correct. But pairing an average defense with a less than average pitching staff likely won't turn out well. Your mention of seeing a set lineup in place with guys where they belong brings up the specter of Molitors managing style. Will he finally quit shuffling in fourth OF everyday, and playing the reserve IF in left field? And of course the big question? If he doesn't, what happens?
  25. Platoon
    This team has some of the parts necessary to be pretty decent in a couple years. Those parts currently don't include high end SP. they do have some arms in the minors that could make the BP very good in two years also. The other missing piece is a defensive SS. I haven't really seen another viable path to acquiring SP other than a Dozier trade. Trading Santana is actually a subtraction, and I would hope no one would advocate trading one of our better youth. Sano, Buxton, Berrios, Kepler, Polanco etc. Trading Dozier seems the only path forward, as it puts the team hopefully in the right direction on MI defense, and gets us the best arms possible in this time frame. Keeping him, with his well documented streaks is like going to the casino with your retirement money. If the new brain trust thinks they are holding a pat hand, and overplay it, they will end up far more reminiscent of Bill Smith, than Theo Epstein! I wouldn't feel this way if the Twins were a contender this year. But until they solve the rotation, that won't be a discussion we will be having in the near future. Or ever!
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