DocBauer

Obviously, this is all speculation. But I will say that any Yankee "jinx", IMO, is over. Different seasons and different players involved. This team doesn't seem to have any fear or doubts about themselves. It's a long season, and things change for all teams, but if I'm not mistaken, didn't the Twins win the season series against Houston? I don't knkw if there is an "ideal" situation. You still have to face a very good team and win. But if I could write the story, the Twins would play Houston first and win. They would then face the Evil Empire from N.Y. and beat up their starting staff and make the WS, exercising any remaining ghosts of the past.

I think we are on the same page, as are most of us in this thread. There are a couple outcomes for Eddie over the next couple of seasons. 1] He is traded for pitching help. [i don't buy this as of yet due to a lack of suitable replacement] 2] He signs an extension, improvements made or not, and continues to be a key member of the team. [He could always be traded later] 3] He is still under control for 2 mkre seasons and could end up walking away BUT the Twins have the talented duo of Larnach and Kirilloff more than ready. Obviously I don't have an answer or crystal ball. Were I able to write the script, he would sign an extension similar to Polanco and Kepler. The Twins would keep their top 4 prospects and trade from the rest of their top 30 prospects for a controllable SP and make a hard choice, potentially, in a year or two when Cron and Cruz may be gone.

Yes, it's too early, but you and I and everyone already know that, lol. Just too many things to play out over the next month at this point. Including, perhaps most importantly, the strength and health of Gibson. But I am willing to play along! First, I am going to make 2 assumptions. 1] Buxton will be ready to go. 2] A little time off will give Gibson time to refresh and be ready as well. The Twins will go with 13 players, with Cave and Astudillo out. They will go with a 4 man rotation, which will include Gibson. That leaves an 8 man bullpen: Rogers Dyson Romo Duffey May Perez Littell That leaves 1 spot left. My gut tells me Thorpe as a 3rd LH who can fill a couple different roles from long/middle/situational. Graterol is the wild card in all of this. I do not doubt his talent or potential. But I can't include him until I see performing at a high level over the next month while adjusting to the league and the new ball.

I'm very excited about Canterino because,well, I want to be! Lol Rice has turned some very good arms over the years. He's a more "proven" college arm rather than a HS prosoect. The velocity seems to be there, and reports are his breaking ball is good and can be very good. Both should improve with time and coaching. Now, if he can just find a really nice change of some sort.... I fully admit I have not yet seen video of his delivery. But like everyone else, I've read he has a "high effort" delivery that concerns some in regard to consistency and possible injury. I guess my question/concern is, is it REALLY "high effort" or does it just LOOK that way? In other words, if it works, if he can repeat it, if it feels comfortable to him, is it REALLY "high effort"?

Great post Damn! I think you sum things up perfectly. As good as Eddie is...and he's damn good...he could take his game another level with just a slightly improved degree of discipline. He doesn't have to change his game or re-invent himself, just tone down some of the crazy out of the zone swings. Now, at times, those crazy swings connect for a hit or extra base hit. That's the kind of strength and talent he has. But just a few less swing and miss/SO and a few more BB and he just becomes that more dangerous. I think bringing up Larnach and Kirilloff is fair. Rosario is proven and each of them remain prospects. Both seem to have quality hit tools, comparable or better than Eddie. Both seem to make better contact and have a more disciplined approach. I think it's safe to say neither has Eddie's speed. Can they match his 30ish HR power? Just too early to say. Barring a surprise, at some point, it just seems 1 of these 3 will be moved for SP help. It could happen as early as this off season, though I hope not. It is my sincere HOPE that the depth of the system will be enough to add a quality arm to go along with Berrios, 2 re-signs, and roll with Graterol-Thorpe-Smeltzer-Perez to fill things out. This would be ideal, allowing for another year for both Larnach and Kirilloff to become MLB ready and then see how things play out from there.

I am about 99.9% certain I've heard reference to his ankle still bothering him. Without healthy legs, any batter may struggle some. But as was pointed out earlier in the thread, really kind of hard to blast someone hitting .280, pushing 30HR and having 92RBI with almost a month to go. Like any hitter, Rosario will have hot and cold streaks. IMO, it is the very nature of how he plays, and those crazy swings that sometimes connect, and sometimes don't, that seem to exaggerate his highs and lows over others. I don't really like much not to like about Eddie. But as bug of a fan as I am, I think it remains realistic that just a fraction more discipline could make a very good, very dangerous hitter downright lethal.

I want to be sure we don't understate how good Thorpe looked for those 3 IP. Kid has a good arm and a good future. Still wouldn't be surprised if he makes the post season roster as an extra LH arm.

No. They will absolutely offer him a raise and an extension. I believe they will offer him 2yrs, or a 2 + 1 that us easy to hit. They might even offer him 3yrs. He will have the choice of financial security and a fair raise, guessing somewhere around $12-14M per. Despite needs for SO everywhere, the FA market has clearly changed. And past history would state that he is a good pitcher, but not a $18-25M per front of the rotation starter. He is borderline outstanding, most days, for 5+ IP. And I'd love to have him back. The only way he would get a QO is because the FO would expect him to decline and potentially gather a draft pick. I just don't think this will happen. FWIW, I believe the FO will make a similar move with Pineda. I believe they will make a somewhat smaller and "safer" offer to Gibson, especially considering he is a bit older and now facing some health concerns. Gibson is probably more a 1 or 1+ with a possible 2yr offer but no more. None of this precludes a trade or FA option to be added. But I believe they will hope to keep 2 of Odorizzi, Pineda and Gibson on board.

While a big baseball fan, I am poorly read when it comes to many here at TD. And I confess to not knowing Ben Lindbergh, but I ABSOLUTELY agree with his premise on RP. That being saidm there is nothing inherently wrong with signing a FA RP you need, like and believe in. To say never would be a gross generalization and a generally wrong approach. FA has shown us over the years to bring good and bad, at ALL positions, and remains a useful tool to build a team. But recent history, including this last off season, has shown us the volatility of signing said BP options, from a position that tends to be volatile regardless. Reflecting just on the history of the Twins in their "new era"...and to me that is since the Pohlad's bought the team...they have won 2 WS titles and had numerous winning/contending teams by building bullpens, good bullpens, in a number of different ways. (This is NOT about coming up short some years, just a reflection). The Twins traded for Reardon, Aguillera and Nathan. ONE was a proven closer, one a solid SP who had a few injuries and disappointments, and the third was a position player turned RP who was traded for as an up and coming set-up man. Just to name a FEW of the guys who provided depth in those pens you would have guys like Berenguer, Atherton, Willis, Trombley, Gurrier, Guardado and many, many others. Just a smattering of a few names. Some were low level FA signings, some converted starters from other organizations, and some converted starters from within the Twins organization. Some went on to be closers themselves while one, not even listed, was a famous Rule V pick who ended up being a multi Cy Young SP. I say again there is nothing wrong with making a major FA signing for a team's bullpen if you feel good about it. Nor do I feel it is wrong, or a waste, to draft a strong armed college RP or two for the purpose of keeping him and developing him as such. (I think we can all agree that the mad experiment of making a college RP a SP is just that, mad). I think the FO has built...is building...the Twins bullpen the right way currently. I was disappointed, vocally so, that they didn't add anyone but Parker despite an obvious need. Reflection has shown they were right. While Parker didnt work out, initially he wasnt bad. In fact, he was no worse, and better than some, in regard to the FA class available. The FO, and new coaching staff, cobbled things together after a few "hopes" didn't turn out and still had a "decent" pen for the first half. They also worked with May, with Duffey, and were aggressive with auditions to guys like Littell and others. They cut bait when the time seemed right and brought in a pair of proven, experienced arms to deepen the bullpen to its current situation. As has been stated previously in different posts it seems most/all fans/teams are unhappy with their bullpen. Such is the nature of the game today, I suppose. And yet, despite being a spot that needed to be upgraded for the long haul AND post season, augmented by a surprisingly healthy and strong rotation, the numbers indicate the Twins bullpen has been largely effective all season. And yet, said bullpen has indeed changed. Rogers, Dyson, Romo, Duffey, May form a pen now that is very different from when the season started. And while I would not be so optimistically blind to state this new pen is "lights out", to deny the performance and production would be equally blind. ALl but Romo will be back next season. Honestly, would anyone object or be surprised if Romo was brought back next season on a 1yr deal? Brian has made comments in various commentaries about going "all in", or at least going deeper in to building pitching depth. I concur. And while I feel this team absolutely has need for another quality LH for the pen...Perez, Thorpe and Smeltzer could help in the short term, there remains a definitive need for that one arm. And no matter what he may do in September, or the post season, Graterol is a rotation piece to build on. So are at least 2 of the LH I just mentioned. But when I look at those 5 listed, and see the development of Littel, the hope for Alcala, the hope still for Romero possibly, the early returns on guys like Poppen and Stashak, I can't help but feel optimistic they are building the pen the right way.

1] Very pleased by the opportunity for Graterol. I still think it's more about experience for 2020 but who knows, he might catch fire. 2] A little surprised by no Alcala, Hildenberger or Harper. Then again, Rochester still has a couple games to play so you can't bring up everyone. 3] Anyone else a little surprised Stewart was brought up? 4] This news about Gibson explains a lot. It felt all season he kept running out of gas about every other start. Not including just lacking endurance in general at the start of the season while recovering from his initial illness/diagnosis. But I never realized how thin he looked until his last start and a spotlight seemed to be shone on it. Really hope he can learn to manage the condition. I've had similar issues most of my life, though to a much less degree. It is definitely present in my family. And when it flares up, fatigue can hit pretty quickly.

Absolute bummer of a game. Good news: The Twins set a record. Bad news: They lost because Perez had a really bad game. Good news: The Twins didn't lose any ground. Plus, they battled. Perspective: Again, they lost no ground. Perez has looked much better lately until today. Even if a team wins 100 games, they still lose 62. Our 5th SP just had nothing today. He adds to the 62. It's one game. Disappointing, but just one game.

Did a little digging in regards to stats for RP on different AL teams. Found some interesting comparisons, though I don't know if this thread is going to die or not. PITCHER ERA IP AVG WHIP BB SO Britton 2.15 54 .188 1.21 31 45 Clippard 2.47 51 .176 .80 10 50 Harris 1.74 52 .209 1.01 13 52 Duffey 2.74 46 .209 1.11 14 60 May 3.20 51 .194 1.16 23 62 I chose Britton, Clippard and Harris rather deliberately. (Harris, from Houston, could be argued somewhat due to the injury to Pressly). I chose these 3 deliberately because they are on top AL contending teams with reputed strong bullpens. I also chose them, rather deliberately, as overall game appearances and IP marked each as the #3 option in their respective pens. It could be argued, back and forth, that pre and post acquisition of Dyson and Romo, that each of Duffey and May were/are the 3rd-5th option in the bullpen. This not to state the Twins have a lethal pen. But I think it offers up additional perspective just how good Duffey and May have been this season. EVERY RP will allow runs, have bad days, etc. And as has been quoted, it seems nobody is ever truly happy with their team's pen. But look how the Twins 3-5 options compare in this sample to other top teams proposed #3 BP option.

Absolutely agree on a rest for Gibson and, IMO, I feel he is under weight due to his illness and never quite got all his lost weight and strength back. To me, it seems obvious at this point. I think a rest for Berrios is also on order, but more of the mental break variety by missing a turn. I see no good reason...other than a sudden loss in games ahead standing...where Smeltzer, Thorpe, or a ML version of a bullpen game couldn't be done a couple times in September.

While SSS and nothing yet proven, I have been pleased and amazed that virtually every single young arm brought up has performed quite well: Littell, Poppen, Stashak, Smeltzer, Thorpe and now Dobnak. While I feel Smeltzer and Thorpe are still SP options, and good ones, there are a couple nice looking BP arms I just listed. Not throw Alcala in there and find me a LH and I'm feeling pretty happy about the 2020 pen at this point.

I also want to send some praise May's way. Maybe my imagination, but I recall a couple bad appearances before the All Star break, but still did solid. After the break, he looks even better. As someone stated, seems the bad games are always the ones remembered. SSS or not, really been impressed by Littell this season.

My gut reaction, sign him the same way Kepler and Polanco were signed. Could a similar contract be undervalue at some point? Absolutely. But just like Kepler and Polanco, the player is also gaining security. Rosario will only get more expensive going forward IMO. At some point, and it could be this off-season, the Twins will need to move 4-5 top 30 prospects...while keeping their top 3...to add a controllable SP. The system can handle that. OR, they will have to make a move as you suggest, and hold on to Larnach and Rooker...along with Kiriloff...and make due in OF for a season. Said trade also keeps a couple top SP "prospects" in the system for the next few years and hoping they continue to progress, hopefully quickly. I'm not sure I have the right answer. My gut says to keep Rosario and make the big trade. I'd guess Rosario and his agent would have a lot to say about it; security vs betting on the future.

First of all, I still believe in Romero's arm and potential. At the beginning of 2018 he was not only a highly regarded prospect, but one of the Twins top prospects. He absolutely flashed as a SP in 2018 but then struggled some. The biggest issue, IMO, was not affording him more opportunity in the lost season of 2018. But, that's over and done. Considering need, roster crunch, lack of options, I believe the Twins will make an off season trade for a quality SP with control to compete with Berrios to hold a spot near the top of the rotation. Right now, this moment, I can't tell you who that guy is. The Twins have so much depth of milb talent, I believe they could do so without moving Lewis, Kirilloff or Graterol. They have several top 4-20-30 candidates that include INF, C, OF,and SP options for a rebuilding team. Said team would, IMO, fully embrace Romero as a 5th player, without options, that could comfortably roster him and work with him. Such a trade would hurt, but not deplete the system, and potentially reward both teams. I've always said, if it hurts, then it's a fair value to both teams.

A great topic, and FUN ONE! Especially after last season. To me, this seems pretty easy with the caveat everyone is healthy and ready to go, naturally. And a second caveat that September could bring an unexpected surprise: i.e. someone like Graterol could make things difficult, let me say I'm totally onboard for Graterol look see for September, along with others, but I'm just not buying in to him being a difference maker at this point. Players: [13] Rosario Buxton Kepler Cruz Sano Polanco Arraez Cron Gonzalez Adrianza Schoop Garver Castro Pitchers: [11] Berrios Odorizzi Pineda Gibson Perez Dyson Rogers Romo May Duffy Littell Your 25th man spot comes down to a 14th position player or 12th pitcher. As much as I love a HEALTHY Astudillo and believe he is a quality bat when healthy, Cave would be the easy choice. He is a far better player than he showed most of the season until finally getting hot lately. Now, I don't expect him to keep up his currently torrid pace, but I think he makes the most sense. He also offers decent speed as a PR. I'm pretty bullish on Littell as a member of the pen. And while there is no guarantee Perez would be successful out of the pen, he offers a LH in the pen who could assume a number of roles. Right now, we're the Twins to decide on a 12th pitcher, I'm not so sure it wouldn't be Thorpe. I love Smeltzer, but with a good September, Thorpe has better SO stuff. There could be a surprise, of course, but to me it's Cave or the 12th pitcher.

Despite virtual lost seasons for Wells, Wells, Gonsalves and certainly Romero, just look at the arms who have excellled, or at the very least have teased, as you listed them. Toss in Thorpe and Smeltzer, along with Poppen and Littell and Stashak, maybe even Dobnak.

Two things: 1] Rowson did work with him, as if he read Parker's breakdown here. It seems to have made a huge impact on timing and visualisation of pitches. 2] Smalley made a very obvious comment in tonight's game a lot of people forget about. Playing! 2018 was a wasted year. 2019 didn't start great and he may have been rushed, arguably. But with the adjustments made, and playing failing, thjs super talented and still only 26yo is developing.

Pardon me, but how in hell do you not walk a single man and SO 8 and leave down in the 6th inning? Don't misunderstand me, I'm a fan and believer in Gibson despite his inconsistent season. But what in the world is going on? We sweep 4 from a .500 team in intense heat in Texas and then come home to lose 2 of 3 from the Dirty Sox and lose the opener to arguably the worst team in MLB. A win should always be celebrated. We are 78-51 and still one of the best teams overall in MLB. But lately, our best pitchers are Pineda, Perez, Duffy, May and the steady Rogers. Cave and Sano are our hottest hitters. The good: Cave is just not as bad as he looked earlier this year and is starting to look like the guy we thought he might be. Sano is doing what he is more than capable of doing. Pineda doing what I always thought he might do, and Perez maybe finding himself again, May being what most of us thought he could be, Duffy continuing to prove he is a completely different pitcher than we saw the last 2 years. The bad: Berrios, Odorizzi and Gibson are all 3 quality arms. But it just seems like all 3 of them need some kind of break. They just don't seem sharp right now. I agree with Brock on rest. At some point, with the expanded roster coming up, designated starters or full days off, use some of the depth we seem to have developed and rest them for a re-set. Not upset after a win, and watching a winning team having a great season...just...FRUSTRATED that such a good and talented and deep team can't seem to perform consistently lately.

His late signing was an absolute gift considering his potential. Very unfortunate for him and the organization. If you want to look for a silver lining, he should be ready to go by next season, at least fairly early if not almost immediately. As far as his pro career, he loses his initial half season of rookie ball only. Best of luck on his recovery.

Arraez is special. Period. Despite being reported as an average 2B defensively, at best, I think he has held his own, even making appearances at SS, 3B and OF. 2B is undoubtedly his best spot. And he still needs to develop and refine his abilities. But we are talking about a 22yo hitting machine who was in AA this time last season after missing all but 3 games in 2017 due to a bad injury. He needs to improve his defense. He will. He needs to improve on power/pop. It seems that is taking place. There is almost a running joke about how he comes to the plate, surveys the field and situation, and just hits the ball where they ain't. I doubt he will ever be any kind of power hitter. But there is such a thing as "man muscle" that happens with experience and physical development. I think he is in that stage right now, leading to doubles, etc. We are beyond SSS at this point. I EXPECTED Garver to excel, but maybe not to this degree. (Though I openly stated I wondered why Castro was expected to win the job over Garver before the season began). Truthfully, I never expected Duffy to be this good, despite a talented arm. But did ANYONE expect Arraez to do what he has done? I know I didn't, despite being hopeful and following his career. This kid is a keeper! And the best is yet to come.

Duffy was a closer in college. Duffy was converted to a SP and tantalized for half a season at the ML level before being exposed. Duffy was converted back to a RP again. Duffy showed glimpses, but generally showed he couldn't get the job done. We all thought he was done. But the FO, Rocco, Johnson, saw something beyond options. I ABSOLUTELY get why some don't want to trust Duffy at this point. And except for the absolute cream of the crop, there is volatility for any RP. Even the very best allow a run or two or blow a game or two. It happens. I would invite anyone and everyone to take a look at the 28yo Duffy's season numbers...IMO about the time most pitchers reach their prime...and then state the Twins don't have something here. Again, every RP will have a bad day or stretch. But honestly look at what he has done.

THIS! Two seasons ago, Rosario was a 4th OF candidate in some people's opinion. This past off season, some opinions had Kepler as a 4th OF. Other opinions also had Polanco as a future 2B, no doubt, before he made the All Star team as the starting SS. (I am deliberately ignoring nit picking further growth and development for reasons that should be obvious). And here we are, despite a plethora of expectations and just weird injuries and general "crap" about the history of a 26yo 3B wondering who and what we have. And he is not only producing, but producing at an almost .900 level despite an abbreviated and weird start to his season, coupled with a maddening awefull couple week stretch. Perspective is important. So is patience. If you don't see what time and patience is offering up now, then I don't know what else to say.