Hosken Bombo Disco
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Everything posted by Hosken Bombo Disco
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You cited the overall ranking so I gave you the names there. Pitching is more my thing and I am more than happy to talk about pitching all day long.. but we are getting off track.
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See my reply to Brock a moment ago. Twins had a lot of graduations which dropped their ranking.
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It looks like Buxton, Berrios, and Kepler graduated between 2016 and 2017, so its natural that the system would be ranked lower in 2017. Baseball Prospectus had those guys #2, #17 and #60 heading into 2016 and not on their 2017 list. So yeah I still have to say it’s a little misleading to cite just that single year.
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People say things conversationally all the time. No biggie. The original poster said it’s not fair to call the front office literal idiots (or something to that effect). Now others of us are saying it’s not fair to say there was literally no one in the pitching pipeline. That’s all. That’s one way to boil this down. Handshake?
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By “fine” I mean somewhere in the large middle of MLB teams, depending on what measure is used. I won’t try to argue that the system was above average. However I don’t think it was in the very bottom group teams either. Below average, I’m fine with that. Somewhere within the big group of ordinary. But not empty, and not awful. People want to give this new pitching pipeline time to produce. Fine. We can do that. We have no choice, really.
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I’m not trying to argue. I’m pushing back against misleading claims. There is plenty of evidence. Anyone can see it. Things like this have been said in this thread: — “Look at the awful minor league pitching they inherited” — “a list of A-ballers and two dudes who were ok.” — “None of those pitchers are good.” (In reference to Ynoa and Gil, Wells, Graterol, Stewart, Romero, Jay, Gonsalves, etc.) If Gil and Ynoa were still in this organization and pitching with this much promise, we would be gushing over them, right? There was a time around 2018 when Nick Gordon and Stephen Gonsalves were Top 100 prospects. I wanted to trade them both together. The response was “maybe trade one, but not both.” Heh. We are dreaming on these young AA prospects today the same way we dreamt on those other prospects yesterday. Maybe it will turn out better this time. Let’s hope.
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I’m sorry, but it is not baiting to say that the state of pitching in this organization was just fine in 2017. It was not great but it was not terrible. Probably about middle of the pack. We tried to go down the list, one player at a time. I am willing to do that again.
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I’m as guilty as anyone, but we should hold off on calling these “lottery tickets” this upcoming offseason. Other teams are cashing in nicely on them, and with too much regularity, and that’s not how the lottery operates. -
Agree with Ober. I might call Arraez underappreciated, but not underrated, if there’s a distinction there. I would also call Jax underappreciated in that he is taking the ball every fifth day, but he’s not underrated per se. Donaldson’s power numbers look way down to me. I’m guessing Thielbar is having a career year. So the other names I was thinking of were Jeffers, who is an iron man, and Gordon. If I squint I could have seen Gordon as a bench guy, 4th outfielder and pinch running for guys like Donaldson late in the game (9th maybe 8th inning). If the Twins were competitive this year that’s how I would have used him. Maybe next year. Gordon probably cannot sticking in the infield from what I’ve read, so it looks like outfield, and he probably makes enough contact to stick in the show somewhere for a while?
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- luis arraez
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Okay, you are not wrong. However, I guess what stands out to me is going into the 2019 ALDS with two starters. The 2017 team could have at least fielded a rotation had they advanced. For me, honestly, it doesn’t matter who did what or when they did it or why, in 2019. Two starters for that series. I was a converted believer until about the third inning of game two of that series. That’s a big part of where this cynicism comes from. I also forgot about the Kintzler trade when I was typing that. That would have made the 2017 postseason bullpen a bit better. Edit: I realize Dobnak pitched well in his brief debut at the end of 2019, but,... yeah.
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no need to pretend or not pretend because the Twins did actually make the playoffs in 2017 The 2017 staff that made the postseason was, up and down, was much stronger than the 2019 staff that made the postseason. In other words, more playoff caliber.
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Again, I couldn’t disagree with you more. However I will try to be respectful and conversational about it this time I think the Twins had three good starters coming out of 2016 and going into 2017; a good veteran (Erv), an average but reliable mid-career guy (Gibson) and a promising MLB-ready young guy (Berrios). They had some nice bullpen pieces (Pressly, Rogers and Duffey who are still around). They had an ok prospect pipeline (Graterol et al), not great but not empty. Falvey and Levine came aboard with those guys already in place. That’s not nothing. I will finish by observing that, given all the hope and promise and all that has happened since 2016, that the statistic we are using to judge the new front office today is Earned Run Average. Thanks!
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And, we don’t even need to go to the analysts. Jim Pohlad went on air and unequivocally said Yes the Twins were in financial position to extend Berrios and Buxton. That was at the All Star break when the season was already lost. Jim Souhan and LaVelle E. Neal III did a podcast about how the front office viewed this season as an outlier and there was no way they were going to trade Buxton or Berrios—unless they were blown out of the water. That was around the same time, leading up to the trade deadline. “They know this season was an aberration with some bad luck at the start. Anyone who thinks they are going to trade Berrios or Buxton, doesn’t know how this front office thinks.” I think something like that was the consensus on the podcast. Also @bean5302 thanks for the check. If my posts have sounded polarizing, I will try to back off a bit.
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Who do you want to replace the FO with?
Hosken Bombo Disco replied to Craig Arko's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
It is indeed far more difficult to find the right person; evidenced by how Pohlad and St. Peter did not find the right person or people to take over for Terry Ryan after 2016. I can imagine that there are plenty of people who could step in and, given the right tools and access, do just as good a job or better going forward than Falvey or Levine would do. That is easy to imagine. But things don’t work that way. Falvey and Levine will be given more time, which is fine. I just hope they admit to themselves that they could use some assistance or that the processes they came in with, whatever they are, did not work. -
Who do you want to replace the FO with?
Hosken Bombo Disco replied to Craig Arko's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
You are on fire tonight. -
I guess I wasn’t in on the joke. Joke’s on me. But good job yourself by knowing.
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2021 MLB (non-Twins) Season news
Hosken Bombo Disco replied to Hosken Bombo Disco's topic in Other Baseball
Truly a headscratcher: -
Thanks. Always good to hear from someone who watched live and could give it a close eye. I wish the news was better on this night. Maybe just an off night; sounds like his bat will definitely play somewhere.
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I really don’t know what’s going on in this photo or how this stands as a reply to the case presented that the front office inherited some pitching talent to work with. I will repost: “Ynoa and Gil and Wells look ok in the majors. Ynoa's legit. Gil could just be off to a hot start, ala Duffey, but he's only 23 and making starts for a playoff contender... “Graterol was a consistent top 100 prospect, debuted at 20, and was the centerpiece in the Maeda trade. Romero was a top 100 prospect under this FO. Gonsalves was as well, two years under this FO, and then hurt his arm, IIRC. Stewart and Jay were top 100 prospects but not under this FO. “... the FO inherited a good system with some pitching depth.”
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Yeah, I am confused.
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You say that 2021 is an outlier, fine. But what undermines that argument, to me, is the fact they traded Berríos.
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I called it the 2015-2018 window, started it at 2015 because that's when Buxton, Sano and Rosario debuted, and I ended it at 2018 because of the trade deadline sell-off of other players (which we have not seen the fruits of yet, by the way). Yes there was a change of front office personnel in there, but the players were mostly the same.
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I don't think it's fair to call the 2016 season representative of the 2015-2018 window. There were several head scratching decisions made prior to 2016, most of all putting Sano in right field. Perkins was very hurt but hiding it. There were other questions, and then the nine game losing streak to start the season. You can't win the pennant in April, but they sure did lose it in April that season.
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The Twins host the Royals tonight. By the time the Royals-Twins series ends, the Vikings season will have begun. I can tell you how the Vikings season will end right now before it even starts: Anyway, back to the Twins. If you are not still buzzing from the perfect game bid Wednesday night, then get buzzing again already! Joe Ryan's performance called back to other rays of hope in dark times, moments when one thinks, "this was special, this might be happening, I might actually be able to get my hopes up." I am thinking of things like Puckett's debut, or Hrbek's home run in Yankee Stadium in 1982, or Killebrew's walk-off homer before the All Star break in '65 (before my time), or Dozier's walk-off in 2015, or Morneau's homer off Zumaya in 2006, or even the Arraez pinch hit walk in 2019. So get buzzing! Lineups to follow .
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Game Score: Twins 3, Cleveland 0
Hosken Bombo Disco replied to Andrew Thares's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
Also note to radio stat guys: the 28 batters the Twins faced last night doesn't tie a record, since Radke faced 27 batters in that 1996 game? Not sure how you would count that.
