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You are correct based on the article linked below from the Washington Times. I read this as the Rays pay the Dodgers $2M and the Dodgers pay the Twins $6M. The Twins ended up only paying $4M. Washington Times Article
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- ty france
- danny coulombe
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Many of us, me included, wanted Hoskins @$18M as opposed to Santana. Hoskins produced at replacement level and we would also have been stuck with a $4M buyout this year. We fans sometimes prefer to forget these examples. The Franz signing has very little risk so what's the problem? If he looks really good in spring training you give him a shot. What's the down side? Julien and or Lee or Martin start the season in AAA. Lee's wRC+ was 62. maybe he should start the season at AAA. Miranda ends up splitting time between 1B/3B and DH. If they decide to give Franz a shot and he does not perform it cost them $700K to cut him after a couple months.
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- ty france
- danny coulombe
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The non-guaranteed part escaped me when I first saw this signing. Thanks for mentioning it. This changes things a bit. I will wait until the end of spring training before forming an opinion on this deal. Right now all they have done is added an option.
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- ty france
- brent headrick
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Would rather give Miranda the reigns and have Julien taking reps at 1B throughout ST. I suppose there is upside given how he performed in 2021/22 but he has been very mediocre the last two years.
- 279 replies
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- ty france
- brent headrick
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It may have been you that mentioned this last year and I completely agree. He was able to hit when it did not matter. However, his mediocrity does not support the contention that moderate priced free agent veterans are a waste of a roster spot and this is from a pretty darn pro prospect fan.
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Has anyone seen a report on Huascar Ynoa. Would love to see him shock us all.
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- luke keaschall
- andrew morris
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You're probably right but I am hoping for Rodriquez to crush it for 6-8 weeks at AAA and make his way on the big-league team. That would drastically change the lineup construction. One of Wallner or Larnach will still DH but Bader's role would change substantially. This might be a bit optimistic but I will continue to wish for this development because it would be huge for this team. He hits both LHP & RHP and is a very good defender. We will see him almost everyday. He just needs to cut down the strike outs. Anyone know if he played any winter ball?
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- rocco baldelli
- harrison bader
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Granted, he was a great example of a 3 outcome hitter but his OPS and wRC+ were slightly above average. Without looking up his defensive stats, he looked perfectly adequate on defense, and his ability as an above average 1B turned out to be needed. So no, I would not agree he was terrible. He is also one of several discussed here, let's not ignore the originally stated position that all of these players have been a waste of a roster spot. Santana, Solano, and Taylor were all quite good. Sanchez and Farmer were decent too. The only player of this ilk that got a significant number of PAa was Margot. Can we agree that while some of these players have been a bust, there have also been inexpensive veterans that have provided value.
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- luis urias
- paul dejong
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I thought Grichuk was a good fit and perhaps they took a shot at him. Some players are just going to prefer to play elsewhere. Having said this, I don't remember people complaining about the MAT signing and his career wRC+ is 79. I don't think we have any shot if Buxton does not stay healthy and some of the young guys don't bounce back / step up. Therefore, if we are forced to rely on Bader we are screwed and adding Grichuk won't come close to saying us. There is a reasonable chance E. Rodriguez is up in a couple months. Bader becomes the 5th outfielder used to relieve Buxton and also provide a late inning defensive replacement / pinch runner. This is the more likely path to success. We have little chance if the core guys don't deliver. It's highly improbable any of the mentioned options would impact this team's playoff chances if we have to rely on this roster spot in the absence of the health of Buxton / Correa, and production from our young core.
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Which of the six spots were not good back-ups? Margot was bad. Santana, Salano, and Taylor were quite good. Farmer was good in 2023, bad in 2024. Gallo was adequate given we ended up needing the coverage at 1B. Does Sanchez count among these additions? Which players are you thinking of other than Margot that had a substantial number of PAs and failed?
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Does the players split include player benefits, and draft bonuses. If we estimate Twins revenue at 280M, the math looks like this .... Payroll ......................... $141,566,000 Player Benefits ....... 16,280,090 11.5% (Spotrac used to list this but quit) Draft Pool .................. 12,209,600 Intl Draft Pool ......... 6,520,000 TOTAL ..................... 176,575,690 61% of revenue
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Good point on the Astros. I watched that with great interest back then. They absolutely cleaned house and traded away any veteran player that could yield any return and of course they were prioritizing giving playing time to players that could be part of their future. Without looking it up, I think their payroll got down to about $30M. They built a team and sustained that team through drafting and development. Most posters here favor giving prospects a chance as do I. A floor forces teams to insert free agent players even if the rest of the team is not remotely close to producing a contender. We would all hate it if it were actually in place. To say players would hate a cap is a monstrous understatement. I just don't know how we get to a floor and cap.
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We all recognize spending should increase when a team is a legit contender. However, the conversation here was about the relative impact of revenue disparity. KC’s success was not a result of spending because they were in contention. KC was 13th in spending so they did not overcome this gap by spending because they were in contention. You can’t come to any conclusion without looking at how their players were acquired. Their most expensive players were Alex Gordon ($14M) and Alex Rios. Gordon produced 2.7 WAR (good not great) Alex Rios ($11M) had negative WAR. The other free agents that contributed to the team were Edison Volquez ($7.5M / 2.7 WAR) and Kendrys Morales ($6.5 / 2 WAR). Very modest priced free agents. Certainly not what we think of as big additions and certainly not the kind of additions clamored for on TD. Their best player by far was Lorenzo Cain who was acquired along with the SS Mercedes Escobar in trade for their most established player (Zack Grienke). Their best pitcher was Yordano Ventura who was an Intl drafted player and still prearb. Their only other SP to break 2 WAR was Volquez. The sum total of their contribution from free agent spend was 4.8 QWAR between Morales and Volquez.
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The Marlins and White Sox were a long time ago ( 2003 & 2005). The only team in the bottom half of revenue to win since the 2005 WS has been the Royals. It's probably more accurate to say they were all in the top 10 in revenue. Without looking it up I would guess the Rangers and Nationals might have been outside the top 10 but I doubt it. Three teams (Cleveland, Oakland, and Tampa) have put 90+ win teams on the field a lot more often that others via a better model but you are absolutely right in that they were still a little short in terms of being a top contender to win the WS.
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So, why talk about the problem with the other 8 RH hitters if your only concern is Bader?
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Miranda is actually better against RHP and martin has a 1 percent difference in wRC+. Three of their best hitters (Lewis/Correa/Buxton) are RH and two of them are catchers. Which RH (other than Vazquez) do you want to get rid of or replace with a LH?
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I have always been basically in line with your first paragraph. If you have young guys that can fill the role, give them a chance because there is upside and greater potential long-term benefit. As you know I have compiled the acquisition method of every player on every 90-win team in the bottom half of revenue since the turn of the century. Where free agent impact is concerned, lower priced free agents have contributed at least as much as the $15M+ free agents. Cleveland has only had one team with any impact from free agents in the last decade or so. Their 90+ win teams in 24 / 22 and 19 did not have a free agent that produced 1.5 WAR. You have to go back to 2013 to find any impact from free agents. That year 24.8% of WAR was generated by free agents. Scott Kazmir was getting paid from the Angels and Ryan Raburn got paid $1M. Michael Bourn got paid $7M so somewhat consequential and he produced 1.7 WAR. The highest paid FA was Nick Swisher who produced 2 WAR while the two cheapest free agents produced 2.2 and 2.7. So, they got 6.6 WAR for $8M + league minimum for Kazmir from 3 players and 2 WAR for $11M from Swisher. BTW ... I am assuming league minimum for Kazmir because baseball reference list all of his salary as being paid by the Angels.
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It's not that I don't think you have a point. Sure, they could have just DFAed those players which means they have to be replaced by a deadline trade. The cost is prospect capital and paying the salary for two players if an obviously better player is not waiting in the wings. That's really steep which is why is suspect it's somewhat rare with teams in the bottom half of revenue. It's also not at all uncommon for players to bounce back like Farmer did in the second half last year and Kepler the year before. How different did the first half of last season look for Lewis and Castro. They looked great the first half and sucked the 2nd half. Vazquez had a wRC+ of 26 first half and 99 the 2nd half. Jose Miranda was 133 for the 1st half and 93 the 2nd half. Kyle farmer 67 1st half 115 2nd half and there are many other examples throughout MLB. I could have seen dumping Margot to give Kiersey or Hellman a shot given the long-term upside of investing that playing time but I also understand teams not discarding players like trash.
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Were Gallo, Margot, and Farmer tradeable? I just can't imagine there was any demand for those players but of course that's just my perception.
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You are correct according to MLBTR. 60 day IL
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Did I say the Twins were better? No. I said I would not hold up the Padres as an example of how to run a franchise and their record is very clear. I am evaluating the Padres success relative to the rest of the league and they are among the worst franchises in the league over the last 20 years. They had a decent run lately but their future beyond this year looks very suspect.
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The Padres have had (2) 90 win seasons in the last 20 years. Only three other teams with 2 or less 90-win seasons. Their win loss record for the last 20 years ranks 27th. Their future looks bleak with a poor farm system and aging players on big salaries. Who knows Machado could be the next nelson Cruz but the odds are that contract will hurt them badly for 5-7 years. I would not hold them up as an example of how to run a franchise.
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I had absolutely no doubt that you would deflect.
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I think it’s accurate to say most of us judge success based on making the playoffs and playoff success. The Padres have won one playoff series in the past 15 years, same as the Twins. They built the top rated farm system in MLB after being very bad for a decade. They added players on deals that are extremely likely to be boat anchors for a few years. The Machado deal was heavily weighted on the back-end of the deal. He is only making $17M this year but his salary goes to $25M in 2026 and $39M for the following 7 years. That’s likely to be ugly. Darish will turn 39 this year. He has four years and $77M remaining. Joe Musgrove just turned 32 so he’s not that old but he only produced 1.4 WAR last year. They lost two important players from last year (Profar and Ha-Seong Kim) Next year, they will lose Cease, King, and Arraez. Their strategy gave them a short window and it sure looks like they are destined for failure or at best mediocrity for a number of years. I would say this is a strike (or two) against their strategy.
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I saw that you were responding to someone and added some detail.
