TheLeviathan
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Everything posted by TheLeviathan
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This was going to be my first argument against Nick's inevitable Buxton argument. Sano's value should be higher for this reason. We are starting Adrianza if he goes down. That drop off is far steeper.- 80 replies
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- stephen gonsalves
- miguel sano
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And I don't think the counter point about Cruz is at all minimized by that point.
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To add to this excellent post...I don't think power is the only tool that could be fit into this sentence. Put in contact, speed, defense, or any pitching attribute and I think it fits. Analytics have stopped teams from paying for what they don't think can be repeated. Regardless of the tool.
- 80 replies
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- stephen gonsalves
- miguel sano
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It's going to be hard to explain having Sano at 14 and Buxton top 5. IMO - they should be right next to each other wherever they are in the rankings. They are basically the same argument.
- 51 replies
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- taylor rogers
- max kepler
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Correct, I think teams are hesitant to spend big on what they feel are unsustainable numbers. For Cruz, his age will eventually be a factor and it's why teams were hesitant. For Cron and LoMo it was because they were viewed as flashes in the pan. I think the Cruz signing was a good one. I think we can count on him to be productive, but we should also remember that players his age do not maintain their skills forever. When they go south, they'll go south hard. It shouldn't shock anyone if that happens this year, it's why the option year was so wise.
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Well, is it that or is it league-wide doubt about their ability to continue that production? Granted LoMo and Cruz would have doubts for different reasons, but same problem I think.
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I had/have accepted that. Then a hypothetical was posed that made the matter more confusing. Subsequent explanations to me and Brooks have only furthered confusion. That hypothetical, and the dubious logic behind it, are to blame. But I'm done with it, Ashbury is right, clarity here is a futile endeavor beyond what has been said.
- 81 replies
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- nick gordon
- adalberto mejia
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Holy monkey balls Nick. You introduced a theoretical in post 56. Could you go back and read that again? Maybe, just maybe, you can see how that wasn’t a productive way to illustrate your point. I’ll let it drop here, but it’s really unfair to Frame your stance as cold hard facts and mine as hypothetical after you laid out that scenario. And it’s that scenario that lead to this point.
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Please go read Nick's hypothetical again and save your obtuse accusations.
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Fine. Though I'd have an easier time not pressing if the responses stopped becoming more vexing each time. We went from a loose, easy enough explanation to trying to argue in a hypothetical whether you'd take Gordon (a fringe topp 100 prospect) or a dude who just got waived. And it was implied that the waiver claim is the right answer. Now my brain hurts trying to wrap around that.
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What Gordon could fetch in a trade is absolutely better than Cron. That should not be a disputed claim. Unless you think Gordon is worth less than it took to acquire Cron. Do you think Gordon's value is beneath nothing?
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And even if he's not, Nick can't possibly, seriously contend Nick Gordon's value is less than nothing or Luis Gil. Which is sorta what he suggested. So going back to the scenario Nick posed...no one in their right mind would refuse Gordon for Cave or Cron. You'd make that swap in a heartbeat and sign Adam Jones. Or some other 4th outfielder. Or deal for Santana. And you'd come out way ahead. If the FO refused a Gordon-esque prospect for Cron or CaveI'd want them immediately fired.
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Sure! But then Wander Javier being 16th ahead of all three makes absolutely no sense. He will provide nothing to this Twins team. Jay made a great post on the first page, I'd suggest Nick take it under consideration as this series continues.
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Santana from the Brewers was just dealt for far less than Gordon. I get being intrigued by Cave, but guys like him are ST casualties all the time. Arguing either Cron or Cave is more valuable than Gordon is completely unsupported by facts.
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He declined to play for one of the top 3 teams in the league in a better climate. He chose money. As would most all human beings. I’d like to think this is our nail in the coffin scenario for the “it isn’t all about the money” nonsense.....but I’m not that optimistic. Cruz is the norm, not the exception....so good for him to cash in on his success.
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Lofty? Who said that? Shall we review the cost the Twins had to pay to acquire these guys? (Hint: one was nothing) You think Gordon has less value than that?
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Um....that seems like a no brainer Nick. I can replace Cron or Cave pretty inexpensively. Acquiring fringe top 100 prospects? Not so much.
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I don't want to argue about the rankings, I will just try to make sense of them the best I can. But it seems to me that the Twins almost certainly could trade Gordon tomorrow for a significantly better player than Cron or Cave to help this organization.
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All of that is fine, but it does make things choppy to argue the list about trade value for one guy and present value for another. If Javier is 16th due to trade value, then it makes no sense for Gordon to be behind Cave or Cron. I don’t want to nitpick, but this is meant to be a fun conversational piece and a lack of clear method is going to derail it. It’ll feel like some random, dumb power rankings rather than meat for good conversation. The explanations only muddle this IMO.
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Ok...that explains Cron and Gordon.....but then Javier is 16th and none of this makes any sense again. There is no way he has more present value to the Twins than anyone on the big league roster. And probably a dozen dudes in AAA. I love him as a prospect to watch though, but he torpedoes this whole explanation with his ranking.
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Article: Romero Ready to Ink the Pen?
TheLeviathan replied to Ted Schwerzler 's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
Nope - rotation. Fill the pen in FA and let this kid start. -
Yup, FA plays by one rule: Pay the man. Time to do the same for a few more men. Preferably men who pitch.
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I'm happy the team was not content with Austin or Cron as DH. I think Cruz has a huge year. I love that he is a vet with a ton to offer this team. Great signing.
