Doctor Gast

I double-checked my #s & read it wrong. I was only a billion off. :)

Yes, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up. I was only a billion off. That's what I originally thought & then I double-checked & I read it wrong. Still a lot of money.

I am overjoyed! There shouldn't be any doubt that the Ishbia bros. are the ones. If there are others the bros. are looking for local minority partners to keep it local. The original 1.2 billion estimate for the Twins difference from the actual 1.7 billion that the Pohlads will receive to avoid complications, is half a billion dollars. Pohlads paid $44M for the Twins, that's less than what some MLB players get per year now. That's well over $1B profit, don't you think the Pohlads could afford to forego any overbudget cost they constituted (maybe $10M)? Let's stop the "we have to trade a Correa, Lopez, Ryan, Ober, Castro or Vazquez" talk. Let the bros decide how to run the team. BTW, who'll be responsible for this year's salary? Isn't it the bros?

Yes, it's very encouraging when looking at our prospects' potential. IMO our roster is very good with minor holes, where we don't have to plow deep into our farm. Up the middle has to be the focus. Catching is a concern where we'd need a promising young MLB-ready catcher to be a 3rd catcher that can capably fill in for Jeffers to keep him fresh. Or better yet trade Jeffers for another young promising MLB-ready catcher. To have 2 promising catchers ready for when Vazquez leaves. I tend to agree with you that if we have young MLB established players that we can trade, I'd do that 1st. For these, we could use Julien & Jeffers as trade pieces w/o harvesting heavily from our farm. The Mahle/ Lopez mistake isn't that we used prospects. But due to lack of player evaluation & bad luck. I applaud the attempt but frown on the execution. We can't let those mistakes make us gun-shy. We didn't lose anyone that we can't live without. If we have a need & prospects are our only solution we need to make that leap. Again fortunately IMO we don't need to use future-impact prospects in trades to make us better.

On paper, this looks like a great move, a once top prospect for a nobody in the DSL. Cartaya used to be on my catcher prospect dream list. Power was his calling card & defense was his weakness. He fell off everybody's list when he couldn't hit in the high MiLB. Why was he so terrible? Did pitchers find his "kryptonite"? Was it because of his chronic back problems? Maybe a combination of both? Why did LAD pass on Cartaya for unknown Feduccia? All these are red flags. Can Cartaya adjust to AAA & if so how long would it take for him to adjust to MLB? Can he overcome his chronic back pain? To limit his performance & playing time. Can he improve his defense? To the last question, I doubt it unless he brings techniques from LAD & continues to work on them. Can Cartaya become that promising young catcher who can take the bull by the horns & lead? I have a lot of doubts & questions that don't have answers about Cartaya. Now, Jose Vasquez, nobody knows about him. The fact that LAD targeted him, gives him merit. This kinda has a Cave/ Gil feeling. Except Cave was a MLB-ready cOF (never a CF sub that they claimed) & Cartaya is a ways away. Hope for a premium position for a unknown. Cave didn't work out, eventually Gil did. Hope Cartaya can work out eventually as at least a backup catcher. But that's all it is, hope. Time will only tell if LAD can develop Vasquez into a successful MLB pitcher.

On paper, this looks like a great move, a once top prospect for a nobody in the DSL. Cartaya used to be on my catcher prospect dream list. Power was his calling card & defense was his weakness. He fell off everybody's list when he couldn't hit in the high MiLB. Why was he so terrible? Did pitchers find his "kryptonite"? Was it because of his chronic back problems? Maybe a combination of both? Why did LAD pass on Cartaya for unknown Feduccia? All these are red flags. Can Cartaya adjust to AAA & if so how long would it take for him to adjust to MLB? Can he overcome his chronic back pain? To limit his performance & playing time. Can he improve his defense? To the last question, I doubt it unless he brings techniques from LAD & continues to work on them. Can Cartaya become that promising young catcher who can take the bull by the horns & lead? I have a lot of doubts & questions that don't have answers about Cartaya. Now, Jose Vasquez, nobody knows about him. The fact that LAD targeted him, gives him merit. This kinda has a Cave/ Gil feeling. Except Cave was a MLB-ready cOF (never a CF sub that they claimed) & Cartaya is a ways away. Hope for a premium position for a unknown. Cave didn't work out, eventually Gil did. Hope Cartaya can work out eventually as at least a backup catcher. But that's all it is, hope. Time will only tell if LAD can develop Vasquez into a successful MLB pitcher.

On paper, this looks like a great move, a once top prospect for a nobody in the DSL. Cartaya used to be on my catcher prospect dream list. Power was his calling card & defense was his weakness. He fell off everybody's list when he couldn't hit in the high MiLB. Why was he so terrible? Did pitchers find his "kryptonite"? Was it because of his chronic back problems? Maybe a combination of both? Why did LAD pass on Cartaya for unknown Feduccia? All these are red flags. Can Cartaya adjust to AAA & if so how long would it take for him to adjust to MLB? Can he overcome his chronic back pain? To limit his performance & playing time. Can he improve his defense? To the last question, I doubt it unless he brings techniques from LAD & continues to work on them. Can Cartaya become that promising young catcher who can take the bull by the horns & lead? I have a lot of doubts & questions that don't have answers about Cartaya. Now, Jose Vasquez, nobody knows about him. The fact that LAD targeted him, gives him merit. This kinda has a Cave/ Gil feeling. Except Cave was a MLB-ready cOF (never a CF sub that they claimed) & Cartaya is a ways away. Hope for a premium position for a unknown. Cave didn't work out, eventually Gil did. Hope Cartaya can work out eventually as at least a backup catcher. But that's all it is, hope. Time will only tell if LAD can develop Vasquez into a successful MLB pitcher.

On paper, this looks like a great move, a once top prospect for a nobody in the DSL. Cartaya used to be on my catcher prospect dream list. Power was his calling card & defense was his weakness. He fell off everybody's list when he couldn't hit in the high MiLB. Why was he so terrible? Did pitchers find his "kryptonite"? Was it because of his chronic back problems? Maybe a combination of both? Why did LAD pass on Cartaya for unknown Feduccia? All these are red flags. Can Cartaya adjust to AAA & if so how long would it take for him to adjust to MLB? Can he overcome his chronic back pain? To limit his performance & playing time. Can he improve his defense? To the last question, I doubt it unless he brings techniques from LAD & continues to work on them. Can Cartaya become that promising young catcher who can take the bull by the horns & lead? I have a lot of doubts & questions that don't have answers about Cartaya. Now, Jose Vasquez, nobody knows about him. The fact that LAD targeted him, gives him merit. This kinda has a Cave/ Gil feeling. Except Cave was a MLB-ready cOF (never a CF sub that they claimed) & Cartaya is a ways away. Hope for a premium position for a unknown. Cave didn't work out, eventually Gil did. Hope Cartaya can work out eventually as at least a backup catcher. But that's all it is, hope. Time will only tell if LAD can develop Vasquez into a successful MLB pitcher.

Come on you love to be combative. Here you cherry picked on a minor part of what I called intangibles. & came up with that. Sabermetrician Bill James also performed research into CERA, finding that while it is possible that catchers may have a significant effect on a pitching staff, there is too much yearly variation in CERA for it to be a reliable indicator of ability.[1] James used simulations of catchers with assigned defensive values to directly compare CERAs, which influenced Woolner to perform similar simulations but instead using weighted events to calculate pitchers' runs per plate appearance.[1] Through this, Woolner concluded that even if catchers do have an effect on pitchers' abilities to prevent runs, it is undetectable and thus has no practical usage.[1] Intangibles are what they are, intangibles. What do I think of this data? I don't trust any data. Because some people can find data & make say what they want it to say. When my eyes & ears tell me differently, usually they are what wins out.

I'm a Jeffers fan. They announced it at the beginning of the season, Of course, that didn't last long, It quickly became an equal tandem where he started out strong but after some time petered out. I have advocated for the Twins to trade for a promising primary young MLB-ready catcher long before I advocated trading Jeffers. Now after advocating the trade of Jeffer due to the reasons I stated before. Throughout this thread, I've stated that these new acquisitions & Camargo in no way move the needle as far as justifying moving Jeffers. None of them are MLB-ready much less backup.

Plus WAR doesn't justify enough the defense & intangibles which is essential to catching. & he's considered by most here as a backup catcher. His defense including his intangibles is always dependable, his durability plus scoring a few runs here & there & getting some game-winners what more do you need from a backup catcher he's not a DH, defense matters. Good point NYCTK, why do so many hate him, it's not his fault that Falvey overpaid him (I'm afraid when you put money in Falvey's hands).

I didn't say how many innings they caught last season. That wasn't the context. It was how long. Gasper has been listed as a catcher for many years which doesn't qualify him to be MLB-ready nor the amount of time in AAA for anyone else.

WOW, good catch I missed that. That's concerning. To put everything into perspective, Cartaya is now our # 23rd top prospect, he beat out Camargo by a long shot.

I like the move in that it gives us some future depth. Cartaya has had at least a couple of poor seasons & they lost patience with him like they did with Camargo but much sooner with Camargo. I'd prefer Feduccia because he's MLB-ready but IMO Cartaya is worth the extra patience. Cartaya was way down on my catchers' trade list.

I don't care how long they have been at AAA. Gasper has been in AAA for how long? As of yet we still haven't got our 3rd catcher. Cartaya has a lot more upside than what we got but he's still not MLB-ready. We'll see how he responds to AAA here. Maybe later on this season, we sure can't count on him to take over for Vazquez or Jeffers.

I like your thinking that we need a high-leverage LHRP & SD has a need for a catcher. We need these ideas to brainstorm what we should do. But the trade is a huge overpay. Jeffers has a much higher trade value over Peralta & his high salary even if you include all those promising arms. IMO our greatest need is our catching depth. IMO SD will try to unload Arraez not only because of his salary but like Jeffers, Boras is his agent so they wouldn't be able to afford his extension. So your idea to trade Jeffers has merit. But I'd use Jeffers to lure a trade to obtain a young promising MLB-ready future catcher away from a win-now team. I'd also target a 2nd promising young MLB-ready catcher because we also need a viable 3rd catcher. And soon we'll be w/o Vazquez & Jeffers or worse yet, they extend Jeffers to a ridiculous contract. BTW, I'm not a Jeffers hater & I'm not a Julien hater. My opinion on both Jeffers & Julien last year is the same, If the Twins are determined to misplace Julien at 2B (when we had better options there) it's better to trade him when his trade value is high. Last year when the Twins misplaced Jeffers as the primary catcher it was better to trade him because we don't have a long-term future primary catcher who can catch the majority of games, his trade value was very high & it doesn't make sense to extend him to a ridiculous extension or not extend him & let him go for nothing. This year their trade values have dropped considerably but it's still prudent to trade both.

Thanks Nick, for this interesting exercise. Unlike you, I would not rank the prospects as high as you have. If they haven't proved anything yet it's hard for me to rank them that high. I also see you left off Buxton. Of course, I'd love Buxton to play more but even so how easy would it be to find his caliber of play for the amount we pay him? If he was completely healthy when we signed him, we couldn't afford him. Same with Correa, his caliber of talent & intangibles are indispensable. Because of the absence at times of Buxton, Correa & Lewis shine doubt on their indispensability. The more Castro's (who was also left off this list) indispensability makes more sense, his flexibility & quality depth he provides are very valuable. How easy is it to replace him? We don't have him in the system. If you can find him in FA he'd be too expensive. If you find him on a different team, if the team is smart they won't trade him. Just because FO wants to free up money & Castro would be the easiest way to do it (because there should be a big demand for him) makes him less valuable? How would it look if Twins' MVP & All-Star who makes it in your indispensable list was traded? He should be extended.

It was a nice year for SWR, more than what was expected. Martin had an OK year considering what he had to go through as a rookie. Keep him at 2B, coach him better in the OF & ease him in. If they don't screw him over again he'll have a more representative of what he can do which will be pretty good. If they ease him into the lead-off spot he'd be very valuable. TOR & MN must seen something to lead them to think that they could turn him into a power SS. But I don't care if he ever develops power, with his baserunning ability it's not needed.

SD, who I thought was the front-runner for Sasaki. Ownership is going through a serious court case, which'll prove to be an unstable situation. Which could prove to alter greatly the possibility of him going there. Yes the Twins are changing ownership but are a stable organization which will only be more appealing with the change. The Ishbia brothers could reach a deal by opening day!

Varland needs to be settled in the MLB BP, when this happens he'll get his head & his location right.

I really like Eeles & have followed him since he joined the Twins. I'd rather give Eeles a chance, than pick up these fringe players & give them priority.

I'll state again Jeffers is a great backup catcher, at that duty, he's an above-average hitter & average-ish defensively. By nature, he's not that great defensively so he (to his credit) really has to work at it to get to that level. If put in a situation beyond the role of backup, from equal tandem where after some time he tires & his offense & especially defensively starts & continues to wane. To primary catcher where he catches almost every day over an extended amount of time like '22, where quickly his production fell off & his body couldn't take it & he landed on the IL. I'm all for keeping Jeffers in a weak-side tandem. But the image that the Twins has given Jeffers is that he's our primary catcher, & they have painted themselves in a corner by not developing or obtaining a very good primary catcher. Therefore Boras will demand top primary catcher dollars to extend Jeffers & Twins will blindly do that. That is what I'm against. MIL is great at developing defense, they took a reject, Willian Contreras (who could hit but couldn't catch) & turned him into an elite catcher. PHI has no idea how to develop catching, they traded for Realmuto, as Realmuto declines so does PHI catching. Wilson Contreras was a better defensive catcher but on his last year of availability, he focused on his hitting, because people like to look at WAR & hitting is where you can raise your WAR not defense. In his FA he was one the top-ranked MLB catchers. STL was the winnest team in the 21st century. They picked up Contreras believing they'd continue their reign. They tanked- they blamed it on unstable pitching, poor catching, lack of leadership & chemistry. I never heard them say it but you can sum all that up as no Molina. Molina (the main reason for their legacy) is noted for his defense & everything that went with that like handling the pitchers, command & feel on the field not his offense. Wilson is a much better hitting & defensive catcher than Jeffers but now he's not catching.

Jeffers is a great backup catcher but he's not a primary catcher, going forward trying to force him there will be disastrous, As I said trading for a promising young defensive MLB-ready catcher should have been done a long time ago. If we can't develop them we have to trade for them, Longer we wait the worse it'll be. Jeffers will be too expensive us to extend & will be worthless if we wait until his last year & his performance w/o Vazquez won't help either. Catching isn't like DHing where only hitting matters, Defense is the top priority. CWS has 2- I've had my eye on Kyle Keel since his college days, Edgar Quero is a good defender but even better hitter. Rushing (LAD), Jefferson Quero (MIL), Harry Ford (SEA) Samuel Bassallo (BAL) are blocked. CO has 2 that I like- underrated (BH) Drew Romo & IMO the best potential to be elite is Cole Carrigg. There are others but these are the top of the list, Some won't come cheap others are reasonable to very reasonable.

Always take things out of context & changing focus. What MIA got in return for Arraez was only an opinion, the context was that he was traded well before the deadline (BTW I don't think much of Law's opinion). My remark on Scott was focused mainly on his 1st half image not his deadline image. Puk's drop in performance absolutely had an effect what his asking price. By offering a reasonable offer I'm not saying paying his market worth but closer to what he's truly worth. I see overpay & underpay all the time. You'd like all FO have a good evaluation on all their players but that is far from the truth. Many aren't good at it, many look only at stats & completely overlook the underlying conditions & who the player is, many have biases that favor one over the other, some are influenced by hype. And beyond that there are conditions that force you to make deals that you normally wouldn't do. Like the Law of supply & demand it doesn't matter what market you are talking about. Of course, you have the right not to sell when a player's value is low or not buy when a player's value is high but when a player is for sale you jump on it. As always your spinning has spun us off topic, Let's just agree to disagree & put this to rest.

Indispensable- someone we need to hang onto, that'll be difficult to replace. Correa should be closer to the top of the list. We are hurting when he's not in the lineup because he took more time off this last season. It doesn't distract from that. SWR is underrated he was pushed beyond his limits & he remained healthy. He's not flashy but he gets the job done. Jeffers is very dispensable. As a backup, he's an average-ish defensive & above-average offensive catcher. He gets worse and worse, the more he's used beyond that duty. Because of Falvey's failure to develop catching & obtaining a reasonable primary catcher, isn't a reason to think Jeffers is indispensable. Jeffers isn't or ever will be a primary catcher. We need a future primary catcher if we have any hope to compete. I've advocated trading him from the Garver/ Rortvedt days. Because of the lack of depth at catching, I'm afraid that'll be an excuse for extending Jeffers via Boras to an albatross of a contract worse than Dobnak's. When we finally wake up, we can't get rid of him. Trade him now while we still can get something for him. Use him as a trade chip to get a promising young MLB-ready catcher. Don't wait until Vazquez is gone & everything is in shabbles before we wake up. Jeffers need to be replaced. So like Julien he shouldn't be on the list.