Dantes929

I hate season innings limits and don't care for game pitch limits but I do believe you have to build up to it. None of these guys pitched more than 4 innings in a start during spring training. If this were June, I would expect Archer to go 7 innings with the efficiency he showed.

I'm kind of with you there. It's a combination of the conditions, the lineup he faces, not pitching for 5 games and the time in the game. I remember when Aaron HIcks was debuting at the start of a season after a great spring training and he led off against Verlander and Sanchez at their best. 0-9 with 5 strikeouts. Not a great way to start a career. All the good mojo from ST gone just like that.

I'll give passes to anyone on a night like that. I thought it should have been called in the 6th but they just kept going in what appeared to be a pretty good downpour. I have no problem throwing Winder out there but also give him a pass for not coming through. I have noted in the past that some players do well in the cold and others just suck. Same with the rain. Everyone is built differently.. If you saw me play golf with a group of my friends in nice weather you would say I was one of the better players in the group. If you saw me play in a rain like last night you would say I was the absolute worst. I don't know why, but I cannot keep my grip with a wet club. Could have been just the opposite with Winder, but it wasn't. In the little bit I watched when Coulombe was pitching I noticed the umpire wasn't doing pitchers on either side any favors. Tough on a night like that when the great pitches on the corners are being squeezed.

Great thing about baseball is that even as great as those two were, the Twins were only treading water when Morneau went down. Casilla, Hardy, Valencia and a few of the pitchers stepping up made the difference in the 2nd half.

Mauer and Morneau in 2006 ranks way up there for me. Morneau as MVP went beyond WAR numbers. #s 1 and 6 in MVP ranking. Mauer and Morneau for half a season in 2010 was about as good as it gets. Morneau was having a monster season that would surely have gotten him top 2 in MVP and Mauer at #8. .

I haven't been following so closely but quickly looking at the last several spring training games I haven't seen any of our starters throwing more than 4 innings. Are any of these guys stretched out to go 6 innings even on a good day? I am hoping Ober and Archer are replaced by Winder and Paddock soon but before that happens I definitely think we need more than one long reliever for the next couple weeks.

I would prefer Winder make the Opening start because that would mean Winder would be one of the 5 pitchers in the opening rotation. I expected Gray but am fine with Ryan.

I don't feel good that Maeda got hurt. Rotation looks a lot different with him in there. Hoping a couple of these guys are just place holders for Winder and Balazovic. Less concerned with who we would throw out there in a playoff game. I am always happy to get there and take our chances. Never in my history as a fan back to the mid 70's have I heard anyone say "I'm pretty happy with this rotation" That includes the 91 team and especially is true of the 87 team. Pavano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn were called #3's or worse in their careers. We still got to the playoffs with them. I am ok with the potential. If it were a sure thing I wouldn't watch.

Yeah. I have seen it many times starting with Jack Morris. Never works out. Just kidding. I would prefer going with younger guys as well. I don't hate this move. Just don't care for this idea that two more months in the minors is going to make the near ready prospects into ready prospects seems as nebulous as pitch counts and innings limits.

Just go with Josh Winder for the 5th spot. Next guy Balozovic. You hear things like he will be the first one called up or he is very near ready. What makes the difference? Sometimes the philosophy feels like "Hey! This guy is going great. Let's keep throwing him out there in the minors until he develops arm strain"

Not to nitpick but My stats on value were for 1984. My vague memory was that the Twins value around 1970 was about 3 million. I can't find accurate data but since the Yankees were purchased for under 9 million in 1973 I think it is not far off base. That would make the value factor about 440X since 1970 rather than 30X which maybe changes the picture a bit.

Twins sold for 44 mil in 1984 and are now worth 1.325 billion If players salaries had risen at the same rate as the value of the franchise the average players salary would be 9,814,035. I know I am being silly but I guess its my way of saying I'm not feeling sorry for either of those two groups. Average ticket price in 1970 was $2.74

Been a while since we had a group like Slowey, Blackburn, Baker, Perkins and Liriano all coming up around the same time. and staying for a little bit. Would be nice to see it again. I would have liked a Greinke, Pineda kind of signing, but I am looking forward to seeing some of these guys pitch. Never give up on a season before it starts.

Jack Morris in his age 34 and 35 seasons with the Tigers was a combined 21-32 with a an ERA of 4.65. Kind of the definition of washed up has been veteran at age 36 going into the 1991 season, wouldn't you say?

It's been decades since I have looked at either but I have vague recollections of the book being better than the movie. I also remember thinking Harris' first book The Southpaw was better than Bang the Drum Slowly though I enjoyed both. If you are a reader I would read The Southpaw before reading or watching the sequel.

Another part of that opposite side is that while way less than half of all prospects turn into good MLB pitchers, 100% of all good MLB pitchers were prospects at one point. 1991 had one kind of proven starter in Tapani, a good but unproven prospect in Erickson, a couple half way decent vets in Anderson and West and a guy who could clearly have been labeled a possibly washed up veteran in Morris. I'm not saying the young guys are going to come through but its baseball. Who knows. I keep tabs on the minor leaguers because I want to see the development and then see how they do for the TWINS rather than see how they do as trade bait.

No specifics but I feel like League of their own is over represented and Bingo Long is under represented. I don't know how you can keep the professor pitcher from It Happens Every Spring out of the rotation.

I always like home grown. Get Greinke and Pineda and hope for the best. One issue with your 2008 summary though. Twins won 8 of Livan's first 9 starts which was crucial for a good start and for competing through the season. He didn't do too badly after that. Liriano was coming off surgery and started 2008 going 0-3 and had no clue. He was sent down to figure things out and was pitching great by the end of July. The only thing wrong with using Hernandez that year was that they waited at least one and probably 2 games too late to release him in favor of Liriano that year. Liriano pitched great the rest of that year. I remember hoping at the time that waiting one game too long to exchange them would not cost them but of course it did.

Maybe not all or even most you named but some of them. Albert Belle was a monster. Add Ron Guidry who I would put in the Hall over Morris. I am more a Hall of great even if they only played 8-10 seasons. I am ok with very good for very long time getting in but I lean toward great for shorter.

I think I could make a pretty good argument that Jack Morris would not have made it without his time in Minnesota. 18 of his 254 wins and his ERA is a couple ticks higher without his MN season. Of course, one of the main credentials for getting in was his playoff performance in 1991. Carlton, Molitor , Winfield, and Thome definitely get in without Twins time. Morris barely got in and I think the Twins put him over the top.

Good career. .301 with the twins over 6 years and big cog in the resurgence of the Twins in 2002 and 2003. Also got us Boof, Nathan and Liriano so kind of deserves to be in the Twins HOF. No chance for the other one. One of my favorite clips was when he was with the White Sox and framed the fastball that hit dirt 10 feet short and bounced knee high over the middle of the plate.

This is awesome. To me its the Hall of Great or Hall of very good for a very long time. Oliva gets in for the great criteria and Kaat for the very good. The shorter your career the better you have to have been. 3 batting titles should get you in regardless. Oliva has also been one of the best ambassadors of baseball in history. He should get two spots. This kind of makes Mauer a shoe in as well now.

It's really a shame because he was good enough. I blame Gardy for playing him 163 games along with the AS game and home run derby in 2008. He just wore out. The last month cost him both the MVP and likely a playoff spot for the Twins. Then in 2010 he had an absolute monster 1st half before the concussion. 1.055 OPS and a 4.7 WAR definitely had him as a front runner for MVP that year also. Healthy Morneau definitely gets in. MVP and a MVP runner up and a batting title are great credentials but just not enough. 3 MVP's should be enough but bad breaks kept him from that and maybe more. I am a little surprised Konerko wasn't a better candidate.

Nathan was great. Maybe two blown playoff saves to the Yankees from being in.

"Working through revisionist history, detractors will often suggest a desire to have let Mauer walk and watch larger markets pay him more." That is a great line. I think I followed the Strib reporting more back in the day but am guessing much of what I saw there played out on the TD pages as well. If you go back in the archive I am guessing at least 95% of posters demanded the Twins sign Mauer to the big deal and I would bet I am low with that 95%. Of course, in the years after, the percentages of those saying they had been against the signing in the first place came in around 95% also.. Of course for that to be accurate, those posting in favor of extending Mauer never posted again after the contract was signed and those posting afterwards claiming they were against the deal never posted their views before the signing. At the time, I and one or maybe two others were dissenters and were really only mildly doing so. I just pointed out that extending after his MVP year was the definition of buying high since he probably wasn't going to win the MVP and batting title each of the next 8 years. I thought it was a bad baseball decision (they could have just paid market the following year for likely the same amount or less if he had an off year) but a good marketing decision so maybe part of his contract should have come out of the advertising budget. I can also say I never criticized the signing in the 8 years after, mainly because as Ted points out, the Twins had already got a huge amount of value out of him before the extension. With Buxton its less logical but more simple. He's by far my favorite player on the team. When the team was down I still watched because of him. With the team down and Buxton out I lost a lot of interest in the current year. He just brings so much excitement to the team, I would hate to see him go. I was more on the fence with Tori Hunter. I liked him, he was good and more reliable but didn't have nearly the wow factor that Buxton has.