Riverbrian

Not a good idea at all. 1. I assume we still have budget concerns. Experienced talent will come with a price tag beyond the trade cost. 2. I assume that talented arb level players that will not drive the budget out of range will not be available. Trading established players with years of control for less established players with years of control doesn't make a ton of sense to me. So... what teams will offer us is: Prospects... might get some good ones but we are just trading prospects for prospects. 3. I assume that we will need at least 10 starters to pitch significant innings to get through the season. All teams do. We had rather incredible health on the mound last year and still utilized 8 starters over 7 times. It's a lot to ask for to have similar health again in 2025. I predict that we will need double digit arms making over 5 starts on the year to get through the year. 4. Why would you work so hard to get yourself to solid ground and then purposely move yourself to the edge of a cliff. We may actually be at a place where innings eaters are not necessary to get through the season. We potentially have home grown starting pitching depth to take the ball instead. This is where you want to be. This is where every organization wants to be. 5. The reason that any team would gladly trade for our potential excess of arms is so they can get to WHERE WE ARE NOW. They want to have enough arms to get through the season without needing to pick up Dylan Bundy off the waiver wire. Why trade places with them.

You are right It "Ot" to be that. At least I spelled Tartaya and Tamargo correctly.

Cartaya Tartaya Camargo Tamargo. This stupidity tax is the larger issue. Everybody needs to think about this: 1. The organization is in a situation where it can be argued that a .575 OPS Catcher can't be replaced. Just think about that. A .575 OPS catcher CAN'T BE REPLACED. 2. There are fairly decent odds that Vazquez will go from irreplaceable in September to signing a minor league deal in December. 3. Can't trade him because nobody wants him and you can't trade him because we would take a hit at the position. Interesting dichotomy.

Stop making sense.

Riverbrian: Can I have a Guitar? Dad: No Riverbrian: Why Not? Dad: You haven't proven that you can play guitar.

Hey Now

And the Angels thought Rendon was worth 245 Million over 7 years. They had to outbid the Dodgers and Rangers to get him signed and they all jumped for joy in Anaheim. Front offices don't have this down and they don't because it's hard.

In regards to the over pay required to acquire catching. I'm not a farmer but you know I love trying to talk like one. You have a couple of hundred acres of land. Soybeans are paying 10 bucks a bushel and Canola is paying 25 per bushel. Why wouldn't you plant Canola? Why can't we grow our own Trevino? Take the extra money and spend it on a tractor.

Agreed. By itself... it wouldn't be a very serious one in the overall roster construction process. I just have no desire to pay 4 million for a light hitting defensive catcher who plays 70 games if Jeffers stays healthy or 120 games if he doesn't and those 120 games if Jeffers gets hurt is perhaps the bigger issue of those two outcomes. Anytime you have to go outside the organization to acquire catching it is an overpay. It doesn't matter if you are acquiring Trevino or Realmuto in free agency or if you are trading for Basello or Quero. It's an overpay every time after you compare playing time with other positions on the diamond and typical offensive contributions from Catchers at the same price point. I'd rather the Twins take advantage of market prices for catchers by fixing whatever development hole isn't developing at the catching position. Trevino would make me cry.

First off... If you think that I think that 20 games is going to get someone ready... You think I'm an idiot so I hope you understand that level of insult that goes with that. I'd rather not be insulted that way. Every career has a beginning and every career has an ending. Players transition in and they transition out. My criticism isn't based on an opinion of Jair Camargo because I don't have one. My criticism is going to be how the front office is managing these transitions that happen all the time across major league baseball. I get that you don't think very highly of Camargo. I don't have an opinion on him. I don't want to get into a debate about Jair Camargo because I don't know if his career is beginning or ending. I do know that he was one of three catchers on the 40 man roster and this makes him the next guy up. Placement on the 40 man roster is done to protect players from other teams grabbing them so a 40 man roster spot does seem to indicate that other teams may grab him. I do know that Christian Vazquez had an OPS of .526 when Camargo was added to the 26 man roster for some strange reason on July 12 and yet Camargo received no playing time. Injuries happen all the time, especially at the catcher position so assuming Camargo is indeed the next guy up when an injury happens. His beginning was likely to begin at a moment's notice. 20 games isn't going to make one ready... I'm not an idiot. Getting some work in even if it's just 25 AB's is preparation for the next 25 AB's and the next 25 AB's after that. It's exposure for that moment when the next man up is needed on the 26 man roster because Ryan Jeffers broke a bone in his catching hand in September. If Camargo goes 0 for 25 in those July AB's and every thing falls apart... the front office can go get a catcher that won't do that at the trade deadline because they just might need it because the next guy up is going to be a problem. If Camargo produces a .526 OPS over those 25 AB's. There is no drop off in offensive production. Now if JT Realmuto and Adley Rutschman were our catching tandem. It would probably be a significant drop off to rest Adley to get your number 3 some exposure in preparation for anything that is about to come. Let's be very clear... .526 OPS does not produce a significant drop off no matter what Jair does over those 25 AB's. Vazquez simply shouldn't be allowed to hold anyone back. Now we have a thread started that is asking the question would you trade Vazquez to the Mets and go with the youth in house. With as much concern that I have over Christian Vazquez's offensive performance the past two years and I have a lot of concern about that. I'm saying no. The reason I'm saying no is because the Twins have done absolutely nothing to prepare for his replacement. I'm saying that I would have been preparing his replacement already.

Do you think that I believe 10 games or 20 games is the difference in ready? Give that some thought before you answer. Do you think that I believe 10 games or 20 games is the difference in ready?

I'm guessing... there are what? 175 players? or thereabouts in the Twins organization from Low A to the Majors . All 175 players are working on getting better... fixing holes, finding that light switch or at least trying to turn up the dial. All 175 players are statistically swinging back and forth as the weeks, months and years go by and every thing they have done leading to this point is in the past and all that matters is today, tomorrow as they try to carve out a baseball future with that past dragging on them. At the very top of that 175 player pile. Carlos Correa can range from a .711 OPS in 2023 to a .905 in 2024. At the very bottom of that 175 player pile is some guy who is still good enough to be voted 2nd team Atlantic Sun conference. The Scouts, Coaches, Analysts must look into this pile of 175 similarly talented people, with stocks, rising and falling, decide who gets opportunity and who doesn't. I'm going to assume that there isn't consensus on each individual player in the room of scouts, coaches and analysts in regards to the future of each individual player. Sure everyone can see that Paul Skenes and Aaron Judge are special. However down below that elite group is a pile of players where the margins are so thin that a Brent Rooker can be missed and let go for nothing while a Manual Margot is considered essential to the very end right before signing a minor league deal a couple of months later. The job has to be incredibly hard. I just wonder if they don't make it harder. I want my front office to understand that they don't have this down.

Chances are that injury will provide opportunity. He still has the 40 man roster spot. Regardless... I'm still preparing myself for Jose Trevino in free agency.

Staying in the lines of these perimeters. No They must stay with Vazquez for two reasons. A. You will get very little for him. Other than a little bit of money that could... in theory... be applied at the trade deadline, which is nice in consideration of the past two deadlines but may not be necessary. B. They've done nothing to prepare for his possible departure.

I said it last year and I'm still saying it today. Not utilizing Jair Camargo at all last year when he was for whatever reason placed on the 26 man roster was a big deal. Some may say that it was just 20 games or so... what's the big deal? Some may say that Camargo wasn't ready so what's the big deal. The big deal is that the front office has placed themselves in a situation where a catcher with a .575 OPS is not replicable. Camargo not ready? OK... well... he's still sitting there on the 40 man roster. A catcher must rise this year from the system. If Camargo or Cartaya are not ready by the end of the year... the off-season will see the front office spending more limited resources trying to acquire the replacement for Vazquez and that's a big deal. A catcher must rise this year. I would be OK... forcing the issue and living with the consequences. The Consequences are: Cartaya or Camargo do worse than a .575 OPS. The Twins must sleep in the bed they made. Keeping Vazquez like he is not replaceable is sleeping in the bed they made. Trading him and forcing a young catcher into playing time ready or not is also sleeping in the bed they made.

If the Mets will take him in a deal. His numbers will not be difficult to replicate. However... I remain concerned because the Twins haven't been letting anybody try replicate or even surpass those numbers. All Minnesota Twins Eggs are currently in the Jeffers and Vazquez basket. The current price for Eggs is about 6 bucks a dozen. At those prices... It would sure be nice to have some chickens around laying eggs for breakfast.

Buyers Buy and Sellers Sell. Personally... I will never blame them for buying because they were in contention and you should buy when in contention. I'd be more inclined to blame them for sitting the next two trade deadline's out while in contention. I agree with you. This trade is a prime example of how difficult the job is for front offices. Glossing over Povich and the other two players included in the deal. Just using Yennier Cano alone. Yennier a year later figured something out at age 29 with the Orioles. Ironically... he was traded in a package for a player who also figured something out with the Orioles at age 29. Cano alone provided more value while making the major league minimum. Front offices have a big pile of players of similar talent that need sorting for value assessment. It can't be easy. It's why I don't take their assessments as gospel and will always wonder what others who don't get an opportunity could have done while I watch those who get opportunity flounder.

Your very first sentence was easy to understand.

Agreed. If he is too injured to run or no longer has speed because of injury... the stealing issue will take care of itself. But... if he still has wheels when healthy. Let's go. I'm not interested in removing important parts of his game in order to keep him healthy. That has been tried and it doesn't seem to work. Play him when he is healthy... Put him on the injured list when he is not. It's rather simple. Play Ball!

I don't believe that Jorgenswest is saying he shouldn't get a chance. I think he is saying that if the thought is that he is just going to get game action when the score is 8 to 0... that's not what will happen... So just return him. Personally... I'm OK with him getting a shot... I'm even Ok living with some consequences that may come with getting that shot. If they believe he's a future Ryan Pressly. Give him a job and let's start down that path. But... I agree with Jorgenswest. If they think they can shelter him and burn a roster spot to avoid the potential consequences of his utilization... Sheltering him is just going to put more stress on the other members of the bullpen... just return him.

45% of the games might be decided by 4 runs or more. That's the final result of games. What is the percentage of those 45% of games... that are actually 4 runs or more when the starting pitcher is removed and the bullpen activated? Once you find that percentage... the next question would be this: When the starting pitcher is yanked from the game in the 2nd inning down 5 to 1.. Is the game over? You still need that guy who many are placing the low level tag on to post zero's on the scoreboard so the offense has a chance to come back. The Guardians had the best bullpen in baseball last year. Scott Barlow was probably the worst performer in that bullpen. He was 6th in appearances with 63. The only member of the bullpen with an ERA over 4.00 at 4.25. Last in WHIP with a 1.36. 33 of those 63 appearances by Barlow were considered high leverage by baseball ref. If Barlow produced those same numbers with the Twins last year. He would have been 2nd in appearances. 5th best ERA. 5th in WHIP. Cleveland didn't have anyone performing like Thielbar, Okert or Jackson last year. You can build a bullpen with talent from top to bottom and in order to do that... it starts by not thinking you can roster a guy that you don't want to use when it matters.

Low Leverage situations exist. Containing members of the bullpen to only facing low leverage is impossible and therefore the concept of a low leverage reliever doesn't exist. Are they closing? Usually no. Are they coming in with the game 3 to 2 or 4 to 2 in the 6th inning. Yes they are. Does a manager have a pecking order of preference. Yes they do. But that pecking order gets pecked at through unavailability because three relievers were used on Monday and five relievers were used on Tuesday. Who is left on Wednesday and who will be left on Thursday? People can label pitchers low leverage all they want, but you can't shelter a bullpen guy. It's Martha and the Vandelas in the bullpen... Nowhere to run... Nowhere to hide. If you believe that putting an 8 deep bullpen staff is impossible. I'll agree it's hard and much much harder when a low leverage guy can be justified.

Every team has a Willi Castro or two on their roster. Even if the season starts without an obvious Castro type candidate... One or two will show up on all rosters because someone has to flow to the opening created by rest, injury and poor play. In other words... if the team doesn't have an experienced player used to multiple positions. One will be created. Every team has them. Most teams are not paying 6 million for them.... some are but every team has them because you can't back up all 8 spots with 4 extra roster spots. If Castro goes to a static position... the Twins will need to create his replacement and that creation is not a big deal because what Castro does really isn't that unique. You create them by simply by playing them at multiple positions. It's not hard to do. To me the question is this: Is Castro really a good enough player to place at a static position and say... We found our guy. That's basically what happens when you say Castro is our 2B and 2B only. He's your guy... hold off Lee... Hold off Julien. Castro is the guy. I don't know if Castro is the guy that makes you say... Eureka... We found him... Stop looking.

Options are a powerful thing.

The keys are whoever the Twins choose to invest in. Out of 5490 Team AB's last year over 2,000 ABs were committed to players producing OPS with a 6 or 5 in front of the number. For those looking for the juice of our superstars to be the key to our success... I'm saying that 2,000 sub par AB's from low OPS dudes will marginalize that superstar juice gains quickly. About one third of our AB's were from sub-par performers. It's the bad players that kill you. If bad performance is going to be allowed to continue in the 7,8 and 9 spots... Yep... It's the key to the season... every season for that matter.