Battle ur tail off
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Everything posted by Battle ur tail off
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I don’t think I there would be a ton of support to get him in here if the front office hadn’t completely bombed the offseason so far. I understand what you are getting at. Most likely we get 2 seasons of good play out of him and 2 seasons where he is maybe a bench bat or starter 2/3 of the season. What most I think are banking on is him being very good this season yet and and pretty darn good yet next year. I’ve already said I’m so so on this move either way. But I think if it is between this and nothing at all, I’ll take this rather than let them put the rest of the money in their pockets or use it to sign more guys from the garbage heap.
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Your first response said that these free agents won’t come to Minnesota even if we were highest bidder. I responded in kind. I’m not sure where this last response is coming from. Either way if you look a few posts up, we see that the Twins are again in fact NOT the high bidder. It also looks like they dont want to move off their perceived value. So, like I said we will never know if players will come here when we are always low bid.
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The main core is all homegrown guys. And that is a GOOD thing. It's the only way for the team to be successful. Heck their whole lineup, except Cruz has come through the system.
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Maybe because the organization has lied to their fans for multiple years? Maybe because their "impact" pitching signings are the equivalent of a 1988 olds cutlass supreme? Maybe because the sentiment around the league and from their fans is that they are cheap and people are growing tired of it? I don't know. Transparency would buy them some more rope or at least time with their fans IMO. They don't have to lay out their plan. But they should address the fans, it's been pretty comical and borderline asinine how this offseason has played out so far. When they end up striking out on Donaldson now, they are going to have to answer some tough questions. I doubt the TC media takes them to task, but they most assuredly should do so.
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I've been a fan of this team since the early 80s. I'm used to how they operate. What I am saying with my post there is that it is no different than TR's regime. We were told that wouldn't be the case when the window was open. We've seen this song and dance before with a couple different cores of players. I'm also not this huge fan of WAR. You named like 10 players that produced 10 WAR. They are not the reason for the winning. It's the core of the club. Surround them with about anyone that is a standard issue MLB player and you should get that production. Of course they should get credit for Odorizi, Cruz and Pineda. All 3 were crucial to their success last year.
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Exactly. Let's hear your plan. And I don't want to hear you tried. Because results show you didn't. Go ahead and tell us Graterol has progressed and we're giving him the ball. Tell us that you've been working with Kiriloff at 1B and he will be the starter. Tell us no one is off limits in trade talks to improve the club. Use the talent in trades, or use it on the field. Let's go. This core is too good to not attempt to take the next step. If it comes down to us buying low-end dumpster types, I always think it's better to use your own guys. Why bring in old guys that are at best marginal and pay them when you can use your own that at least have potential and aren't going to cost anything? Go big or go home.
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Right, and that is the problem. As a "flier" this is a great move. The problem is, I don't think they see it as that. If they are able to bring someone in that can be seen as a #2 type guy AND we signed Rich Hill? It would be seen as a very interesting move to most of us I'd bet.
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I said it in my last post but I think it’s time for them to come clean. Let everyone know flat out you couldn’t afford any of the top free agents and that you are gonna start some of your kids. One at one of the corners and 1 or 2 in the rotation. Then tell folks you will be working the lines from now till the trade deadline trying to improve the club. I think people would respect them more and would have done the same thing to for TR had they just told the truth and let everyone know what the plan is. Rather than tell everyone how they find impact guys or terry’s famous quote about how money isn’t holding them back and that ownership has given them the green light.
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As for what to do next? I honestly think it’s probably time for the FO to do an interview with the press and let everyone know what is going on. They’ve turned a ton of people off this winter. Let everyone know that your plan is to start one of your young guns at 1b and that there will be an open competition for your 3-5 spots in the rotation and name some guys you think have a chance. Bailey, Graterol, Thorpe, Dobnak, Alcala. At this point it’s obvious we have no chance to add anyone impactful. The FO is unwilling to push the envelope as it pertains to dollar offers to free agents and they are not trading anyone in the top 10 of our system. Bottom line. Just tell the truth for once
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How do we know? That’s the thing I and others are arguing. Make the top offer by 10-15 mill and see what happens once. It has NEVER been tried in Minnesota so there is nothing there to base your statement I quoted on.
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How can Sano be worth less than 2 prospects that low in the system? I understand the controllable aspect, but Sano on a full season might hit 50 hrs, drive in 130 and score 100 runs.
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- ryan jeffers
- eddie rosario
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Boy are we expecting alot out of Ordorizi this season. He's good, but let's be honest here guys, he's a #3-4 starter. If he was that solid #2 guy, then our Front office completely messed up by not extending him more than one year. Even they feel like he is a mid rotation starter. Don't get me wrong, I like him. But he's generally a 5-6 inning pitcher, who keeps you in games. He's far from dominant though.
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Like he already said. Make the highest bid for the guys you want. Not all will take them, but half or better will. Continually being low man at the auction won't get it done. Will some still pick to go where they want regardless of money? For sure. But not all of them will. What we have seen so far is the Twins making a lower offer than what whoever has signed for then being perplexed that they didn't get their guy.
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Ryu just signed with Toronto Seattle has signed quite a few high end guys in recent years. Milwaukee has brought some big names in Detroit, Cubs and White Sox have been in the mix plenty. It's the Twins. It's no one else. Honestly. Quit letting these guys off the hook. Identify someone you want and make the highest offer. You will get better than 50% of them. That is all fans are asking. When the time is right, identify, make solid offer and see what happens. So far we have, identify, make an offer that fits into Twins budget, see what happens. Free agent signs. We all find out Twins were 20% off of the highest offer.
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Could be onto something there. Obviously the south is where the best baseball/softball is played.
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That kind of stuff doesn't matter if you blow their doors off with cash. I can't understand how just NO ONE wants to play in Minnesota for the Twins. However, any time there is a free agent in football that we want, the Vikings have ZERO problem getting them here. That is narrative pushed by the Twins, nothing more. I am not saying throw big money all the time, but if you want someone, give them the very best offer JUST ONCE and see what happens. I bet pretty soon their horses decide they like Minnesota summers and the plentiful alfalfa we have here.
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#1 vs a #3. Boyd is Scott Baker. What was his trade value back in the day? I agree though, if you think you have what you need in your high minors to get yourself an Ace in a year or two, then go ahead and send Detroit some decent not great prospects for this guy. I wouldn't give up a single player in our top 10 for him though. Syndergaard is a #1 type. I would give up 1 of Buxton, Lewis, or Kiriloff plus a lottery pick guy. All 3 of these guys are redundant in our system. Losing them wouldn't hurt us too bad. That said, any and all of the 3 could become mega studs as well. If that isn't enough for them, then walk away. This should have been done at the trade deadline and likely could have been had the Twins pursued it harder.
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No, as it pertains to drafting/developing/trading I will give them credit when one of the guys they traded for, or one of the guys they drafted does something for the big league club. For sure you can ding TR for not being able to produce players. 100%. I'm not saying I liked him either. But to dismiss that the guys that he and BS drafted or signed internationally are the ones driving the success of this club now isn't seeing the full picture either. What I am saying is that this FO is NO DIFFERENT in the way they go about acquiring players. It is basically a page out of the Terry Ryan playbook. Sign washups, make minor trades and rely on your system. It's really no different and if last years trade deadline and this year's offseason don't show that, I don't know what will. Do I think these guys are implementing things organizationally that are good, successfull, will bear fruit? Yes, I sure do. What I don't like though is the same process they are using to add to the core of players they have here now. It is like 2006 or 2010 all over again. Great core of players, then add bandaids and bubble game to try and plug obvious holes. Basically, I want them to take a chance to be GREAT.
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What I don't get here is that the Twins last year had one of, if not the best catching production in all of baseball with those 2 guys. Is he starting in Anaheim? If not, it seems silly Twins didn't pursue seeing as he got a one year deal for not a ton of money?
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Jim Thome, remember him? He's Cruz. Carl Pavano, remember him? He's Ordorizi. I am not saying they shouldn't get credit for signing those guys you named, or having success recently. Most certainly they should get some of that credit. What I am saying is that there isn't any change in the way they go about acquiring players. It is almost exactly the same as previous regimes as of now. As for the coaching hires? Giving them credit for hiring them is enough. I will give the rest of the development props to the actual coaches that made it happen. If Lewis, Kiriloff, Graterol, Duran, Alcala, etc, etc come up and produce here, then they should get credit 100% for those guys. Buxton, Rosario, Sano, Berrios, Kepler, Polanco, Garver, Rogers,. Thank Terry and Billy. In particular Billy. He had a heck of a run drafting and signing some international guys.
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They sure do,. Their coaching hires have been FANTASTIC, 100%. These guys have done a great job for sure. This IMO, is the main thing they have done DIFFERENT that has had a positive effect on the team/organization. I'll reserve judgement on any of their draft picks and guys they traded for until they do something. It does look like it will bear fruit though, doesn't it? As of yet though, its TR and BS guys making this happen. What I am saying is that yes, they credit for those things.Those signings and trades you talk about in the first part of your post are all Terry Ryan-esque moves. Low-risk moves, signing of old boys hoping for a good season, etc. Like I said, song remains the same. Maybe the addition of the things they are doing organizationally with the exact same player acquisition strategy as prior regimes have used will work. But to say that part is any different is 100% not true.
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Like, what "direction" are we looking at that is any different than what we've seen since about 1999? There is nothing new here player acquisition wise. We are relying on our system, as has always been the case. Adding veterans at the end of their career or signing guys hoping and praying for a bounceback. Trading for guys without giving up much for them and getting mediocre performance from them. Remember, Terry Ryan made some good trades too, Billy Smith traded for Carl Pavano, brought in Matt Capps. Jim Thome was signed as well. Twins brought in lots of relievers in the mold of what has been done recently. The difference here is in the type of coaching these guys are getting. They are focusing on new age analystics, spin rates, mechanical inefficiencies, etc more than in the past. Everything else though, the song remains the same to quote LedZep. Prove me wrong and I will eat crow. Right now though, it is the same bubble gum and band aids holding the starting staff together of a team that won 101 game last year. Terry Ryan or Billy Smith could have done that.
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The thing is some are so quick to give this new front office so much credit for on field success. These are all Terry Ryan drafts and developed also under his leadership. Yes, the new guys run a different show and are much more analytical, etc. that’s good I think it will bear fruit. That said, these are not their guys winning right now.
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Been around too long. Expect the press conference in a week or so when the signings become official.
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It's not the actual signings themselves people don't like. If this were looked at as a move signing 2 guys to basically fill one spot in the rotation as a 5th starter, no one would have a problem with it. In fact, I think it would be great to figure on 180 innings from the 2 of these guys combined to make up that 5th role. The problem is, this is what they call impact pitching. This will be played as 2 guys that are excellent and will be mainstays in the rotation. There won't be a trade, not one for anyone meaningful. There is no one left in FA that is better than any of the guys we already have in the system. There is also the more of the same feeling from everyone here. They had a massvie chance this offseason to do something to substantially improve the club with the money and prospects they have available. As it sits, we are stuck in 2012 picking up the same type of guys we did when we all knew there was no chance. It shows fans that no one in that front office gives a hoot about any of us. They care about saving money and being the smartest executives in the league, no balls, no chances, value type stuff at every turn.
