Santana Shines Among Sad Starter Group

The fad is trade your best players for hope. Hope has never won a world series. Ever. I expected Santana to regress without his juice. And a partially torn UCL to finally go. But no. I don't trade Santana..... or the "replaceable" 30+ homers of a matured Dozier. For what. More hope and dreams? 30 dingers is sooooo replaceable, eh? Happens all the time in a Twins' uniform? How has that been working for this team? All these prospects that pan out? Jump on the advanced stat trade em if you got em bandwagon if you like. I personally like a couple long term familiar family players like Dozier in the midst of hope that only disappoints. May is another mediocre starter that even if he starts, will be a waste of innings. Trade some of the hope for actual producing players. Enough of these posing prospects.

The fad is trade your best players for hope. Hope has never won a world series. Ever. I expected Santana to regress without his juice. And a partially torn UCL to finally go. But no. I don't trade Santana..... or the "replaceable" 30+ homers of a matured Dozier. For what. More hope and dreams? How has that been working for this team? Jump on the advanced stat trade em if you got em bandwagon if you like. I personally like a couple long term familiar family players in the midst of hope that only disappoints. May is another mediocre starter that even if he starts, will be a waste of innings.

fad? what does that mean, exactly?

your whole thread is, well, I don't understand your point......

Edit: going back to Viola era. Is Santana much different from Doyle Alexander, who netted John Smoltz?

The strike of '94 and the resulting CBA, ended the Viola era...

The fad is trade your best players for hope. Hope has never won a world series. Ever.

No, but he did pay a nice tribute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMFlJjI_HOI

By the way for my nickel I trade Dozier for a good SP and keep Santana. Then I'd only need to find 3 more and not 5 more.

How has having Santana and Dozier been working for the Twins this year?

Pretty well. They are not part of the problem.

Keeping "long term familiar family faces", even though they are clearly at their peak trade value is how you end up with a guy like Glen Perkins.

Or Kirby Puckett until he is done. One or two teammates. Not utilizing prospects to trade at the peak of their hope and dreams value is how you get nothing for what are already redundancies like an Arcia ... or perhaps Buxton before it is over. Danny Santana and Vargas had value once. What a fail signing old man Trumbo was. It is always a good mix that become winners.

Read through all the posts, and fully understand both sides of the aisle. Can't say I disagree with either side either. I'm not so much straddling the fence as trying to examine this team as well as the future.

Yes this team has been disappointing, often terrible to watch... except for a 2 month stretch... and could lose 100 games. And yes, there have been some frustrating and head scratching moves. But to really examine what is best for the team moving forward, while examing this season in proper retrospect. And to do so, we have to accept two things;

1} despite our frustrations and disappointments of 5 of the past 6 years, we have to examine this season on its own merits. We have to do so as Ryan is gone, and while we don't know what front offices or sweeping changes could yet happen within the organization, things are changing. (Hopefully for the better) But also...

2} The rebuild and youth movement everyone speaks of HAS begun. Albeit, some of the young talent hasn't performed as expected or hoped, and their are questions about the field staff. But Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Sano, Polanco, Vargas, Berrios, Duffey and others have been up and given chances, and will, presumably, get more. And there have been some fine performances in AAA and AA of prospects that seem very close.

Again, there are concerns about how the ML field staff and some of the milb field staffs have helped develop and prepare some of these prospects, but that is an entirely different discussion.

So, changes are coming and have begun. The team has gotten much younger, will get younger still, presumably, and THIS 90+ loss team IS different than previous 90 loss teams. (Despite some of the same shortcomings) SO what is best going forward for this team?

I don't have a problem shopping both Dozier and Santana to see what you can get for them. You'd be foolish not to do so! If Santana could bring back another Mejia or better, you're probably better of making said move. IF. Otherwise, you have a solid veteran ML starter on a decent contract for 2 years to solidify one rotation spot. If Dozier could bring back a legitimate #2, still fairly young and cost controlled SP, or a top, top prospect ready, you have to consider that move.

But consider Dozier's power and offensive ability, (and i like the adjustments he's made this season), it's not as easy to replace him as just plugging Polanco in to 2B. Now you need another infielder to your roster for additional depth and competition.

Again, I think you shop both, see what you can get, and if it makes enough sense you move either or both of them. But...and I'm not saying the Twins are suddenly an automatic playoff candidate...I believe it may be more prudent, especially if a new staff is in place, to "anchor" your rotation with Santana and a healthy Gibson, while rolling with Berrios, May, Mejia and possibly Duffey. Gonsalves looks like he might be ready at some point in 2017. Picture the lineup with Dozier, Polanco or A healthy Escobar at SS and the other a nice utility player, along with continued development from Rosario, Buxton, Kepler, Sano and others.

This is a long winded way of saying I don't have an exact answer. And like everyone else, I'm tired of losing, and tired of waiting until next year. But taking a step back and focusing on this season alone, changes ARE happening on the field and in the front office. (Again, hopefully good changes in the FO). And I guess I'm of the opinion that unless you can pick up a really, really good and immediate rotation piece, I think the Twins are better off keeping both guys, at least initially, and continuing to work with and keep introducing the young talent around them.

I'm told he lived on this planet about 2000 years ago or so.

Merlin?

Does it matter if they are "better" next year? Really?

 

go young, like in 1982....

Not next year, the next 5. It's not beyond the realm of possibility that sano is at our close to his peak. If we get Dozier like production from Sano we'll be ecstatic right? Or we got Dozier like production from Dozier. For a little while... right now Dozier is much more useful. Next year probably. The year after probably. 3 through 5 meh.

So what if Dozier can only bring back a Mike Fiers, but Sano can bring the next Arrietta. Then who do you deal?

Keeping "long term familiar family faces", even though they are clearly at their peak trade value is how you end up with a guy like Glen Perkins.

Kershaw is always at peak trade value. Should he be traded. How about Trout? Altuve? Votto. Etc. I get the idea, just not the results. Twins luck may change with Ryan gone.