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    Get To Know 'Em: Future Twin "PTBNL"


    Jeremy Nygaard

    There was no Twins game last Thursday, but there was still activity at 1 Twins Way as the team completed a trade with the Padres. Heading to San Diego was Taylor Rogers, Brent Rooker and a whole bunch of cash. Coming back to Minneapolis was Chris Paddack, Emilio Pagan and the always interesting “player to be named later.”

     

    Image courtesy of Could Adrian Morejon be the mystery player? (Tim Heitman-USA TODAY Sports)

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    So far - and understandably so - there has been very little information released on the future mystery player aside from one tweet from Darren “Doogie” Wolfson. 

    Anything beyond that is complete speculation. 

    But speculation can be fun, so let’s take a closer look at who the Twins might be adding in the next few weeks.

    To give me an idea of players who might be included, I plugged the trade into Baseball Trade Values. Obviously, this isn't an exact science, but it’s probably the least biased way to come up with a list of names.

    Plugging in the trade as it happened, the simulator had the Twins giving up 4.9 more value points than it received. The potential inclusion of any of the Padres top prospects would tip the scale heavily in the Twins favor, but there are a number of prospects in the next tier who could make sense as this “player to be named later.”

    Typically, when a trade like this occurs, the teams agree to a list of players and conditions. It could be as simple as having six names on a list and the Twins get to pick one name off of that list on May 1. It could be something more complex. It could be - and this case might be - something that makes a whole lot of sense.

    Let’s take a look at some names that may be on that list. And why the Twins may want them. Ranked from least likely to most likely to be a Twin, in my opinion. 

    Joshua Mears, Outfield. Ranked in the system’s Top 10 by both MLB.com and Baseball America, Mears was drafted in 2019. His power is his calling card. He already has two home runs in three games this season in high-A, but has struck out in eight of his twelve at bats. As the top-rated prospect on my list and - in my opinion - the likelihood that the Twins prefer pitching, I think the chances of Mears being the player is small.

    Samuel Zavana, Outfield. Zavana checks in on BA’s list at #12, but missed MLB.com’s. Zavala fits the profile of what the Twins like with a scouting report that includes things like “regarded as one of the best pure hitters” in his signing class and having “long possessed a knack for finding the barrel.” The 17-year-old would make a ton of sense. But in trying to sleuth this out, Zavala will be playing in the complex league this year, so the Twins won't even get a chance to scout him between now and then. So if it were to be him, why not just include him in the original deal?

    Victor Acosta, Shortstop. Acosta, like Zavana, will be playing in a complex league this summer. Ranked #11 by MLB and #12 by BA, I put Acosta a notch above Zavana because he has more defensive value. But, again, if you can’t see him in the next month, wouldn’t you have wanted to get him into your complex as soon as possible?

    Robert Gasser, Pitcher. Gasser is ranked #9 on both sites after being selected in the Competitive Balance, B Round in the 2021 draft. After getting 15 innings of pro ball under his belt last year, Gasser, a lefty, made his High-A debut last week. It was brutal. Four walks, four hits, seven outs. I don’t think a single game is a reason the Twins wouldn’t trade for him though, I think it’s because the Padres would be less likely to include him on the list.

    The next guy is a complete wild-card who technically fits Doogie’s profile.

    Adrian Morejon, Pitcher. Morejan, 23, is a highly-regarded Cuban left-hander who is recovering from Tommy John surgery. He’s a “non-roster” guy because he’s on the 60-day Injured List, so he wouldn’t require a 40-man move. Morejan has 16 games of MLB experience under his belt and spent the last five seasons ranked in Baseball America’s Top 100. While not expected to return to the mound until later this season, it’s been a year since his surgery. Being a PTBNL could just be a way of giving the Twins a chance to get a greater feel of how his recovery is going. Remember, this trade all came together very quickly.

    For what it's worth, even though there are over 100 potential players for this to be, I’d bet on it being one of these three over the field. Full disclosure: I like taking long odds. It’s not often successful.

    Victor Lizarraga, Pitcher. Signed out of Mexico last year and ranked #13 by MLB and #15 by BA, Lizarraga is pitching in Low-A ball at 18 this year. He would make a ton of sense as a lottery ticket in a trade such as this. He’s a fastball/curveball/changeup pitcher with shaky command.

    Kevin Kopps, Pitcher. Kopps, currently in AA, ranks #14 on BA’s list and  #16 on MLB’s list. Drafted in the 3rd round last year, Kopps spread his 14 ⅔ innings over three levels, striking out 22 and notching three saves. Kopps is serving as a closer using one big weapon: a breaking ball that has been nearly unhittable. Some call it a cutter, some call it a slider. Baseball America calls it the best slider in the system. The Twins, if I had to guess, would deploy whatever it is in the same way they used Sergio Romo’s and Tyler Clippard’s sliders. Kopps, who turns 25 soon, has Tommy John in his rearview and could soon be a bullpen option for whatever team he is on.

    Jarlin Susana, Pitcher. Susana is ranked #18 by MLB.com and the just-turned-18-year-old has an impressive and imposing 6’ 6”, 235-pound frame. Signed in January by the Padres for $1.7 million, Susana has a big-time fastball that can touch 100 and a slider that is next best pitch (among the four he throws). So what separates him from the other complex league pitchers? Because of when he signed, he can’t be traded until later this month. ? Maybe it’s a coincidence. Or maybe Susana is the player to be named later.

    (The Padres also added many other international free agents in mid-January who become eligible to be traded later this month. Among them are two 16-year-old infielders, Yendry Rojas and Rosman Verdugo. Neither are as highly regarded as Susana, though. Rojas, from Cuba, is a very good hitter with decent size (6' 1", 190) and speed and Verdugo, from Mexico, was considered the top prospect from Mexico.)

    What do you think? Who do you prefer?

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    SD not giving back a top prospect as already gave up a starter (they could now use) and a decent bullpen arm. 

    Likely a very young guy or an older prospect to clear room in their system for up and comers. 

    Morejon would make some sense as he has not stayed healthy... lottery ticket with upside. 

    Big young arms or older ones with 2 pitch ability for the pen would also make sense.. to many options to actually have a clue... but my shot in the dark... 

    but... old guys that fit... 

    Steven Wilson 27... 

    Ray Kerr... LHP actually would make a bunch of sense for bullpen.. 

    Young guys.. 

    Susana would make sense and be a great get... !!

    Jagger Haynes.. LHP.. coming back from TJ.. projectable project... 

     

     

    11 hours ago, Jeremy Nygaard said:

    From Rosenthal's latest piece, he says "the Twins estimate the value of the player they will get from the group they are considering to be $2 million-plus."

    Impossible to say how specific players are valued, but I can't imagine a prospect outside of the Top 20(ish) would be described as a $2-million plus player. That's a Top 35-type pick in the draft.

    Pretty sure that's a 40 FV.... So, if you went to Fangraphs, you'd look for prospects with that FV. 

    13 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

    Pretty sure that's a 40 FV.... So, if you went to Fangraphs, you'd look for prospects with that FV. 

    I feel pretty confident that the three I mention as most likely to be included are all in the 40 FV range, without seeing their updated ranking. Lizarraga is a 45 on MLB and Kopps and Susana are both 40, though they don't distinguish between 40 and 40+ like Fangraphs.

    17 minutes ago, Mike Sixel said:

    Fangraphs has not updated their ranking for the Padres yet, probably because one of their prospect guys is in the twins front office as of a month ago..  

    And now we know why it is a PTBNL.  They are waiting for Fangraphs to be updated. ?

    Seems like good news if Ken's comment about $2 million+ valuation (and so 40 FV) is true.  Last year's Fangraphs list has their 10-25 prospects all at 40 FV, so seems reasonable that they found roughly 6 prospects to have on the list in that range as options.

    1 hour ago, Mike Sixel said:

    I'm not at my computer, so it could be 35.... I'll check and update this.

    For batters, it is the 40FV. For pitchers, it is on the fence between 40 and 45.....so, 40+.

    Nice! I'm sticking with my three. All of which would be good gets.

    1 hour ago, Jeremy Nygaard said:

    Nice! I'm sticking with my three. All of which would be good gets.

    Susana makes the most sense to me, if he literally can't be traded for a while.

    Also, if there is any contingency aspect to the eventual choice of player, today's start by Paddack serves to bump up the quality of our mystery player by some tiny increment.

    8 minutes ago, ashbury said:

    Susana makes the most sense to me, if he literally can't be traded for a while.

    Also, if there is any contingency aspect to the eventual choice of player, today's start by Paddack serves to bump up the quality of our mystery player by some tiny increment.

    Susana "signed" on January 15 at the opening of the IFA window. I'm guessing the official signing took place some days after, assuming he was brought to San Diego for a physical. He's prohibited from being traded for 90 days from the day the pen hit the paper, so we're looking at probably sometime next week at the earliest.

    Great piece and interesting discussion.  Trying to piece a few clues together, it seems in the past when the PTBL is just a throw in, you hear the beat writers report that the player is nothing special.  We’ve not heard that with this PTBL, so it should be something.  Couple that with the Rosenthal comments of the value being “2 million plus”, and it’s definitely worth trying to parse out who it might be. Looking on the Baseball Trade Values site, here are some listed values:

    Susana RHP 2.9 (Keith Law: honorable mention)

    Gasser LHP 2.4 (Keith Law: #9)

    Acosta SS 2.4 (Law #11)

    Rosario 2B 2.4 (Law#15)

    Lizarraga RHP 1.9 (Law#14)

    Kopps RHP 1.9 (Law#19)

    Morejon is 6.6 and is listed on the Padres 40-man roster, so I don’t see how he could be the guy.

    Rosenthal also suggests they are selecting from a group of players.  Now, maybe the Padres gave them six names to choose from, but isn’t it possible that Minnesota told SD to pick 12 guys that are off limits, and Minnesota could choose anyone from the rest of their system?

    One player not mentioned so far that might fit the bill:  24 year old “funky” LHP Ethan Elliott.  He’s reached AA, and is listed in Law’s honorable mentions.  He went to a small college in Tennessee, and in his college and early minors career, posted consistently good K/9 numbers, exceptional BB/9 numbers, and also has limited H/9 and HR/9.  He had a 40FV on Fangraphs in 2021, and he’s listed on the Baseball Trade Values page as 2.1 in value.

    Seems to match up with a lot of the criteria.  Probably would prefer Gasser or Susana, but Elliott looks intriguing.

    Baseball America just released their updated Top 30.

    13) Kevin Kopps

    14) Jarlin Susana

    15) Victor Lizarraga

    2 hours ago, AlwaysinModeration said:

     

    One player not mentioned so far that might fit the bill:  24 year old “funky” LHP Ethan Elliott.  He’s reached AA, and is listed in Law’s honorable mentions.  

     

    Elliott could certainly end up being the guy. Like you said, he's "funky" and the Twins focus has been more on guys with sliders (which pushes Kopps and Susana up my list). Lizarraga isn't a slider guy, but he's still very young.

    On 4/12/2022 at 10:14 PM, Jeremy Nygaard said:

    From Rosenthal's latest piece, he says "the Twins estimate the value of the player they will get from the group they are considering to be $2 million-plus."

    Impossible to say how specific players are valued, but I can't imagine a prospect outside of the Top 20(ish) would be described as a $2-million plus player. That's a Top 35-type pick in the draft.

    Just to be clear, $2 mil is the recommended bonus/slot for the #35 pick but that isn't really reflective of the player's value.

    Fangraphs estimated the #35 pick to be worth $8.8 mil in 2019

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/an-update-on-how-to-value-draft-picks/

    A couple years ago, Fangraphs pegged the value of a 40 FV position player prospect at $2 mil:

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/putting-a-dollar-value-on-prospects-outside-the-top-100/

    That fits with Baseball Trade Values pegging Rooker at $1.9 mil in this deal.

    They also estimated a 40+ FV pitcher at $3 mil, and a 40 FV pitcher at $1 mil.

    So one way to look at it, we might just be exchanging Rooker for someone younger or a better positional fit for us.

    7 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

    A couple years ago, Fangraphs pegged the value of a 40 FV position player prospect at $2 mil:

    https://blogs.fangraphs.com/putting-a-dollar-value-on-prospects-outside-the-top-100/

    That fits with Baseball Trade Values pegging Rooker at $1.9 mil in this deal.

    They also estimated a 40+ FV pitcher at $3 mil, and a 40 FV pitcher at $1 mil.

    So one way to look at it, we might just be exchanging Rooker for someone younger or a better positional fit for us.

    It will be interesting to see how the Padres prospects are graded when Fangraphs releases their list. I don't want to use another list to compare because that's apples and oranges, but based on how the Padres use a lot of their prospects in deals, I have to guess they don't have a ton of pitchers that rank higher than 40+ or hitters that are higher than 40 FV. 

    That said, Kevin Goldstein - as I posted in today's video - was high on Susana when he was still at Fangraphs. I don't see any way he's higher than a 40 or 40+. Didn't look too much, but IFAs usually take awhile to go above 40.

    11 minutes ago, Jeremy Nygaard said:

    It will be interesting to see how the Padres prospects are graded when Fangraphs releases their list. I don't want to use another list to compare because that's apples and oranges, but based on how the Padres use a lot of their prospects in deals, I have to guess they don't have a ton of pitchers that rank higher than 40+ or hitters that are higher than 40 FV. 

    That said, Kevin Goldstein - as I posted in today's video - was high on Susana when he was still at Fangraphs. I don't see any way he's higher than a 40 or 40+. Didn't look too much, but IFAs usually take awhile to go above 40.

    Fangraphs has an international board that already lists Susana at 40+ -- that may be why BTV is pegging his median surplus value at $2.9 mil:

    https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/international-players/summary?sort=-1,1&type=0&pg=0&pageitems=10000000000000&q=Susana

    Fangraphs also listed him as the #1 international pitcher (non-NBP amateur), as did MLB Pipeline. His $1.7 mil bonus was the highest for any pitcher in the class, and ~14th highest overall, I think.

    If Susana was the guy, or was available on a list for the Twins to select, I don't know if I would describe this PTNBL as Wolfson and Rosenthal have done so far. He's not really a normal 40+ FV prospect.

    Although you are right that the Padres have been aggressive in trades.

    14 minutes ago, Otto von Ballpark said:

    Fangraphs has an international board that already lists Susana at 40+ -- that may be why BTV is pegging his median surplus value at $2.9 mil:

    https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/international-players/summary?sort=-1,1&type=0&pg=0&pageitems=10000000000000&q=Susana

    Fangraphs also listed him as the #1 international pitcher (non-NBP amateur), as did MLB Pipeline. His $1.7 mil bonus was the highest for any pitcher in the class, and ~14th highest overall, I think.

    If Susana was the guy, or was available on a list for the Twins to select, I don't know if I would describe this PTNBL as Wolfson and Rosenthal have done so far. He's not really a normal 40+ FV prospect.

    Although you are right that the Padres have been aggressive in trades.

    Lizarraga was the #1 (non-Cuban) pitcher on MLB.com the year prior. He debuted as a 35+ on the Padres board last year. That demographic has such a high probability of failure, I can easily see it being where the PTBNL comes from. And the 90-day prohibition of being traded makes sense for Susana too. It could also be that it doesn't have to make any sense. It could be someone the prospect lists like, it could be someone it doesn't. Either way, it's fun to talk about.




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