Twins coaching staff and front office meeting today

[johnnydakota]

Honestly, I don't think many people on here understand just how much of a business baseball is. They see it as a game, one they want their team to win, money be damned.

 

Case in point:

"They get 25MM for free next year." You mean the business found new income that will earn them 25MM more next year? Does your company get crushed for not dumping every new revenue stream into R&D? Mine sure doesn't, they run the business in the most profitable way possible and give the customer the best product available. So do the Twins.

 

Take a look at other teams stadiums.....Lots of empty seats,if you dont reinvest in your product, soon you wont be able to give it away for free.To the credit or ignorance of the fans , we continue to support our team. For how long, that depends on ownership and management....For me, i will be a life long Twins fan, I have sat in the dome during a day game where they shipped in 5,000 kids from school and attendence was only 6,000.

I have sat in left field where there was only 12,000 to 15,000 fans on a weekend night game.I was there for Cals 3,000 hit , And i caught 2 ground rule doubles off of Matt Lawtons bat in the same game.So i support the team , my point is how long will other more casual fans support 90 loss seasons or no championships..If its a business, then we all know it takes money to make money...

[Joe A. Preusser]

Do you even know what a "C prospect" is?

 

Well, I assumed it referred to 3rd tier, or is that too logical?

[Joe A. Preusser]

I was referring to the game day posts (in game) where every one chats during the game.

 

That may be the worst source in the history of sources.

[johnnydakota]

That may be the worst source in the history of sources.

 

Gee if a bunch of morons like us can see a pitcher is struggling and needs to be pulled, what does that make Gardenhire and Anderson....

[ThePuck]

Have you seen next years free agents? I hope they don't spend that much on them. The group is horrid outside of Cano.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that evaluation, especially if some teams don't exercise options on players, but do you think FA classes are going to get better any time soon? In any event, it doesn't much matter, because he likely won't outbid (or, in Mr. Ryan speak overspend) on the better players any way.

[cmathewson]

So spending = winning?

 

One page ago, you said this:

"The Dodgers and Angels say Hi. Point is, you can't draw a line of causation between spending and product."

 

No, but they will have to spend more money in the offseason if they expect to win. That doesn't mean they will win if they spend the money. It just increases their odds of winning (assuming they spend their money wisely).

[cmathewson]

Have you seen next years free agents? I hope they don't spend that much on them. The group is horrid outside of Cano.

 

I like some of the pitchers. I think they will concentrate on that.

[IdahoPilgrim]

I don't think I've seen anyone make the argument that payroll hasn't gone up at TF. Nor that the Twins should have payrolls similar to the Yankees or Dodgers.

 

There has been plenty of discussion about what the Twins payroll could--or even should--be. Justifiable discussion IMO.

 

Sorry, Chief, this wasn't all aimed at you - actually none of it was. It was just a convenient post on which to springboard what I wanted to say. I was in a hurry this morning before I headed out to the gym, so I didn't spend the time to word this correctly.

 

I have seen that argument made regarding payroll at Target Field vs Dome, if not in this thread than in similar ones - same way with the Dodgers/Yankees linking, and how it feeds into the "payroll equals success" meme I've seen elsewhere. Actually, I've gotten tired of that whole debate.

[cmb0252]

I'm not sure I agree with that evaluation, especially if some teams don't exercise options on players, but do you think FA classes are going to get better any time soon? In any event, it doesn't much matter, because he likely won't outbid (or, in Mr. Ryan speak overspend) on the better players any way.

 

Top bats:

Cano, Ellsbury, Shoo, Pence, Beltran, McCann, Granderson, Cruz. All the top bat at positions we don't need, out side of Cano, who we won't sign.

 

Top pitchers:

Kuroda (39), Burrnet (37), Garza (Twins traded away), Lincy (who might be done as a starter), Josh Johnson (always injured), Halladay (old, injured, and has looked horrid when healthy), Nolasco

 

These are the top guys unless I'm missing someone. Doesn't look that great to me. Even if the Twins did like one of them would the player be willing to come to Minnesota?

[IdahoPilgrim]

I was referring to the game day posts (in game) where every one chats during the game.

 

Oh, my, you should know better than that. Game threads have little if any serious discussion taking place - it's more like the banter that goes back and forth between fans in the stands as they watch the action on the field. It's all for fun, not analysis.

[diehardtwinsfan]

We'll see what happens this next offseason....I'm prety sure they have 2 players under contract for more than $5.5.MM next year, two. Willingham and Mauer, that's it.

 

They have 7 players scheduled to make at least $1MM next year.

 

$24.5MM comes off the books next year, putting them below $60MM if they don't sign any free agents. Oh, and they get $25MM more in national tv money......meaning they have $50MM to play with, just to stay level with this year (or, if you want them to pocket 50% of the new money, $37MM).

 

The salary structure should be going up, just from baseball inflation (which is nothing like real world inflation), and the increase in national tv money, let alone the new stadium.

 

Since Cubans don't go against the cap, I hope this means they are going to go hard after every Cuban defector on the market.

[ThePuck]

Top bats:

Cano, Ellsbury, Shoo, Pence, Beltran, McCann, Granderson, Cruz. All the top bat at positions we don't need, out side of Cano, who we won't sign.

 

Top pitchers:

Kuroda (39), Burrnet (37), Garza (Twins traded away), Lincy (who might be done as a starter), Josh Johnson (always injured), Halladay (old, injured, and has looked horrid when healthy).

 

These are the top guys unless I'm missing someone. Doesn't look that great to me. Even if the Twins did like one of them would the player be willing to come to Minnesota?

 

You're certainly making an early defense of the upcoming FA moves/non-moves by our front office. Preemptive strike in action.

 

Why wouldn't we need any of those guys? Because our OF is awesome? Because we couldn't slide one to 1B (like Beltran), cause we're set at DH? On top of them, which are a lot of good names, BTW, Zobrist might be also be available. Kendry Morales should be, Morse should be, Aaron Hill should be. Lester may be available, Vogelsong may be available.

 

In any event, it's not like we see much better FA classes pop up every year. It's not a particularly bad one.

[johnnydakota]

Oh, my, you should know better than that. Game threads have little if any serious discussion taking place - it's more like the banter that goes back and forth between fans in the stands as they watch the action on the field. It's all for fun, not analysis.

 

Ok answer me this , we have 2 pitchers who conssitanly struggle in the 5th and 6th innings or the 3rd time through the batting order, if you have seen this time and time again , why do you let them give up 2 to 4 runs in the that situation, why not have your pen ready,instead of giving the game away in hopes that things will work out better this time.

[johnnydakota]

Since Cubans don't go against the cap, I hope this means they are going to go hard after every Cuban defector on the market.

 

Ryan will sign every Cuban player posible,if there reasonably priced ....( a donkey and 2 bunches of bananas)

It has been 1 of my biggest complaints, with Tony O on the teams payroll

why are we not the Cuban connection,If we signed 2 or 3 players,then wouldnt other defectors want to come to the twins ,where there will be other fellow country men already playing , and maybe even at a reduced price(you listening cheapskate front office)

[ThePuck]

On another site, a list of the top 30 international prospects came out. I wonder if we'll get any of them.

[drjim]

On another site, a list of the top 30 international prospects came out. I wonder if we'll get any of them.

 

They have the past 4 years and have the 4th most money to spend.

[cmathewson]

You're certainly making an early defense of the upcoming FA moves/non-moves by our front office. Preemptive strike in action.

 

Why wouldn't we need any of those guys? Because our OF is awesome? Because we couldn't slide one to 1B (like Beltran), cause we're set at DH? On top of them, which are a lot of good names, BTW, Zobrist might be also be available. Kendry Morales should be, Morse should be, Aaron Hill should be. Lester may be available, Vogelsong may be available.

 

In any event, it's not like we see much better FA classes pop up every year. It's not a particularly bad one.

 

I'll go you one further: It's much better than last year. The pitching, in particular, is much deeper. List curtesy of Cots ( I deleted names I thought were not options, or who have options):

 

Bronson Arroyo

Scott Baker

Erik Bedard

A.J. Burnett

Scott Feldman

Matt Garza

Jason Hammel

Tim Hudson

Phil Hughes

Josh Johnson

Hiroki Kuroda

John Lannan

Ted Lilly

Tim Lincecum

Shaun Marcum

Ricky Nolasco

Mike Pelfrey

Ervin Santana

Jason Vargas

Chien-Ming Wang

Chris Young

[ThePuck]

They have the past 4 years and have the 4th most money to spend.

 

I wasn't taking a shot at them, I was just wondering. No need to get defensive. In any event, since you brought it up, they got a TOP 30 international prospect in EACH of the last 4 years? Can you refresh our memory on who they were?

[johnnydakota]

On another site, a list of the top 30 international prospects came out. I wonder if we'll get any of them.

 

Im sure Ryan and Gardy are drooling over DeJesus, a soft tossing controll pitcher

[Guest USAFChief]

Oh, my, you should know better than that. Game threads have little if any serious discussion taking place - it's more like the banter that goes back and forth between fans in the stands as they watch the action on the field. It's all for fun, not analysis.

little if any serious discussion?!!??!1? Hey...I resemble that remark!

[snepp]

Game threads are serious business.

 

 

 

 

Serious business.

[IdahoPilgrim]

Game threads are serious business.

 

 

 

 

Serious business.

 

I dare you to say that with a straight face.

[Joe A. Preusser]

I dare you to say that with a straight face.

 

I'd need a few drinks first. Cheers!

[Mike Sixel]

Those of us over 21 could probably all use a few drinks after the last 2-3 days here....

[Guest USAFChief]

The statement that you have to spend money to make money is true. It is also is true that you can't draw a line of causation between spending and the product. I am shocked that someone of your rank can't see how both statements are true. The team has to spend to upgrade but it has to spend wisely. As usual, they will turn something up from the scrap heap.

So you're on board...spending = winning.

[Guest USAFChief]

I dare you to say that with a straight face.

I don't know what to say to someone who thinks the "Ginger v. MaryAnn" controversy isn't serious business.

 

It's like I don't even know who you ARE anymore.

[zenser]

I'll go you one further: It's much better than last year. The pitching, in particular, is much deeper. List curtesy of Cots ( I deleted names I thought were not options, or who have options):

 

Bronson Arroyo

Scott Baker

Erik Bedard

A.J. Burnett

Scott Feldman

Matt Garza

Jason Hammel

Tim Hudson

Phil Hughes

Josh Johnson

Hiroki Kuroda

John Lannan

Ted Lilly

Tim Lincecum

Shaun Marcum

Ricky Nolasco

Mike Pelfrey

Ervin Santana

Jason Vargas

Chien-Ming Wang

Chris Young

 

Would Garza come back here? Vargas, Nolasco, and Lincecum maybe worth a look given their age. If we keep up the one year retread option, maybe Ervin Santana. Hopefully in a couple years we can look for a #5 starter rather than an ace.

[Mike Sixel]

zenser, I look forward to that future.....

[snepp]

I dare you to say that with a straight face.

 

Serious.

 

 

Business.

 

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-C6KzUr33OLg/Tv5E43sfY6I/AAAAAAAAGhQ/wyxC5vE34s0/s1600/straight-face.jpg

[Highabove]

The problem is, we lack evidence. Is the current spending an outlier or part of a trend? The cynics are inclined to say it's part of a trend. The homers are inclined to call it an outlier. I lean toward the latter camp, but all I have to go on is the decade prior to this year, in which they spent close to 50% of revenue every year, give or take 5%.

 

I understand that's not good enough for some. And I accept that I'll never convince them until the Twins indeed spend 50% of revenue again. But I fail to see why they wouldn't do that. You have to spend money to make money. They will lose money if they are so cheap, they fail to field a winning team. That is the reality of the business.

 

 

2009 Revenue 162 million Payroll 65 million

 

2008 Revenue 158 million Payroll 62 million

 

A little research shows that the Twins were well under 50% of revenue in their final two years at the Dome. The result was a very healthy operating income of over 50 million dollars.

 

The Business Of Baseball - Forbes.com

 

The Business Of Baseball - Forbes.com