Very informative interview with Twins assistant GM Rob Antony

[PseudoSABR]

Your confusion apparently extends to not following the Twins closely in the offseason, or even reading the multiple threads on TD that discussed Ryan's, St Peter's and Pohlad's public comments on their approach to Free Agency and their speculations and ruminations on why, and why not, players did, or did not, consider signing with the Twins.

Given that you've studied so earnestly and thoroughly, you must be able to direct us to such evidence very easily, indeed.

 

You made the contention that the Twins whined to the media, the onus is on you to provide evidence. Without such, I'll consider the statement retracted and the matter closed. So if you want to leave it at that, we can.

[Halsey Hall]

I agree sabr. And I thought it was an informative interview. Common sense would take one down the trail of what needed to be done in the off season. Nothing there that I wouldn't have tried, but one thing I would of done is shore up 3rd base. I've got huge doubts on that position. It was interesting that 4 teams stepped up and inquired about Revere. And I feel that was a very good trade for us.

 

Oh ya, a little common sense also tells you not everyone would want to play for the Twins.

[Guest USAFChief]

WRT to the interview, it was a good read and I though Antony was surprisingly candid for the most part. I would have liked to see a question or two about why payroll has dropped so far, so fast, and maybe a follow up about where payroll can be expected to go in the coming years.

[snepp]

Alrighty brothers, a little less flame stoking, a little more kumbaya.

 

 

Carry on.

[jokin]

I agree sabr. And I thought it was an informative interview. Common sense would take one down the trail of what needed to be done in the off season. Nothing there that I wouldn't have tried, but one thing I would of done is shore up 3rd base. I've got huge doubts on that position. It was interesting that 4 teams stepped up and inquired about Revere. And I feel that was a very good trade for us.

 

Oh ya, a little common sense also tells you not everyone would want to play for the Twins.

 

 

It's the Twins FO's job to make that "common sense" a lot less de rigueur.

 

My point being, you have to develop a sell-able and all-encompassing comprehensive plan to present to prospective FAs and their agents, convincing them why a MN Twins offer is one they need to strongly consider. Particularly if they are now arguing that money and years isn't always the final determinant in where players sign.

[jokin]

Given that you've studied so earnestly and thoroughly, you must be able to direct us to such evidence very easily, indeed.

 

You made the contention that the Twins whined to the media, the onus is on you to provide evidence. Without such, I'll consider the statement retracted and the matter closed. So if you want to leave it at that, we can.

 

Following the modicum as directed by the mod, may I gently suggest and guide you- there's this new invention that just came out called Google, feel free to type it in with the appropriate subject matter, or not. You can also just attach "Twins Daily" to the inquiry, there were pages of discussion on this just a few months ago, my statement is most certainly not retracted, you can consider it however you wish- as the "onus" moves you.

[PseudoSABR]

Following the modicum as directed by the mod, may I gently suggest and guide you- there's this new invention that just came out called Google, feel free to type it in with the appropriate subject matter, or not. You can also just attach "Twins Daily" to the inquiry, there were pages of discussion on this just a few months ago, my statement is most certainly not retracted, you can consider it however you wish- as the "onus" moves you.

The good ole google fallacy, touche'. Perfect form indeed.

 

We're clearly at an impasse, so there's no need to carry on.

[snepp]

We're clearly at an impasse, so there's no need to carry on.

 

But I said carry on!

[jokin]

But I said carry on!

 

I am, I am, I was away doing more research with that google fallacy device.

[PseudoSABR]

But I said carry on!

Sorry to be the party-pooper, but I'd rather not.

[drjim]

Please read the previous comment and then feel free to choose to do your own homework, or not. If you are informed on this topic as you were on John Lannan, I understand your confusion.

 

If you are replying to me I have no idea what you are talking about regarding Lannan.

 

To the previous comment, I have followed offseason interviews quite closely and most of the threads on this site (at least until they denigrate into flame wars) and I guess I'm not as convinced as you are as to the conclusions you are drawing in this thread. The front office seems to be as straightforward and candid about free agency as one could reasonably expect.

[drjim]

They HAVE to? Couldn't a baseball team assemble a core of free agent signings and trades, and then supplement that with a homegrown players? There is no one correct way to win a zero sum game like major league baseball.

 

I concede this is a possibility but I would say extra difficult when the team needs to pretty much rebuild an entire rotation (along with the other holes the Twins have). And it is getting more difficult each year as more core type players get locked up around the league and the free agency pool gets shallower and shallower.

[drjim]

It's the Twins FO's job to make that "common sense" a lot less de rigueur.

 

My point being, you have to develop a sell-able and all-encompassing comprehensive plan to present to prospective FAs and their agents, convincing them why a MN Twins offer is one they need to strongly consider. Particularly if they are now arguing that money and years isn't always the final determinant in where players sign.

 

I'm sure the front office is kicking themselves for not thinking of this. They narrowly dodged back to back 100 loss seasons and had minimal prospects for this season, no recruiting pitch can cover this up.

[jokin]

I'm sure the front office is kicking themselves for not thinking of this. They narrowly dodged back to back 100 loss seasons and had minimal prospects for this season, no recruiting pitch can cover this up.

 

One thing you learn in business, ANY situation can be effectively marketed, even this 2-year train wreck.

[The Wise One]

From the story

RA: We made very competitive offers to a couple pitchers, and maybe even better offers than what players signed for. You get into a situation when you're coming off of two 90-plus loss seasons - some pitchers, and to their credit they are looking to land in a place where they'll get a chance to win, and some teams can just offer that and a player will look at it and believe it moreso than when we say "Hey, we're trying to win, too."

 

And Old Nursie was villified and mocked for even saying that it was a disctinct possibility in the club's problem in signnig free agents.

[jokin]

From the story

RA: We made very competitive offers to a couple pitchers, and maybe even better offers than what players signed for. You get into a situation when you're coming off of two 90-plus loss seasons - some pitchers, and to their credit they are looking to land in a place where they'll get a chance to win, and some teams can just offer that and a player will look at it and believe it moreso than when we say "Hey, we're trying to win, too."

 

And Old Nursie was villified and mocked for even saying that it was a disctinct possibility in the club's problem in signnig free agents.

 

 

Hence the need for a solid marketing plan that better convinces more players of the opportunity available to them in MN

 

Some offseason comments by Ryan and St Peter that at times contradict what Antony said, and themselves (it took me all of 3 minutes to look up, cut and paste):

 

http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/4381-terry-ryan-mlb-network-sometime-next-50-minutes.html

 

and Strib/ PiPress

 

 

"We have been trying to sign pitching early this off-season!! Sometimes you can't give your money away"

 

"You can't feel sorry for yourself. You have to just do something else."

 

“There isn’t any shortcut to get where we want to go,” Ryan said. “I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.”

 

"But Ryan's comments were pointed: 'This is not going to be a free agency approach.'"

 

"When you're sitting in that GM chair it's a little different in terms of getting that agent to agree to that one-year deal. ... Particular from a free agent who's going to assess how close we are to really winning. You might identify a player who's a high-profile guy, but you've got to understand he also has to want to come play in Minnesota, play at Target Field."

 

" I can tell you Terry Ryan has had a lot of discussions with a lot of free agents, a lot of guys you have championed that we sign. Don't think that we don't necessarily agree with you, but it takes two to get those deals done."

 

"No. It's dollars and years. It's dollars and years. And at the end of the day, a player might have Option A and Option B, depending where they're from. He may be able to take less in Option A, but at the end of the day it's ultimately going to come down to dollars and years."

 

On the many free agent starters who signed one-year deals with other teams:

"We've had a rich history here, certainly during Terry's tenure, of trying to make good baseball decisions. And we certainly have a belief in what a guy's worth. I have to trust, with all due respect, I have to trust our evaluators. I think they've done a great job. We're trying to get better. And ultimately your assessment of a player, there might be a reason why a guy got a one-year deal versus a multi-year deal that perhaps we're more privy to than maybe the public is. Whether it's health, whether it's makeup, whether a player specifically wanted to play in a certain market or a certain ballpark or with a certain manager or a certain teammate."

 

[The Wise One]

Hence the need for a solid marketing plan that better convinces more players of the opportunity available to them in MN

 

Some offseason comments by Ryan and St Peter that at times contradict what Antony said, and themselves (it took me all of 3 minutes to look up, cut and paste):

 

http://twinsdaily.com/minnesota-twins-talk/4381-terry-ryan-mlb-network-sometime-next-50-minutes.html

 

and Strib/ PiPress

 

 

"We have been trying to sign pitching early this off-season!! Sometimes you can't give your money away"

 

"You can't feel sorry for yourself. You have to just do something else."

 

“There isn’t any shortcut to get where we want to go,” Ryan said. “I don’t think there’s any doubt about that.”

 

"But Ryan's comments were pointed: 'This is not going to be a free agency approach.'"

 

"When you're sitting in that GM chair it's a little different in terms of getting that agent to agree to that one-year deal. ... Particular from a free agent who's going to assess how close we are to really winning. You might identify a player who's a high-profile guy, but you've got to understand he also has to want to come play in Minnesota, play at Target Field."

 

" I can tell you Terry Ryan has had a lot of discussions with a lot of free agents, a lot of guys you have championed that we sign. Don't think that we don't necessarily agree with you, but it takes two to get those deals done."

 

"No. It's dollars and years. It's dollars and years. And at the end of the day, a player might have Option A and Option B, depending where they're from. He may be able to take less in Option A, but at the end of the day it's ultimately going to come down to dollars and years."

 

On the many free agent starters who signed one-year deals with other teams:

"We've had a rich history here, certainly during Terry's tenure, of trying to make good baseball decisions. And we certainly have a belief in what a guy's worth. I have to trust, with all due respect, I have to trust our evaluators. I think they've done a great job. We're trying to get better. And ultimately your assessment of a player, there might be a reason why a guy got a one-year deal versus a multi-year deal that perhaps we're more privy to than maybe the public is. Whether it's health, whether it's makeup, whether a player specifically wanted to play in a certain market or a certain ballpark or with a certain manager or a certain teammate."

 

 

A better marketing plan to free agents. Derp. My Brother the player agent is smarter than a marketing plan.

[jokin]

A better marketing plan to free agents. Derp. My Brother the player agent is smarter than a marketing plan.

 

??? So during the negotiations, anything the Twins ever say is a waste of time:

 

that the team is 100% committed to winning;

 

about how this thing is going to be turned around with: the quality assets at hand- the amazing assets soon coming up- and the key assets still to be acquired;

 

how the Twin Cities is a great place to live, raise a family, gather outside endorsements;

 

how Target Field is a showcase venue to play;

 

how the player's role is going to be maximally utilized as a key component to completing this turnaround;

 

and how with the Twins self-admitted wide latitude concerning payroll flexibility, the player in question will be justly rewarded, as will other acquisitions to make this plan a reality.

 

Nope, you're right, the Player and Agent would never believe any of this.

[Guest USAFChief]

I concede this is a possibility but I would say extra difficult when the team needs to pretty much rebuild an entire rotation (along with the other holes the Twins have). And it is getting more difficult each year as more core type players get locked up around the league and the free agency pool gets shallower and shallower.

I'm not at all sure it isn't easier to rebuild any part of your team through FA than through the minor leagues, including pitching. A LOT more expensive, sure, but buying what you're fairly sure will be productive almost has to work out more often than hoping what you have in the minor leagues turns into what you could have bought.

[PseudoSABR]

Some offseason comments by Ryan and St Peter that at times contradict what Antony said, and themselves (it took me all of 3 minutes to look up, cut and paste):

Thanks for supplying something in the way evidence. Though, I'm not sure how you could expect other people to find these quotes, if we draw different conclusions from the same evidence.

 

I think the quotes you provide seem pretty succinct with Anthony's interview, and I wouldn't characterize any of it as whining, pathetic or sad. The purveying attitude seems realistic, or at the very worst, resigned.

[Halsey Hall]

It's the Twins FO's job to make that "common sense" a lot less de rigueur.

 

My point being, you have to develop a sell-able and all-encompassing comprehensive plan to present to prospective FAs and their agents, convincing them why a MN Twins offer is one they need to strongly consider. Particularly if they are now arguing that money and years isn't always the final determinant in where players sign.

 

And perhaps they did the best they could of at that. But not all fish take the bait.

[PseudoSABR]

??? So during the negotiations, anything the Twins ever say is a waste of time:

 

that the team is 100% committed to winning;

 

about how this thing is going to be turned around with: the quality assets at hand- the amazing assets soon coming up- and the key assets still to be acquired;

 

how the Twin Cities is a great place to live, raise a family, gather outside endorsements;

 

how Target Field is a showcase venue to play;

 

how the player's role is going to maximally utilized as a key component to completing this turnaround;

 

and how with the Twins self-admitted wide latitude concerning payroll flexibility, the player in question will be justly rewarded, as will other acquisitions to make this plan a reality.

 

Nope, you're right, the Player and Agent would never believe any of this.

No, you're probably right. The Twins probably never thought to mention any of this!

[jokin]

And perhaps they did the best they could of at that. But not all fish take the bait.

 

I agree. My issue was publicly whining that you can't throw money at people. Exude confidence, not the need for pity.

[jokin]

No, you're probably right. The Twins probably never thought to mention any of this!

 

Care to respond to the previous quotes? The Twins FO was falling all over themselves to the fanbase, begging for more time, however much is needed, to "fix this the right way"; and in direct response as to why FA were not signing, playing the pity potty game, publicly.

[jokin]

Thanks for supplying something in the way evidence. Though, I'm not sure how you could expect other people to find these quotes, if we draw different conclusions from the same evidence.

 

I think the quotes you provide seem pretty succinct with Anthony's interview, and I wouldn't characterize any of it as whining, pathetic or sad. The purveying attitude seems realistic, or at the very worst, resigned.

 

And you find "realistic" (in effect, fatalistic) or "resigned" as acceptably purveying attitudes when marketing your team to players and fans?

[PseudoSABR]

Care to respond to the previous quotes? The Twins FO was falling all over themselves to the fanbase, begging for more time, however much is needed, to "fix this the right way"; and in direct response as to why FA were not signing, playing the pity potty game, publicly.

It's impossible to have a discussion when you wish to frame every piece of evidence in terms totally favorable to your point and overall ideology. Begging? Falling all over themselves? Playing the pity potty game? Those are all ridiculous characterizations that don't strike me as very serious. Every chance you get you try to paint the Twins not only as incompetent, but as bumbling fools.

[PseudoSABR]

And you find "realistic" (in effect, fatalistic) or "resigned" as acceptably purveying attitudes when marketing your team to players and fans?

I don't think any of those comments the least bit matter to prospective free agents.

[Riverbrian]

I watched the Terry Ryan interview from the winter meetings on MLB.

 

There is no way the comment "we can't give our money away" could be perceived as whining.

 

If you watched it... It was clear he was joking. He chuckled after he said it.

 

I have never seen Terry Ryan even smile... He smiled and chuckled after he said it.

 

Robin Williams he's not but he was just trying to entertain.

 

Thats all.. Carry on.

[drjim]

I'm not at all sure it isn't easier to rebuild any part of your team through FA than through the minor leagues, including pitching. A LOT more expensive, sure, but buying what you're fairly sure will be productive almost has to work out more often than hoping what you have in the minor leagues turns into what you could have bought.

 

Sure, but I would also argue that there just aren't that many quality free agents each offseason to build even 3/5 of a staff in this manner. Greinke and Sanchez were the only two premium free agents this offseason in my mind and those would have been tough contracts to match.

 

I would argue a realistic plan in an offseason if you were ready to go all in could be if you had 3 established starters and maybe some guys competing you could sign one premium free agent and maybe another body to fill the #5 spot. More than that would be difficult.

[diehardtwinsfan]

Care to respond to the previous quotes? The Twins FO was falling all over themselves to the fanbase, begging for more time, however much is needed, to "fix this the right way"; and in direct response as to why FA were not signing, playing the pity potty game, publicly.

 

Has anyone ever considered that fixing it the right way might mean another year or two of losing seasons while they stockpile talent to form the next core?

 

Unless you're the Yankees, winning is going to require having a very nice core of players, and the using the cash to fill in the gaps. I like others wasn't thrilled about all the moves (more realistically, the KC move), but the reality is that the best way to build a good competitive team is to do it via draft and trades. The Twins have done mighty well in that regard. They should be able to add a very nice piece or two in June and then turn around and being doing the same thing next year in a much deeper draft.