Kevin Correia?

[TheLeviathan]

The reason Baker at 5.5 guaranteed is an Overpay has nothing to do with his talent and everything to do with the likelihood that he won't pitch 15 games for the Cubs. It's not a 'bad contract', though. It only becomes a bad contract if he can't pitch any games. Or if you pay him 5.5 mil to rehab, look good in late season work and then sign with the Cards or Brewers and beat the Cubbies for years after.

 

I'll take 5.5M on the chance of Baker's talent over 2 years and 10M for a no-talent. Baker wasn't an overpay based on market prices this year. He'll look like a bargain by the end of this.

 

You could argue he wasn't a good fit because the team needs durability - fine. But because he was paid too much? Um, no.

[TheLeviathan]

Feel better?

 

Absolutely. That stump was well earned.

[Brock Beauchamp]

With the heat down in San Diego, the ball travels better than it does back here.

 

No, it doesn't.

 

San Diego is notorious for its not-balmy 70 degree game time.

[Guest USAFChief]

Feel better?

 

It's your own fault. Never wrestle with a pig. You both end up muddy and the pig likes it.

 

There's an "ignore poster" function, y'know.

[TheLeviathan]

It's your own fault. Never wrestle with a pig. You both end up muddy and the pig likes it.

 

There's an "ignore poster" function, y'know.

 

Cute, care to bring any of your sage advice on statistics to the table?

[twinsnorth49]

Why is the Baker signing such a great move again? We know this? Hasn't played in almost two years, Tommy John last April, he's a lock?

 

I'm not defending JR for the Correia signing, brutal and unnecessary, but that has nothing to do with me thinking that Baker would have been worth the risk. I don't believe the Twins didn't give Baker a similar deal as the Cubs because they felt it was overpaying, I think they just felt it was too high considering the risk and where it would have left them if it didn't work out.

[TheLeviathan]

Why is the Baker signing such a great move again? We know this? Hasn't played in almost two years, Tommy John last April, he's a lock?

 

I'm not defending JR for the Correia signing, brutal and unnecessary, but that has nothing to do with me thinking that Baker would have been worth the risk. I don't believe the Twins didn't give Baker a similar deal as the Cubs because they felt it was overpaying, I think they just felt it was too high considering the risk and where it would have left them if it didn't work out.

 

We already know the answer - they wanted a team option and he didn't. That appeared to be the crux of the issue. I don't disagree that it would have been nice to have, but saying "see ya" because 5.5M was "Excessive"? Um, no. It's not a matter of being a lock, Baker was a damn good AL pitcher in the past. But contracts being the same (5M) I'll take "slated to be ready, but a rough recent injury history with significant talent" over "durably not very good" any day of the week. We have durable and not very good, that's not what we should have been after.

[Nick Nelson]

I didn't realize the Twins' two free agent pitching options were Kevin Correia and Scott Baker.

[TheLeviathan]

I didn't realize the Twins' two free agent pitching options were Kevin Correia and Scott Baker.

 

Depends how realistic you wanted to be. I don't deny I put a lot of eggs in the Baker basket. McCarthy too. Was hoping we'd land one or both of them. After that I felt our odds of landing a serious talent were extremely slim.

[twinsnorth49]

Why is the Baker signing such a great move again? We know this? Hasn't played in almost two years, Tommy John last April, he's a lock?

 

I'm not defending JR for the Correia signing, brutal and unnecessary, but that has nothing to do with me thinking that Baker would have been worth the risk. I don't believe the Twins didn't give Baker a similar deal as the Cubs because they felt it was overpaying, I think they just felt it was too high considering the risk and where it would have left them if it didn't work out.

 

We already know the answer - they wanted a team option and he didn't. That appeared to be the crux of the issue. I don't disagree that it would have been nice to have, but saying "see ya" because 5.5M was "Excessive"? Um, no. It's not a matter of being a lock, Baker was a damn good AL pitcher in the past. But contracts being the same (5M) I'll take "slated to be ready, but a rough recent injury history with significant talent" over "durably not very good" any day of the week. We have durable and not very good, that's not what we should have been after.

 

I didn't say it was excessive, although I can understand anyone at the time Baker was signed, thinking 5.5M was a bigger risk than necessary. You can't deny there is a notable risk involved.

 

I'm not comparing the two deals anyway, that whole thing is irrelevant, I'm in the neither camp, Correia is awful and Baker is too risky considering the situation we're in.

[TheLeviathan]

I'm not comparing the two deals anyway, that whole thing is irrelevant, I'm in the neither camp, Correia is awful and Baker is too risky considering the situation we're in.

 

Fair enough. I think this offseason should be more about getting the most reward for the buck. If that comes with a lot of risk, so be it. That was my stance, the trouble with Correia is that he's safely awful and we guaranteed a staggering amount of money for that.

[twinsnorth49]

I'm not comparing the two deals anyway, that whole thing is irrelevant, I'm in the neither camp, Correia is awful and Baker is too risky considering the situation we're in.

 

Fair enough. I think this offseason should be more about getting the most reward for the buck. If that comes with a lot of risk, so be it. That was my stance, the trouble with Correia is that he's safely awful and we guaranteed a staggering amount of money for that.

 

Won't contest that last point, agreed.

[LoganJones]

If 5 mil a year for a #3-4 starter (Go look up the actual ERAs of those rotation positions, please) staggers you, I hope you were lying down when you saw the Grienke deal.

[twinsnorth49]

If 5 mil a year for a #3-4 starter (Go look up the actual ERAs of those rotation positions, please) staggers you, I hope you were lying down when you saw the Grienke deal.

 

Who is staggered by 5 Mil on a 3-4 starter? I'm staggered by 10 Mil over 2 years for a borderline 5th starter with no upside.

[Brock Beauchamp]

If 5 mil a year for a #3-4 starter (Go look up the actual ERAs of those rotation positions, please) staggers you, I hope you were lying down when you saw the Grienke deal.

 

If Kevin Correia is a #3, a lot has changed in the league in the past two months (ie. half the league contracted smallpox and died).

[johnnydakota]

To me , i am amazed that we would spend that kind of money on a non asset type of player, after this year who is going to offer us any thing for him?if we are building for the future shouldnt we sign players that will help us in the future,or players who will bring us prospect in a trade?

[LoganJones]

Just because you don't think something should be true, doesn't negate it: Pirates Prospects » What Should You Expect From Each Rotation Spot?

#1 – 3.36 ERA or better

#2 – 3.36 – 3.88 ERA

#3 – 3.88 – 4.38 ERA

#4 – 4.38 – 5.15 ERA

#5 – 5.15 ERA or worse

Depending on what you truly believe Correia's ERA will settle out at in the AL, His career starter numbers have fluctuated between #2 and #5, most commonly straddling 3/4. It's what is actually happening in the leagues. Although I will account for the possibility that the past couple of years have edged those numbers down, as offenses have been less productive. As seen elsewhere, Correia has done quite well in 100 interleague innings. Of course this is hardly any indication how he will do on a regular basis, it does suggest that perhaps he isn't going to completely melt down when not getting 2-3 free outs a game.

[Danchat]

If 5 mil a year for a #3-4 starter (Go look up the actual ERAs of those rotation positions, please) staggers you, I hope you were lying down when you saw the Grienke deal.

As I quote Pat Roycy, if Correia is worth $10M, then Grienke is easily worth $147M.

[kab21]

If 5 mil a year for a #3-4 starter (Go look up the actual ERAs of those rotation positions, please) staggers you, I hope you were lying down when you saw the Grienke deal.

As I quote Pat Roycy, if Correia is worth $10M, then Grienke is easily worth $147M.

 

If Correia is worth $10M then I am easily worth $1M.