Apathy

[SheboyganBrats]

I don't think the Twins roster situation is that different from the Cubs or the Astros.  We've had Buxton on the DL and we've got three or four guys on the 40-man roster that might contribute next year (Polanco, Arcia, Kepler, maybe even Meyer).  And, we've got a bunch of young guys that will have to be added to the 40-man soon.  The problem in my view has been twofold.  One, we've had a couple of significant injuries that have delayed Sano and Buxton.  Set back Altuve/Correa or Bryant/Russell by a year (Sano) or two (Buxton) and the Cubs and Astros situations might look different.  Second, we've had guys that looked like contributors but failed to perform on a consistent basis when given the opportunity.  I'd put Danny Santana and Arcia in that category, but some might disagree.  

 

Even though I think the Twins have run into some issues that the Cubs and Astros haven't, I don't disagree with the main thrust of what other posters have said.  There is something going on, whether it's the failure of the FO to make the right moves , regarding roster construction or trades, or whether the Twins have issues with player development in general, something isn't working here that seems to be working for those other teams.

[Mike Sixel]

Well, the cubs players ARE contributing, not MIGHT contribute next year......that's a pretty big difference, isn't it?

[drjim]

 

For further reference, the Cubs also have one additional player on the DL who will be under 26 in 2016.  And four more players on the 40-man who have an excellent chance to make the 25 man in 2016.  That would potentially make 9- and there are at least 3 more who will likely be added to the 40-man who could play next year. Having the potential to roster more than one third, up to almost one half of a 25-man made up of young players is pretty significant.

 

Similarly, the Astros have 6 additional players that will be under 26 on their 40-man, with a passel-full of players besides who may be added to the roster by next year.  (From the Appy League level on up, the Astros farm system teams have the best overall record in their respective minor leagues, save one.)

 

These two teams are winning, stocked, and young, and soon getting even younger. (Or soon dealing a lot of prospects for proven major league talent).

 

Twins have 7 additional guys on the 40 man not on the mlb squad at the moment that will be under 26 next year (though 1-2 might not survive), so again, relatively comparable. And that also doesn't count Berrios.

 

Why would you bring this up and ignore the Twins?

[SheboyganBrats]

 

Well, the cubs players ARE contributing, not MIGHT contribute next year......that's a pretty big difference, isn't it?

Absolutely agree.  That's why I said (maybe I was inarticulate) that I think there has to be something wrong with the FO or our player development.  The Cubs and Astros are getting results and we're not.  Maybe we're not good at scouting and drafting?

[drjim]

 

Absolutely agree.  That's why I said (maybe I was inarticulate) that I think there has to be something wrong with the FO or our player development.  The Cubs and Astros are getting results and we're not.  Maybe we're not good at scouting and drafting?

 

Twins are getting acceptable results from their young guys this year. Player development can always be better, but doesn't strike me as a huge issue.

 

The issue, relative to these three teams, is that the Cubs and especially the Astros are getting significantly better results from the more veteran guys, and a lot of this is from guys acquired from outside the organization. This is clearly where the Twins have failed.

[bluechipper]

 

Well, the cubs players ARE contributing, not MIGHT contribute next year......that's a pretty big difference, isn't it?

The Cubs did draft two college guys (Bryant and Schwarber) in the same drafts that the Twins took two high school guys, so it would make sense that they are a bit ahead right now.

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

That's the reality of mlb rosters, you just won't find that many under 26 on any team.

 

For reference, Astros will have two, Cubs will have four.

By B-Ref, Astros and Cubs each have 8 such players (under 26) right now, if you count McCullers and Velasquez who both got optioned to control their innings.  3 on each team are 25 so would leave the group next year.

 

Twins are a little behind.  They have 6 right now if you count Buxton on the DL, with three 25 year olds.

[Mike Sixel]

 

The Cubs did draft two college guys (Bryant and Schwarber) in the same drafts that the Twins took two high school guys, so it would make sense that they are a bit ahead right now.

 

I was responding to the post that said both teams were in the same place......not judging it at all. The Twins like the super slow approach, that's their prerogative.

[drjim]

 

By B-Ref, Astros and Cubs each have 8 such players (under 26) right now, if you count McCullers and Velasquez who both got optioned to control their innings.  3 on each team are 25 so would leave the group next year.

 

Twins are a little behind.  They have 6 right now if you count Buxton on the DL, with three 25 year olds.

 

I was counting under 26 for next year (in response to initial point), not this year, which is where the leaving group you cited comes in and the total numbers come from, and also reference to 40 man rosters later in the thread.

 

But yes, I would say the Twins are slightly behind, but in the ballpark on this measure, at least relative to these two teams. Overall, I'm not especially concerned about the young talent on the Twins or near the mlb roster, the Twins are representative.

 

What is killing the team is the veterans. Twins have over $55 mil committed in 15 and 16 just to Mauer, Hughes, Santana and Nolasco. That's not ideal. Might also explain some of the hesitancy to take on Tulo.

[Hosken Bombo Disco]

Speaking of the Cubs, they've demoted Starlin Castro to the bench. Castro was the young phenom shortstop they extended for 7 years and 60 million just a couple seasons ago. 

 

Castro is no longer one of the best nine players, the Cubs need to win games, and thus Castro is not playing. He has not been in the lineup for the past 3 games.

 

I would consider that the opposite of apathetic roster management on the part of Cubs management.

 

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

I was counting under 26 for next year (in response to initial point), not this year, which is where the leaving group you cited comes in and the total numbers come from, and also reference to 40 man rosters later in the thread.

I was using the current 25-man roster as a guide, which is why I noted how many current 25 years olds would drop out of the count next year.  Still not sure where you came up with 2 and 4 for the Astros and Cubs next year, respectively.  Both should have 5 based on their current 25-man roster (including DL and the two pitchers optioned for innings control) and 2016 season ages at B-Ref.  Twins will have 2 as of now (3 if you count Buxton).

[Otto von Ballpark]

 

But yes, I would say the Twins are slightly behind, but in the ballpark on this measure, at least relative to these two teams. Overall, I'm not especially concerned about the young talent on the Twins or near the mlb roster, the Twins are representative.

 

What is killing the team is the veterans. Twins have over $55 mil committed in 15 and 16 just to Mauer, Hughes, Santana and Nolasco. That's not ideal. Might also explain some of the hesitancy to take on Tulo.

Well, "veterans" are part of the reason the Twins might trail our contemporaries in the youth movement.  On the position player side, we've got a below-average 40 year old starting, plus a below-average 32 year old locked up for more seasons -- Cubs and Astros don't have any starters over 31, much less bad ones.

 

On the pitching side, we're a bit closer in age but lacking in quality.  30+ year old relievers aren't necessarily a bad thing to have on any club, but only if they're actually good.

[drjim]

I was using the current 25-man roster as a guide, which is why I noted how many current 25 years olds would drop out of the count next year. Still not sure where you came up with 2 and 4 for the Astros and Cubs next year, respectively. Both should have 5 based on their current 25-man roster (including DL and the two pitchers optioned for innings control) and 2016 season ages at B-Ref. Twins will have 2 as of now (3 if you count Buxton).

Sounds accurate. I will admit I went to the Espn active roster, counted how many players were 24 and under and reported my findings.

 

I was intrigued by the critique the Twins had some shortage of young guys so wanted to do a quick count of teams to see how they compared.

 

A much more detailed analysis is probably called for.

[Otto von Ballpark]

Yeah, I didn't do a detailed analysis either.  But I remember some of my research from a 2001 Twins comparison thread -- that 2001 Twins team was thoroughly young (and generally were for several years before and after too).  The Astros and Cubs aren't even that young, but they are closer to the 2001 Twins youth movement than the 2015 Twins have been so far.

 

A problem seems to be a lot of veterans that are substandard performers, but basically unmovable.  In the short term, they won't bench Torii and they can't/won't cut Pelfrey, Boyer, or Duensing regardless of how little future they have here.  And longer term, they won't bench Mauer or Santana/Hughes/Nolasco, they don't have any options to bench Suzuki, and Milone, Fien, and Jepsen probably have more job security than they deserve because of the names above....

[notoriousgod71]

Someone made a different thread comparing this year to 2001. To me, it feels more like 1998. There are so many old guys on this team that have no future in this organization (well, I'm sure they will all fill out the minor league coaching staff in three years).

 

Young teams need to come up and lose together before they are able to figure things out and become a winning team. Let everyone with a legitimate shot to be a part of the future play and take their lumps together.

 

Hunter, Suzuki, Mauer, Robinson, Pelfrey, and Boyer are this year's version of Molitor, Steinbach, Nixon, Tewksbury, and Aguilera. Both are/were directionless teams and that gives me less hope than a team full of 20 somethings getting their asses handed to them night after night.

[stocker08]

What should we have expected?  We did a whole lot of nothing to improve the team.  

 

Look at the Blue Jays.

[DaveW]

What should we have expected? We did a whole lot of nothing to improve the team.

 

Look at the Blue Jays.

True, teams like the Jays, Astros and the Mets go out and make moves. Is it a coincidence that those three are the hottest in baseball?