2016 Election Thread

[Hrbowski]

 

That's going to far.  Socialism is a viable form of governance for developed nations.  What the Tea Party seems to be advocating is to abdicate governance altogether.   Although it might be unpalatable to the American public to a similar degree that the Tea Party is - the socialistic argument doesn't depend on bluster and ignorance.  Our country has moved so far right, that our perception of what is viable form governance is distorted.

 

That said, I agree with the general sentiment that Bernie wouldn't fair well against a moderate Republican, but I'm not sure the primary process is going to produce that.   Part of the reason the Democrats have put forward so many bland moderates as their nominee is that liberals are too willing to compromise their values by playing the long-game - sometimes that works (Bill Clinton) but sometimes it doesn't (Kerry, Gore).  

 

As much as I want to keep the Whitehouse from Republicans, I think it would do America a lot of good to have debate about socialism on the main stage.  

There is a difference an anarchist:

 

http://image2.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2007/95/250_117587814455.jpg

 

And a Tea Partier:

 

http://myhero.com/images/guest/g23648/g23648_u22316_portrait.jpg

[TheLeviathan]

 

While I don't really think socialism  could work I as a tea partier would rather have pure socialism then what we have now.  I think on most issues we are far better off going to one extreme or the other even if it's the extreme I disagree with.  If socialist had the same point of view we could get somewhere.  I think people mislable what the tea party really is for political purpose so I get why people are afraid of us, but we want what the socialist want we just have a different and in our opinion better way to get there.

 

The problem is that extremists who don't compromise make even the mundane, necessary political action impossible.

 

Ted Cruz is basically hated by everyone in part because he won't let anything get accomplished.  I get that the Tea Party wants to reduce the power of the Fed. government, but you don't do that by stopping every spending bill from happening.  You do it by proposing smart programs and changes to the existing structure to reduce government but still provide for the citizens.

 

What the Tea Party has become in practice is nothing more than loud idiots who merely have to stump for whatever their base clamors for to stay elected.  Once again, sort of how I view Sanders in many respects.  Just an idiot of a different order.

[PseudoSABR]

 

And a Tea Partier:

 

http://myhero.com/images/guest/g23648/g23648_u22316_portrait.jpg

Sorry, the current Tea Partiers are nothing like the founding fathers, who actually empowered the federal government. 

[Hrbowski]

 

Sorry, the current Tea Partiers are nothing like the founding fathers, who actually empowered the federal government. 

But they did want a very limited federal government, except a few like Alexander Hamilton.

[Hrbowski]

 

The problem is that extremists who don't compromise make even the mundane, necessary political action impossible.

 

Ted Cruz is basically hated by everyone in part because he won't let anything get accomplished.  I get that the Tea Party wants to reduce the power of the Fed. government, but you don't do that by stopping every spending bill from happening.  You do it by proposing smart programs and changes to the existing structure to reduce government but still provide for the citizens.

 

What the Tea Party has become in practice is nothing more than loud idiots who merely have to stump for whatever their base clamors for to stay elected.  Once again, sort of how I view Sanders in many respects.  Just an idiot of a different order.

I don't think that Cruz or Sanders is an idiot.

[TheLeviathan]

 

I don't think that Cruz or Sanders is an idiot.

 

It's not that they are stupid people, it's that they are totally oblivious about how to be effective at making their positions a reality.  They loudly shout about what they want to accomplish with no clue about how to actually accomplish it.

 

What has Ted Cruz accomplished as a Senator?  The answer is virtually nothing.  Go look it up yourself if you don't believe me.

[Hrbowski]

 

It's not that they are stupid people, it's that they are totally oblivious about how to be effective at making their positions a reality.  They loudly shout about what they want to accomplish with no clue about how to actually accomplish it.

 

What has Ted Cruz accomplished as a Senator?  The answer is virtually nothing.  Go look it up yourself if you don't believe me.

Okay, just because you don't have bills signed into law doesn't mean that you aren't accomplishing something, and in fact, what he has accomplished is that he has done everything he said he would, which seems pretty hard for a politician to do.

[TheLeviathan]

 

Okay, just because you don't have bills signed into law doesn't mean that you aren't accomplishing something, and in fact, what he has accomplished is that he has done everything he said he would, which seems pretty hard for a politician to do.

 

Isn't part of your job as a Senator to pass bills?  Has he accomplished blocking Obamacare?  Did he reduce the federal government in any meaningful way?

 

Yes, he's accomplished being a pain in the ass.  Is that the extent of the Tea Party's aims?  Just to be a gnat or a fly in the ointment?  I would hope, at some point, you'd want some legislation on the books to actually accomplish something.

[PseudoSABR]

 

Okay, just because you don't have bills signed into law doesn't mean that you aren't accomplishing something, and in fact, what he has accomplished is that he has done everything he said he would, which seems pretty hard for a politician to do.

What's the difference between this and outright bluster? 

[DaveW]

Cruz is going to win Iowa, Trump is on the way out. Guessing Rubio is a near lock for the nomination at this point.

[mikecgrimes]

 

Sorry, the current Tea Partiers are nothing like the founding fathers, who actually empowered the federal government. 

 

What do you think the original tea party would have done in the current climate?  Just say oh well things are out of control lets not do anything to stop it?

[mikecgrimes]

 

 

Cruz is going to win Iowa, Trump is on the way out. Guessing Rubio is a near lock for the nomination at this point.

 

Sounds about right as none of the other establishment candidates hit over 2%, the question is how far does Trump fade in New Hampshire.  The big story is turnout was way up and Trump underperformed big time.  Republicans were never gonna let it happen no matter how much Democrats wished he won the nomination.  Hopefully the idiot drops out after South Carolina.

[PseudoSABR]

 

What do you think the original tea party would have done in the current climate?  Just say oh well things are out of control lets not do anything to stop it?

Probably take away the vote from women, count illegal immigrants as three-fifths a person, and invade the American Indian reservations. It blows my mind that we should somehow use what they thought as a measuring stick - especially on issues that divide liberals and conservatives, like equal rights and treatment of workers and the poor.  

 

The founding fathers could not imagine the society in which we live and could not present a reasonable solution to our ills.  

[biggentleben]

I want Trump to either drop out to stop hearing the Democrat BS from a particular poster or to win the whole thing just for the wonder that will come forth in the response thereafter.

[PseudoSABR]

Pulling out of the debate seems to not have worked in Trump's favor.  

[mikecgrimes]

 

Pulling out of the debate seems to not have worked in Trump's favor.  

 

It was probably the right move.  His opponents closed on him as you would expect.  If he was in that debate his entire campaign might have blown up.  Hard to win a Republican race when your a Democrat.

[nicksaviking]

Probably take away the vote from women, count illegal immigrants as three-fifths a person, and invade the American Indian reservations. It blows my mind that we should somehow use what they thought as a measuring stick - especially on issues that divide liberals and conservatives, like equal rights and treatment of workers and the poor.  

 

The founding fathers could not imagine the society in which we live and could not present a reasonable solution to our ills.

 

And the second amendment applied to front loading muskets and freedom of speech was protected by the right to pour hot tar on dissenters.

 

They did believe in socialized healthcare though, that is the community would gather together to burn alive those in need of mental help.

[PseudoSABR]

 

It was probably the right move.  His opponents closed on him as you would expect.  If he was in that debate his entire campaign might have blown up.  Hard to win a Republican race when your a Democrat.

No.  I think it was a power play, with the added benefit of exposing Cruz and not taking any hits (I guess from Megyn Kelly.   But it also played against the "I'm a winner" narrative.   He'll win NH, but eventually I think he loses support.

[DaveW]

I think the increased voter turnout helped Rubio the most.

 

Those extra people who turned out were like "Oh ****, we can't put up Cruz or Trump here!"

[DaveW]

Pulling out of the debate seems to not have worked in Trump's favor.

I don't think it helped him, but I don't think it hurt him much. I'm actually relieved that iowa basically went against Trump.

[mikecgrimes]

 

Isn't part of your job as a Senator to pass bills? 

 

No.  We already have a set of laws.  Sometimes we need new or different laws, but not often.  It would be nice to change some but if the other side isn't willing to agree to those changes what exactly would you suggest he do?

[mikecgrimes]

 

I think the increased voter turnout helped Rubio the most.

Those extra people who turned out were like "Oh ****, we can't put up Cruz or Trump here!"

 

Cruz just about out performed Rommney and Santorum combined

[DaveW]

 

Cruz just about out performed Rommney and Santorum combined

Last two "winners" of Iowa for the GOP

Santorum

Huckabee

 

How did those two campaigns turn out again?

 

Rubio was the CLEAR winner of tonight, followed by Sanders (Again, Sanders is going to get in a lot of trouble when 95% of the voters aren't white, but its still closer than many thought it would be)

 

The losers were:

Trump

Paul

Kasich

Clinton (Just a bit)

 

Paul and Kasich are just way to far back to be considered legit anymore. Which is unfortunate because both seemed like the most reasonable.

 

The whole "Iowa followed by NH" bit is just so stupid at this point, I think you are talking about two states that are like >90% Caucasian (plus education rates etc that don't mesh with overall USA demo)

 

 

 

[mikecgrimes]

When New Hampshire voted we still thought Rommney won Iowa He did just fine.  South Carolina is a must win for Cruz otherwise Rubio will just about sweep his way to the nomination.

[DaveW]

Also before people try to claim Rubio is a moderate, keep in mind that is only bc he is "moderate" when you compare him to Cruz.

 

Other than immigration, Rubio has been a Tea Party hero (Against Abortion period, even in cases of Rape and incest, For Tougher Drug Laws, Against Gay Rights, Against Women's rights, Denies Climate Change, and against Net Neutrality)

 

 

[PseudoSABR]

Bernie hanging in there.  I really didn't think he'd have a shot in Iowa.  Not that it really means much going forward.  I can't really see him winning out West or the East Coast cities, but he might get liberal Midwesterns and upper New Englanders enough to make it fight.

[Shane Wahl]

Haha. Political compass nailed it pretty well:

http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

 

 

[flpmagikat]

Hillary won't win because she won't concede any ground to the left. In the primaries. Idekwtbwt. I kinda hope she loses to trump and both parties canabalize themselves but I'm sure it will lead to a more right wing nation. Sucks for an actual liberal.

[DaveW]

 

Hillary won't win because she won't concede any ground to the left. In the primaries. Idekwtbwt. I kinda hope she loses to trump and both parties canabalize themselves but I'm sure it will lead to a more right wing nation. Sucks for an actual liberal.

What? If Hilary wins the nomination she is clearly the most "progressive liberal" among the Dem nominations in like 20 years.....

 

I know Bernie's supporters (not so much Bernie) try to make her out to be some extreme moderate, that just isn't the case at all.

[DaveW]

 

 

Haha. Political compass nailed it pretty well:

http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2016

I thought you said you weren't reading this thread any more?

Also, using some website that looks like it was made in 1996 doesn't give me much reason to even dive into what it is trying to say (in its terrible, terrible layout)