Doumit Extension

[Twins Fan From Afar]

Well it isn't the "catching position alone" given that they are both going to be in the lineup together most of the time. Also, with regard to having Mauer-Doumit-Herrmann all on the roster . . . it seems less odd if one considers it from the best 13 position players angle and adds in the possibility that A: Joe Benson and Rene Tosoni may not be MLB serviceable until ???, B: someone from this Willingham-Span-Revere OF might be traded, and C: Plouffe isn't likely headed back to the OF. It's possible to have a bench with Herrmann and Valencia on it next year, which might make sense.

Good points. I should note that from what I have seen Herrmann is pretty decent in left field, and of course has a good arm. A roster with Mauer, Doumit and Herrmann certainly provides a lot of flexibility for the manager without the risk that that day's catcher is going to be hitting .170.

[Thrylos]

 

As far as Dozier goes, outside of Florimon, I am not sure what else there is to do (Casilla is not an improvement).

Casilla is an improvement. He has been hitting better than Dozier and he has been the Twins' best IF fielder this season (and is second in the team in SB) And he is 27 and has 2 arbitration seasons left. The team needs to see whether Casilla is part of the long term solution or not at this point. He is just entering his prime. I never quite understood his treatment by the manager or some parts of the fan-base for that matter, compare to, let's say, the treatment of Dozier... He is 2 years older than Dozier.

[Thrylos]

Yea, agreed that Herrmann might not be ready to start 2013 in Minnesota

Agreed

 

But my point is:

 

-Dozier is not ready to start in 2012 in Minnesota (maybe he could be in 2013,) and is starting.

-2/3 of the 2013 starting rotation will not be ready to start in Minnesota in 2013, but they will be starting.

-Signing to 2-year extension the teams' DH and maybe back up Catcher is not a priority (esp. for $5M a year), given the state of the rotation. Worse comes to worse, Morneau can be the DH and Parmelee (who is rotting on the bench for some weird reason, btw) the first baseman. And Gardy will play Butera as the back up C anyways...

[DPJ]

Casilla is an improvement. He has been hitting better than Dozier and he has been the Twins' best IF fielder this season (and is second in the team in SB) And he is 27 and has 2 arbitration seasons left. The team needs to see whether Casilla is part of the long term solution or not at this point. He is just entering his prime. I never quite understood his treatment by the manager or some parts of the fan-base for that matter, compare to, let's say, the treatment of Dozier... He is 2 years older than Dozier.

 

Lets not make it seem like Casilla has been getting some type of shaft from the organization and the fan base. He's a 27 year old .251/.307/.335 career hitter who can't stay healthly and is a spotty defender at best.

[Twins Fan From Afar]

Agreed

 

But my point is:

 

-Dozier is not ready to start in 2012 in Minnesota (maybe he could be in 2013,) and is starting.

-2/3 of the 2013 starting rotation will not be ready to start in Minnesota in 2013, but they will be starting.

-Signing to 2-year extension the teams' DH and maybe back up Catcher is not a priority (esp. for $5M a year), given the state of the rotation. Worse comes to worse, Morneau can be the DH and Parmelee (who is rotting on the bench for some weird reason, btw) the first baseman. And Gardy will play Butera as the back up C anyways...

I agree with all of that, thrylos. If this is a rebuild -- which it seems like it should be -- there's no shame in letting half a dozen "not ready for primetime" players figure it out next season up in Minnesota.

 

I think there's a big difference of opinion between fans (heck, probably between members of the front office) about what direction this team is going to take for 2013.

[Thrylos]

Lets not make it seem like Casilla has been getting some type of shaft from the organization and the fan base. He's a 27 year old .251/.307/.335 career hitter who can't stay healthly and is a spotty defender at best.

Have you looked at Dozier's slash line recently or look at the defensive metrics of Casilla vs Dozier this season?

[Shane Wahl]

Casilla is an improvement. He has been hitting better than Dozier and he has been the Twins' best IF fielder this season (and is second in the team in SB) And he is 27 and has 2 arbitration seasons left. The team needs to see whether Casilla is part of the long term solution or not at this point. He is just entering his prime. I never quite understood his treatment by the manager or some parts of the fan-base for that matter, compare to, let's say, the treatment of Dozier... He is 2 years older than Dozier.

Ok, I will temper my pro-Dozier/anti-Casilla attitude a little bit. But A: Casilla is almost 3 years older and has had significant playing time given to him. The problem is that he either A: gets hurt, B: hits decent, but becomes a dunder-head plenty in the field, or C: performs well in the field, but hits poorly.

 

Also, you make the arbitration statement as though a few million bucks is meaningless to this team, but clearly it is not given the 2012 payroll. I think the decision not to pay what Casilla will be due (about $2 million, correct?) next season has already been made, unless playing Carroll is meant to make Carroll trade-bait somehow this year (two-year deal makes that unlikely). And that is probably the correct decision if they go about replacing him on the roster next year with Pedro Florimon (only 6 months older than Dozier) for $450k or whatever. Trimming that kind of money twice (Burton?) can mean a $3 million difference in SP value.

 

That all said, it might be best for Dozier to go back to Rochester until August or even September.

[DaveW]

Have you looked at Dozier's slash line recently or look at the defensive metrics of Casilla vs Dozier this season?

44 games is not a large enough sample size to even take a look at UZR and other advanced metrics, also, Casilla plays 2B and Dozier plays SS. So comparing them in 2012 defensively is apples to oranges.

[boney]

Mauer has been healthy all season (minus last weeks hiccup) but has still only started 31 out of 64 games at catcher. Maybe the Twins should be trying to find an everyday catcher for the future and not worry so much about resigning the backup to the not so everyday starter.

[DaveW]

Mauer has been healthy all season (minus last weeks hiccup) but has still only started 31 out of 64 games at catcher. Maybe the Twins should be trying to find an everyday catcher for the future and not worry so much about resigning the backup to the not so everyday starter.

Or you can just split him 50/50 with another catcher with a good bat see: Doumit. At this point with other injuries/ineffectiveness the Twins have been able to play Mauer at 1st/DH. I'm sure if pressed he could have started more than 31 games at C so far.

[boney]

IMO, the Twins don't believe that Doumit is good enough to catch that many games a year. Butera wouldn't be here if that were the case. I wouldn't want to see either of them behind the plate for 80 games a year and I don't want any more reasons to waste a roster spot (imo) on someone that should have been a career minor leaguer in Butera.

[DaveW]

IMO, the Twins don't believe that Doumit is good enough to catch that many games a year. Butera wouldn't be here if that were the case. I wouldn't want to see either of them behind the plate for 80 games a year and I don't want any more reasons to waste a roster spot (imo) on someone that should have been a career minor leaguer in Butera.

I get your point, but in all honesty, if the Twins are going to be playing Mauer 60+ games a year at 1B+DH, I can't see Gardy going down to only two catchers on the roster anytime in the next year or two.

 

It's frustrating as hell, but prob time we just accept this as inevitable.

[boney]

Good point and kind of what I'm getting at also. The difference for me is that if they're going to get Mauer so many games away from catcher I'd like to see them get someone in that is capable of being an everyday catcher at this level. I don't dislike Doumit, I'd just rather have them concentrate on what (imo) is a bigger issue. If they can bring back Doumit in the backup to the backup catcher/dh/awful 1b-rf role for cheap I'm good with that.

[Fire Dan Gladden]

Good point and kind of what I'm getting at also. The difference for me is that if they're going to get Mauer so many games away from catcher I'd like to see them get someone in that is capable of being an everyday catcher at this level. I don't dislike Doumit, I'd just rather have them concentrate on what (imo) is a bigger issue. If they can bring back Doumit in the backup to the backup catcher/dh/awful 1b-rf role for cheap I'm good with that.

I believe Terry Ryan is capable of negotiating with more than one player at a time. For the Twins, backup catcher seems to be a big issue. Bigger than starting pitching? No, but big all the same. Plus, you deal with what you can when you can. Doumit has expressed an interest in coming back, the Twins have expressed intrest in having him back, now is as good a time as any to talk extension. If only our starting pitching issues could be solved so easily...