Johnson: Nick Burdi throws hard

[tarheeltwinsfan]

I wonder how it is possible to rate an arm like Burdi's. If he knows how to make the defensive plays a pitcher must make and he knows how to hold on base runners, what is the reason to have him pitch anywhere except with the Twins? Assuming he can cover first base on a bunt or infield hit and knows enough to back up home plate, lets find out about his mental makeup with the big club. With 2 + pitches he should be learning at the big league level. 95+ mph pitches should not be wasted on minor league hitters.

 

I agree. Let's see what this former college pitcher can do at the ML level. How will it hurt anything? I'm not sure I agree with the "let him build up confidence in the minors" theory. Or has he been over used in college this season already and needs to be used sparingly the rest of this season? The ML club isn't going anywhere this year. Maybe his 100 mph heat and 91 mph sliders will light a fire under the Twins and help get them excited again.

[tarheeltwinsfan]

College starters are safe, the HS arms drafted immediately after him (and I actually mean the next 6 HS pitchers, with no convenient omitions) Jesse Biddle, Zach Lee, Cam Bedrosian, Aaron Sanchez, Noah Syndergaard and Tijuan Walker were not safe. I guess.

.

Vent over. Yes, I'm still upset they went floor over upside, but I readily acknowledge they seem to have changed philosophy recently.

I wish I had not read this post. Ouch!

[benji21]

College starters are safe, the HS arms drafted immediately after him (and I actually mean the next 6 HS pitchers, with no convenient omitions) Jesse Biddle, Zach Lee, Cam Bedrosian, Aaron Sanchez, Noah Syndergaard and Tijuan Walker were not safe. I guess.

 

Vent over. Yes, I'm still upset they went floor over upside, but I readily acknowledge they seem to have changed philosophy recently.

 

Yeah, super depressing. Wimmers at the time was the absolute Zenith of Twins philosophy pitching and we could all probably hear a collective groan with that pick. I understand about hindsight blah blah blah, but seriously, look at those names and wrap your head around their nearly realized potential in the immediate future. They are knocking on the MLB door much sooner than Wimmers.

Shouldn't 'professional' (I type that with all the sarcasm my fingers can muster) baseball people know there is no such thing as safe??!! Go with upside Twins, not 'safe' college pitchers. Geeeeeez.

[Jeremy Nygaard]

Aren't the vast majority of mlb relievers failed starters?

 

YEP!

 

Burdi just failed in that roll in college.

[tobi0040]

Almost sounds as if Wimmers = Eades. in terms of stuff.

 

Also I can't help but wonder if the Twins did take advantage and sign Drew at SS and we missed out on Burdi as a result. Playing arm chair GM in retrospect which move would you rather us have made. I was all in the sign Drew camp over the winter. I didn't think we would get someone who could potentially help out next year.

 

I thought of Wimmers when we drafted Eades too. I don't like the low ceiling type pitchers in the early rounds, but Wimmers at 20 or 21 or wherever was more irritating than Eades in round 2. To see Eades struggling so bad in low A is shocking even to me. He is 21-22 and started at LSU.

[nicksaviking]

Yeah, super depressing. Wimmers at the time was the absolute Zenith of Twins philosophy pitching and we could all probably hear a collective groan with that pick. I understand about hindsight blah blah blah, but seriously, look at those names and wrap your head around their nearly realized potential in the immediate future. They are knocking on the MLB door much sooner than Wimmers.

Shouldn't 'professional' (I type that with all the sarcasm my fingers can muster) baseball people know there is no such thing as safe??!! Go with upside Twins, not 'safe' college pitchers. Geeeeeez.

 

Yeah, we can't play the hindsight game with players but we can play it with philosophy, and with the dearth of front line arms in the system in 2010, the Twins absolutely should have been looking for someone more upside. Although to be fair, I'd pick ceiling over floor in the first round every time, no matter the situation.

 

In my view, drafting based on a player's floor is the glass half empty view as you're wondering what's the worst that's going to happen. Drafting based on ceiling is the glass half full view as you're wondering how good this guy could turn out to be.

[tobi0040]

Yeah, we can't play the hindsight game with players but we can play it with philosophy, and with the dearth of front line arms in the system in 2010, the Twins absolutely should have been looking for someone more upside. Although to be fair, I'd pick ceiling over floor in the first round every time, no matter the situation.

 

In my view, drafting based on a player's floor is the glass half empty view as you're wondering what's the worst that's going to happen. Drafting based on ceiling is the glass half full view as you're wondering how good this guy could turn out to be.

 

Yeah, if you draft for floor on every pick....seems best case if all goes well you are a middle of the road team. Congrats.

[Oxtung]

I think they drafted for need by picking Wimmers and in that case I'm not sure it was wrong. At the major league level the Twins were ready offensively with Morneau, Cuddyer, Mauer, Hardy, the good Danny Valencia, Delmon Young (everyone hoped he would take off and in fact he OPS'd .826 that season), Span and Kubel. Everyone on that team was 24-28 except Cuddyer who was 31. That looked like an offense that was set to roll the next several seasons.

 

On the other hand the starters were struggling mightly. Led by 35 year old Pavano they also featured struggling Baker, Blackburn and Slowey. The previous season Swarzak, Perkins and Liriano had bottomed out. Just on the horizon at AAA they had these stellar prospects to look forward to:

 

David Bromberg, Cole DeVries, Matt Fox, Kyle Gibson (had just gone under the knife), Deolis Guerra (6+ ERA), Brad Hennessey, Yoslan Herrera, Steven Hirschfield, Tim Lahey, Jose Lugo, Jeff Manship, Mike Maroth, Ryan Mullins, Glen Perkins (5.8 ERA), Chris Province, Tyler Robertson, Anthony Swarzak (6.21 ERA). Every pitcher here made at least 1 start at AAA that year. In fact there was nobody at AA either. You have to go all the way down to A+ to find the next legit pitching prospect, Liam Hendriks.

 

So, the Twins had an just moved into a new ballpark and had an offense that looked ready to be stellar for years to come. On the other hand the pitching was mess and there were no prospects on the horizon. I think under those circumstances trying to draft a guy who might end up a 2-4 starter and make it to the majors within the next calendar year makes some sense. You can't reach the playoffs without decent pitching and we were looking at a dearth.

 

Now clearly things didn't turn out that way but I can't fault the Twins from trying to "win now" with the circumstances as they were.

[jokin]

I think they drafted for need by picking Wimmers and in that case I'm not sure it was wrong. At the major league level the Twins were ready offensively with Morneau, Cuddyer, Mauer, Hardy, the good Danny Valencia, Delmon Young (everyone hoped he would take off and in fact he OPS'd .826 that season), Span and Kubel. Everyone on that team was 24-28 except Cuddyer who was 31. That looked like an offense that was set to roll the next several seasons.

 

On the other hand the starters were struggling mightly. Led by 35 year old Pavano they also featured struggling Baker, Blackburn and Slowey. The previous season Swarzak, Perkins and Liriano had bottomed out. Just on the horizon at AAA they had these stellar prospects to look forward to:

 

David Bromberg, Cole DeVries, Matt Fox, Kyle Gibson (had just gone under the knife), Deolis Guerra (6+ ERA), Brad Hennessey, Yoslan Herrera, Steven Hirschfield, Tim Lahey, Jose Lugo, Jeff Manship, Mike Maroth, Ryan Mullins, Glen Perkins (5.8 ERA), Chris Province, Tyler Robertson, Anthony Swarzak (6.21 ERA). Every pitcher here made at least 1 start at AAA that year. In fact there was nobody at AA either. You have to go all the way down to A+ to find the next legit pitching prospect, Liam Hendriks.

 

So, the Twins had an just moved into a new ballpark and had an offense that looked ready to be stellar for years to come. On the other hand the pitching was mess and there were no prospects on the horizon. I think under those circumstances trying to draft a guy who might end up a 2-4 starter and make it to the majors within the next calendar year makes some sense. You can't reach the playoffs without decent pitching and we were looking at a dearth.

 

Now clearly things didn't turn out that way but I can't fault the Twins from trying to "win now" with the circumstances as they were.

 

I will still fault the Twins. Being in "win now" should have meant acquiring one or more additional proven major league starters- this is a more realistic way to solve the impending dearth in starting pitching. The new stadium was being built when Gibson and Wmmers were drafted, a couple long-term FA SP signings should have been within an expanded budget based on the expectations of the soon-expanded revenues.

[Oxtung]

I will still fault the Twins. Being in "win now" should have meant acquiring one or more additional proven major league starters- this is a more realistic way to solve the dearth in pitching. The new stadium was being built when Gibson and Wmmers were drafted, a couple long-term FA SP signings should have been within an expanded budget based on the expectations of the soon-expanded revenues.

 

It's hard to fault the Twins when the payroll was already sitting at >$95 million and they didn't know what their future revenue would be since it was their first year in the stadium. In addition that is the offseason they extended Mauer for $23 million.

[jokin]

The Twins salary considerations in 2010 were over $95 million. That offseason they extended Mauer at $23 million a season. It's hard to say they should have added additional long term contracts when they were in the first season of the new stadium and therefore they didn't know what their revenue stream would be long term.

 

With the myriad marketing studies done in this market and others that got a new stadium over the previous decade, I think it's safe to say they had a very good idea of the nature of the increased revenue streams coming their way, plus the enormous increase in the value of the franchise. And when you make an 8 year commitment to the face of the Twins, it seems incumbent on ownership to assure that he's surrounded with players capable of continuing the level of competitiveness, not depending to a great degree by putting your top picks on a couple of consecutive flyers on back-end-potential college pitchers.

[Oxtung]

With the myriad marketing studies done in this market and others that got a new stadium over the previous decade, I think it's safe to say they had a very good idea of the nature of the increased revenue streams coming their way, plus the enormous increase in the value of the franchise. And when you make an 8 year commitment to the face of the Twins, it seems incumbent on ownership to assure that he's surrounded with players capable of continuing the level of competitiveness, not depending to a great degree by putting your top picks on a couple of consecutive flyers on back-end-potential college pitchers.

 

You're being unfair to both Wimmers and Gibson. Both were considered to have considerably more upside than "back-end-potential".

 

Predicted revenues and actual revenues are very different beasts. Expecting the Twins to commit long term to pushing payroll to the limit of those expectations in the first year of the stadium seems a bit much in my opinion.

 

I'm curious to know who you would have signed in the 2011 offseason. Here's a list of FA pitchers.

[John Kelsey]

Soooo does Nick Burdi still throw hard?

[jokin]

You're being unfair to both Wimmers and Gibson. Both were considered to have considerably more upside than "back-end-potential".

 

Predicted revenues and actual revenues are very different beasts. Expecting the Twins to commit long term to pushing payroll to the limit of those expectations in the first year of the stadium seems a bit much in my opinion.

 

I'm curious to know who you would have signed in the 2011 offseason. Here's a list of FA pitchers.

 

I'm specifically talking more about planning out the transition to Target Field in 09 and 10, when the team was a pitcher or two short from having a more legit shot at the World Series, but after those two disappointing season-finishes, it's curious that the team didn't specifically address the issue going into 2011. (Jorge De la Rosa would have been a low-cost & risk/high return bet). And college pitchers historically, and almost by definition, are rarely ever about a lot of upside, much more the case it's what you see is what you get.

[Oxtung]

I'm specifically talking more about planning out the transition to Target Field in 09 and 10, when the team was a pitcher or two short from having a more legit shot at the World Series, but after those two disappointing season-finishes, it's curious that the team didn't specifically address the issue going into 2011. (Jorge De la Rosa would have been a low-cost & risk/high return bet). And college pitchers historically, and almost by definition, are rarely ever about a lot of upside, much more the case it's what you see is what you get.

 

Perhaps they could have done something differently before the transition to shore up the rotation, I haven't looked at it closesly enough to know the details. My point has only been that in June of 2010, when the franchise was bumping up against their financial constraints, they seem to have drafted a quick to the big leagues pitcher in an attempt to shore up their rotation. Given the state of the rotation and the prospects available I'm not sure that they were wrong in picking Wimmers.

[TRex]

Soooo does Nick Burdi still throw hard?

 

Soooo does Nick Burdi still throw hard?