Game7-91

Does he have to be on the 40?

Gotta give to get. IKF provides excellent to elite defense in middle infield, but then so did Simmons. Who knows how long Garver will remain at C, and/or slug at high levels. The pitching suspect coming back...meh.....hope it works out. He's a small guy with high velo...we shall see. Not a great deal for Twins, but after Simmons signed, options were limited if they were going to plug the SS hole and NOT SPEND MONEY DOING IT. This seems as fair a compromise as we can expect. Does open up question(s) about Miranda's or Arraez's future, or even Donaldson's. It would seem there are more moves on the horizon.

Agree with Rosterman and Mike8791....not expecting major FA agent signings, nor significant SP trade. Pineda-level guy or 2, a flyer on a BP arm, hope Beckham holds fort at SS, and start running the young guys through the rotation. It's a year to see what they have in the SP pipeline.

Tyler Jay was the most painful. But as Trov says, no way to predict if a player would have developed similarly in different org. Would love to have the Dodger version of Buehler on Twins. But 17 other teams passed on him too. Besides, I have a hunch Twins would not have developed the LAD version. We did develop Lamont Wade from that draft...just too bad we didnt know it.

Some things never change. How does that definition of insanity go?

Good point. And it makes me wonder if the idea of Baseball just relates to Americans in ways that are very different from any other pro sport, or entertainment option? This is interesting, from CreditCards.com, 2016 research: Separate data from TeamMarking.com shows the average 2016 cost to attend a National Football League game for a family of four was $502.84. The amount includes four tickets, two small draft beers, four small soft drinks, four hot dogs, parking and two cheap hats. That compares with $363.58 for a National Hockey League game, $339.02 for a National Basketball Association game and $219.53 for an Major League Baseball game.....The fact that people are spending this amount of money on sporting events shows the emphasis they’re putting on experience and memories instead of just stuff,” said Matt Schulz, senior industry analyst for CreditCards.com. Experience and memories instead of stuff. Baseball in general, and not just MLB, holds an iconic, if not mythological place in the American cultural conscience, moreso than the NFL, NBA or NHL. I have zero evidence to support this claim, just my own sense of things. So, FWIW, I say no other sport can evoke the experience of leisure, simplicity, and forget-your-worries like baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, Cracker Jax, adults who play a kids game with the glee of a kid, Take Me Out To The Ballgame accompanied by cheesy organ, sun drenched open air stadiums with gleaming outfield grass, beer, another beer, maybe a a 3rd beer by the 7th......nothing in the lexicon of sporting entertainment in this country can match the participation in nostalgic yearning for an experience that is so much more than just "consuming" an individual game, team, or season. Baseball is one means for many people, hard fans or not, of simply reclaiming, for a few hours on any given summer day, the feeling of occupying simpler, purer, less complicated time. It's hard to define, but it's there. We might think those who connect ot baseball in this way do so in a shallower, less committed than the passionate fan, and therefore more susceptible to permanently turning away. But I would disagree. The depth of the loyalty is just different, and is socially and culturally based. Even for the hardest of hardcore fans, the idea of baseball can provoke a visceral nostalgia that is not interested in "the business" side of things. The less "business" intrudes on this increasingly rare space in the minds of the public, the better off will be baseball. It just seems like this cultural cache is banked on by the practitioners of MLB as if it is an inexhaustible resource. It is their confident hedged bet played out against the possibility of alienating people with their unseemly PR warfare, and squabbles over things like pitch-clocks and the size of bases (what's up with that BTW-like WTH? The size of the bases? Really? I read something about injury concerns? Throwing a rock hard ball 100MPH at guy standing 60 ft distant is an injury concern too......I just don't get some of this. If anyone knows WTH the base size argument is about please enlighten me, I would be grateful.) Moments like these will test their confidence. Maybe they're right. People will come back, eventually, because baseball's strength is far deeper than dollars and cents, steroids, game times, juiced balls, etc.... This current moment though is damning of the powers that be, and a worrying sign, that owners and players alike, see MLB more as a commodity, to be consumed, a brand to be built, corporately and individually. If that's all it is for these guys, its just a very sad thing indeed, because they are occupying a different universe than most of the rest of us. It is way past time for owners, players, management, and agents to wake up to the reality that baseball is much more than a a business, or even a game. If they stepped out of their tightly built mental corporate and PR mental space, maybe they would find more common ground than they are able or willing to see right now. I'm just not holding my breath. Greed is greed, and stupid is stupid.

Yes and yes. This is a good thing. 12 year olds? That us truly sick.

Nick, kudos to you and TD staff for hanging on through this craziness, providing insightful analysis and content throughout. There are many ways I could describe your takes on these issues, but stupid is not among them. I am regularly challenged to reconsider my opinions by your and other TD articles and the discussions that ensue. TD offers excellence, fairness, fascinating features and a place where many varying opinions can be offered within a community that cares deeply about all of the issues plaguing MLB. This lockout is wearying and maddening in so many ways, but dont lose heart. This too shall pass they say. You and TD are the very best at what you do. And, there is much more these guys have to fight about, so there is lots more to cover. For example, this just in from MLBTR: https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/canceled-regular-season-games-raise-the-possibility-for-a-dispute-regarding-service-time.html

Thanks Ted for great reporting and follow through. MLBTR reporting good chance settlement later today.

Twins need to hire Frankie Sweet Music to teach Ryan that circle change. Would work just as well from the rt side and sure give a little more pop to that upzone 90. ?

Where is he now? Article from last summer, connected with Pensacola: https://www.pnj.com/story/sports/2021/06/28/divided-time-pensacola-seagulls-created-unifying-baseball-community/5373449001/

1965 WS b4 my time but what a great video and recap of his career. Trailblazer indeed. We are all the better for his skill, dedication, and resiliency. And what a great Game 6 memory....never saw that video b4, or knew he homered, pitched a CG shutout on 2 days....the game has changed. And how cool was that brilliant mid afternoon October sunshine WS game, Oct 13th, took 2hr's 16 min's. Great stuff, thanks for sharing.

Great report, and good to hear non40 guys are underway. This article brings home how disruptive the last 2 yrs have been, and for some this 3rd year ...how much potential has been lost in the chaos. Hopefully these guys can get back on track. Really interesting to hear the housing benefits improved at higher levels. If Twins want to get ahead of the curve the team would purchase or supply the same for all levels of minor league system. Would certainly help balance low wages. App-aw-lah-chian? Lay me down with a feather. Learn something new every day.

Great points, and totally agree. If they could deal for Maeda-like contract, that's more consistent. But those contracts are rare, who else is similiar in production and contract, and potentially available? More likely they look for another Odo-type deal as you thought, maybe just Odo himsekf part 2, What is clear enough is that it needs to be quality production, or projectible quality, at team-friendly dollars abd length. I think your statement abt A's and Reds is right. If they trade, its somewhere else.

Thanks Ted for raising ideas and realistic possibilities. I am admittedly confused by the direction of this FO, or lack thereof. Declining chance to extend Berrios, trading him for 2 prospects/suspects, no FA signings b4 lockout when E. Rodriguez was willing to take 5/77-a contract seemingly in Twins wheelhouse-but no apparent attempt to sign him.....now looking to trade prospects to obtain a SP that will presumably be Berrios- esque quality. It seems to me so circular. Whats the point of adding 2 prospects, only to trade 2 or more 6 months later for a guy to replace Berrios? Musical chairs. Throwing darts at the prospect board and hoping one is the bullseye? But apparently if that prospect develops to Berrios, or Rodriquez, level, Twins wont sign him long-term. I just dont understand the long game. Feels like Twins are trying to thread a very fine needle here to maximize value b4 having to pay market rate, or length, to maintain it. The prospect dart board never ends.

Love the story and history. I came to TD via Seth Speaks, it's been nothing but highest quality since. Attributable to the vision, hard work, and good beer that makes TD the best sports site anywhere. I hope all of you know what a great community you have built and sustained through pandemic and now lockout. Thank you to everyone who makes TD a special place to hang out.

Hunter Greene lost one season to TJ recovery, then covid season. Was up to aaa last year, would easily be Twins'#1 pitching prospect. McKay had thoracic outlet surgery after promising start in mlb. Both Greene and McKay signed for more bonus $$ than did Lewis. Projectability was not the only criteria in play during that draft. Lewis might be great someday, but there is no confusion that Twins value discounts on bonuses, so they can spend over slot on lesser prospects in later rounds, more than they value the projectability of a potentially generational talent like Hunter Greene. Quantity over quality....but also pennies over dollars. It strikes me as a strange way of building talent and prospect value in minor leagues.

The baseball gods have not been kind to young mr lewis the last 3 yrs. MLB could have given that covid season back for Rule5 purposes, but that would have been a decent thing to do. Too late now. But maybe its not just all fate at work. The 40 man roster has been set for over 100 yrs in mlb. Would it be too much to ask our warring heroes to consider updating/modernizing roster structures? Org's investments in drafting and developing players, both in money and time, and the extremely low chance of success of any one player having a sustantial mlb career, points to a need to expand mlb rosters and extend milb service time prior to R5 draft. Expand to 45 man rosters, and set age 25 as threshold for R5 eilgibility-these do not seem unreasonable updates to a creaky, antiquated system. Players should be given greater chance to develop within the system that signed them. Once the R5 merrygoround starts its over for most- the disruptions to consistency in development when bouncing around one org to another have to negatively impact guys on the margins. Give irg's greater opportunity to polish guys who fall behind or just need more time. There is talent on the margins beyond utility fillers or transient BP help. One wonders how many other Badoos were pigeon-holed too early because of injury, circumstance, or marginal-but-developable skills and subsequently lost to history simply because of a constrained, inefficent rostering system. MLB has creatively adapted to changing needs over tge last century, why is the rostering system still stuck in 1910? A detailed listing of roster limits throughout major league history follows. In-season Year(s) # Dates Off-season 1879-1882 5 Reserve limit 1883 11 Reserve limit 1884 25 25 1885-1886 12 Reserve limit 1887-1891 14 Reserve limit 1892 15 6/1892 13 14 1893-1898 14 1899-1900 18 Reserve limit 1901 NL 16 Cutdown date 6/15 AL 15 O/D + 28 days N/A 1902-1909 NL N/A 1902-1903 AL 15 6/1 N/A 1904 AL 16 N/A Cutdown date 6/1 1905 AL 17 N/A Cutdown date 6/15 1906-1909 AL N/A 1910 25 5/15-8/20 40 1911-1913 25 5/15-8/20 35 1914 N/A N/A 1915-1916 NL 21 5/1-8/31 35 AL 25 5/15-8/15 35 1917-1919 NL 22 5/15-8/31 35 1917 AL 25 5/1-8/31 35 1918 AL N/A N/A 1919-1920 25 5/15-8/31 35 1921-1922 25 5/15-8/31 40 1923-1931 25 6/15-8/31 40 1932 23 6/15-8/31 40 1933-1938 23 5/15-8/31 40 1939-1941 25 31st day-8/31 40 1942 25 5/25-8/31 40 1943 25 31st day-8/31 40 1944 25 6/15-8/31 40 1945 30 6/15-8/31 48 1946 30 6/15-8/31 48 1947-1956 25 31st day-8/31 40 1957-1961 28 O/D+30 days 40 25 31st day-8/31 1962-1965 same as 41 including 1 drafted first year player 1966-1967 1957-1961 40 1968-1989 25 O/D-8/31 40 1990 27 O/D-5/1 40 Due to lockout during spring training 25 5/1-8/31 1991- 25 O/D-8/31 40 Sources-Baseball Blue Book, 1910-1986; The Sporting News, The Sporting Life, New York Times, Reach Guide, Spalding Guide, 1900 National League Constitution, 1990 Basic Agreement

Great story. This is the kind of content that makes TD the best pro sports site there is? And Patrick Mahomes looks like he has seriously mad baseball chops, got his dad's arm plus some. Great story, and video!

....and it appears that will be every game after June 1st.

Gagne was partially developed by Twins, I believe 2 yrs in Twins minors after Smalley trade. Twins get partial credit for his and also Guzman's development. But thats a long time since Guzman, so yes, we have an issue, and not having drafted and developed a frontline SS is a red flag. Twins need to dedicate more resources to evaluating, drafting, developing talent at all levels of org, with emphasis on pitching, catchers, SS and CF's.

A succinct summation of the Twins Way

Thank you, great insights into all the work going on....dedicated staff for all these platforms! I never could have guessed. Shout outs today to Heather and Twins media staff?

Great story, as Tiantwindup said, these stories are what makes TD special. Never heard of Ron Henry until today, and really thankful TD and Seth are willing to create content like this and support BHM. Makes today a better day, thank you! Also never knew Denny McLain played the old Diamond Jim's. Fun facts, thanks Rosterman for that.

It's all very sad, not only in the fact that the season will be interrupted, but the spectacle of such a small # of people haggling over the distribution of enormous sums of money to such small #'s of people. Most of us posting on this site will never have to worry about whether our profit margins are counted hundreds of millions or billions of dollars, nor whether our annual salaries are too low at $600k +. MLBCorporate, which in the offseason in my mind includes the MLPBA as well as the owners exists in an alternative reality. Owners hoard money. Our economic system rewards such behavior. It is what it is. Personally, I would love to see a culture of profit-sharing model take hold throughout corporate America. CBA's are one tool in the profit sharing chest, but CBA's are only as good as the laws that allow and regulate them and the lawyers that write them. It is an adversarial system that relies on conflict and economic and legal leverage to determine winners and losers. And this is just sad. It would seem there is a lot there to go around, at least so I have read here and elsewhere. I dont know how much actually is " a lot". I assume "a lot" means enough for everyone? If that is true, I wonder then why the players have never tried to organize the many thousands of office and staff employees, so as to represent their interests as well as their own, in these CBA's. Why shouldn't these revenues also be distributed in some organized fashion to the people who make a fraction of the lowest paid MLB level rookie? And to the MiLB players. I get the fact that MLB players are elite, very elite, athletes. 3 million kids aged 6-12 participate in baseball each year, if most Google statistics are accurate. About 1200 will be drafted in the MLB draft each year, about .0004%. Of that group, 120 give or take will ever play a game in MLB. Of that group, a select few will make ridiculous amounts of money playing a kids game for a good chunk of their young adult lives. Good for them. Only 32 owners will make even more ridiculous sums managing franchises. Good for them. But they should not forget from where they came. They'd all do better by themselves and the fan base if they werent so self-focused. I agree with RJA, a mediator may help get things moving, but with or without one, eventually, someone will blink, something will get done, lost games will be made up, and by this November, its all a distant memory. But there will be a winner and loser, so whatever comes of this now only lays the groundwork for the next strike or lockout. If they could set aside ego long to acknowledge that they need each other to be successful, and they need a thriving MiLB system, and their staff employees, and the fans, and the kids and parents who keep a robust LIttle League pipeline moving (although with declining numbers-an area that should be of concern to everyone associated with promoting baseball), then they might begin to broaden their perspectives and find a better, less adversarial way forward. Until then, it is just wash, rinse, repeat. Sorry all for the venting folks. I know we are all frustrated, and we all have varying opinions on causality. I describe it in the way Cpt Benjamin Willard did in describing Vietnam in Apocalypse Now: " Charging someone with murder here is like handing out speeding tickets at the Indy 500." This situation is as much an ethical and moral problem as it is a legal or economic one.