ewen21

Martin could be childish, petty and blind drunk, (sometimes all three at the same time) but his priorities were always to win first and it had nothing to do with maintaining some legacy privilege. The fact is, Al Kaline was 37 years old in 1972 and there wasn't a DH. Martin needed to give Jim Northrup and Gates Brown at bats somehow. Kaline had a brilliant ending to the season in 1972 and maybe Marin's "load management" was a good thing for him. Martin had a had a great deal of respect for Kaline from what I can tell in the quotes I found. He was no longer and everyday player, The decrease in playing time had to do with age rather than some perceived perniciousness toward Kaline on the part of Martin.

I am not Minnesotan, so my first memory of Rich Reese was his 1972 baseball card. He was wearing a warmup jacket underneath his jersey and he pointed the end of the barrel of the bat right at the camera so as to obscure his face. Very strange pose. The only other baseball card I can remember like that is Walt "No Neck" Williams on his 1970 card.

He's a RESERVE Zoolander. Cannot stay on the field.

It's timbre for a conversation. I believe they call it "hot stove" talk

His WAR literally means nothing to me. If WAR is what you want to use then fine: Hunter had 26.5 WAR from his age 25 season to his age 30 season Buxton had 18 WAR from his age 25 season to his age 30 season. YOu still want to say Buxton is better? No, he is not even in his wildest dreams. The PROBLEM Buxton presents is that he's given special treatment, special considerations and rules and tons of leeway. You cannot treat a player this way not create accountability issues across the board. If he were a first ballot HOFer who is a team leader that polices himself then you can,

Sorry to disagree, but I do not think it is an extreme take. The Twins have basically given Buxton his own set of rules and that is destructive to an organization. If Buxton were like on a Derek Jeter level I might understand. Jeter was a player who earned the right to have "special treatment" but in the case of Buxton it was bestowed upon him. Buxton gets way too much consideration and is treated as though he is the Hope Diamond. It is actually extreme to have a backup plan for a player who is supposed to be in the prime of his career. I also disagree with you on your Buxton/Hunter comparison. Give me Torii Hunter in CF over Buxton every day and twice on Sunday. This "when healthy" stuff doesn't cut it. THere are 162 games on the schedule and if you can't even play in 100 of those you become a problem. Byron Buxton is a problem

The notion we have had to think about a “contingency plan” for this player since he was in his 20s tells you all you need to know. He’s 31 today and this isn’t going to magically get better. The mere fact the Twins have to think this way dilutes his value immensely. About a month ago there was an article about Buxton somehow becoming Torii Hunter. How can a Twins fan with any merit make such a comparison? It’s actually insulting. The Twins lowered bar so much for Buxton that is had a cumulative NEGATIVE affect on the team.

And then we let him walk after that season. Hit almost .290, played amazing defense and drove in 107 runs. Buxton hasn’t come close to that ever because he’s not a full time player. Case closed Sorry but it’s an insult to compare these two players.

Since Buxton hasn’t had a career resembling Hunter’s in any way, how can we expect him to suddenly change course now? By the way, it was literally a full four or five years before Hunter moved. No way on Gods green earth would Hunter have been asked to move from CF in his 31 year old season. Factually speaking, Hunter was regarded as the best defensive CF in the game and played in 160 games at age 31.

Dear lord..... In what world is Buxton's career comparable to Torii Hunter's? We all saw Torii Hunter play and that man did PLAY. Hunter collected 1.391 runs batted in for his career. If Buxton were to drive in 100 runs per year over the next ten seasons he STILL would not reach what Hunter did. Hunter accomplished more as a player after age 32 than Buxton has in his ten seasons as a Twin and it isn't even close. To bring even more clarity to this insane comparison, in the seven years AFTER the was traded from the Twins Hunter played in 999 games as an Angel and a Tiger. These were his age 32 to 38 seasons. There is no assurance Buxton will ever play in 1,000 games in his entire career if you ask me. Torii collected over 1,100 hits in the seven seasons playing with Anaheim and Detroit. Hunter's WAR during those seven seasons with LAA and DET is almost exactly the same as what Buxton has accomplished in his entire career. Never once did we need to be concerned about having a stand in CF when Hunter was a Twin. The fact that the Twins are compelled to assemble a roster that has a plan b centerfielder tells you all you need to know. Does anyone seriously think Buxton will flick on a switch in his 31 year old season and accomplish what Hunter did? Why even waste two seconds hoping that he does? It will never happen! I understand optimism, but when optimism overwhelms reality and logical thinking it is counterproductive. It is also a slight to Torii Hunter. Stop the insanity.

This article is precisely why Buxton cannot be considered a "star player" The comedy team?

He had 13 hits and 7 RBI in the second half on a team that had a monumental collapse. You wanna crown him “Team MVP” go ahead. We have another article saying “What was the point?” signing him. There’s your MVP.

Return to form? Superstar? Elite? What’s with the Buxton obsession and the absurd requirement that everyone go along with the silly superlatives. He’d had greater than 76 hits in a season just ONCE coming into this year. His lifetime average is .243 and his lifetime OBP is .304. He had 99 hits this year. FACTS!! Since when is this a superstar? That’s an extremely biased opinion from a Twins fan who can’t accept of Twins fans don’t like this player. Are you just trolling now? Please cut it out. I’m a Twins fans so this getting embarrassing. Ohtani, Judge and Lindor had superstar seasons. Bobby Witt Jr had a superstar season. Stop it. Please!

He's making a case to replace Rocco. That much is clear. What are you arguing? Is it that you want to be contrarian to those who want him gone even though you "literally said" you did not know if he should be kept or not? I actually think the Rocco bashing has become ridiculous. It is a distraction from what I see as the real problem: our GM alliance. They hired a guy like Rocco for a reason, and that was he could be molded and controlled by them. Whether that was explicitly stated by them or not doesn't matter. Why else would they hire someone with no managerial credentials? I wanted Rocco gone long ago, but I also realize switching managers under this current configuration of leadership will not matter at all. That's why I think all this is sort of silly. They will pick another manager that is philosophically aligned with their interpretations of how to use analytics. Then again, I can relate to Chief and Aggies7. Why shouldn't we simply axe him? He has had six seasons and that's plenty of time to create a culture. He ABSOLUTELY has a lot to do with that and I believe we need better leadership in the clubhouse. That would include some of the players who have been tabbed as leaders. Only thing is, we are stuck with them.

I wanted him gone after the one and done in the 2019. His “I’m not frustrated at all” comment basically sums up the atmosphere that’s been around here FOREVER. Any remember Michael Cuddyer labeling 2010 a “successful season” after being swept once again the first round? It’s woven into the fabric. I’m afraid ditching Rocco is the equivalent of moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. We need to go wayyyy deeper.

Duplicated post

Sorry for the duplicate

You sound like a historian. Did you watch Larry Hisle as a Twin and a Brewer back when the Brewers were in the AL? He was a very good player. In his five years with the Twins Hisle produced higher totals in hits and RBI than Buxton has in his entire career. Sounds crazy, but it's true. Buxton hit more homers and scored more runs, but that is all he has on Larry Hisle's offensive output: What's more, Hisle played in 662 games in his five years and collected 697 hits; while Buxton has collected 639 over a career that spans ten seasons and 772 games. In Larry Hisle's five seasons in Minnesota he also drove in 409 runs compared to Buxton's 353 in 110 fewer games played! Hisle scored 369 runs in five seasons to Buxton's 426 runs scored FOR HIS ENTIRE CAREER. Even with the 110 extra games played, being put in to pinch run and with all that speed. Like I said, Hisle was a nice player. He hit .286 with a 354 OBP, a ,457 SLG and an OPS of .811. Who would you rather have in your lineup? In my opinion, Buxton needs to do what Hisle did as a 31 year old in order for me to take him seriously.

How about this instead… He cannot hold up to the rigors of daily life in Major League Baseball.

Chet Lemon was a nice player. It’s not a slight to say he’s not even close to being a “borderline HOFer”. Guys with under 2,000 hits are not borderline HOFers. Ashbury said he had a better career than Buxton and that’s all he needed to say. No need to postulate or explain the reason why that is. At the end of the day it’s about achievement and not potential or what ifs. I never got an explanation as to why Buxton gets all these articles desperately trying to elevate his status. What’s the point? Honestly. Stop telling your readers what we are seeing isn’t really what we are seeing. Players play. Remember Mike Lamb? He hit 12 to 14 HRs a few times in around 300 at bats before we got him. I remember talking to an enthusiastic fan about him before he arrived and was told we can expect between 25-30 HRs if he just became an every day player. Right. If the queen had two balls she’d be king. It’s the same thing with Buxton. No one wants to hear it after ten seasons. Whether he can, can’t or won’t all we know is he DOES NOT play half of the time and we have an extremely large sample size: A TEN YEAR CAREER

I have CLAIMED that in the past, but he has improved as a hitter so I don’t say he can’t hit. I post his lifetime stats as a reminder that he’s no great offensive player. I assume you remember a player named Chet Lemon. Do you think Buxton’s career is shaping up to be better than his? Was Chet Lemon ever doused with such lavish praise? He was an above average player. A nice player. And he’s better than Buxton. I’ve watched MLB since 1972. I was a subscriber to Baseball Digest from about 1977 to 1984. Read all the baseball stats you can find. I just don’t understand all the positive ink he gets, nor can I fathom the sensitivity to any criticism he gets on the part of crowd of folks here.

As if the 45 million he made playing in Minnesota wasn't enough. Outside of the second half of last year, Max has been lackluster and underachieving ever since the Bomba Squad left town.

It won't be mine, but this is an anti-Twins fan article.

Based on what? We do know he walked out on his teammates in Rochester when after a miserable 2018 he was not called up. We also know he had a couple of Twitter exchanges with Twins fans calling them clowns. He is just a dude to me. What makes in "such a good dude" to you?

And let's not forget he had an absolutely BRUTAL 2018 and then when he was not called up in September he flipped out and left his teammates in Rochester. He cleaned out his locker and left with a couple of games left to play. I thought that was unprofessional and the was the moment he lost me. It was reported he didn't return phone calls. He'd hit .156 in 2018 and was not even hitting .240 in Rochester until just days before September callups. The Twins made a baseball decision and he needed to swallow that. What did he end up saying? "I don't know what more I have to do"