KirbyDome89

No no no...My point was slightly tongue in cheek but I meant teams stand to earn more from healthy repeat customers over time rather than those suffering from heart disease. Individuals with chronic health aliments aren't frequenting events at the same rate as those without them, and they certainly aren't matching lifespans either. We're speaking in extreme generalities here but a long term outlook is rosier if teams aren't feeding (literally) into the #1 affliction the US suffers from. I think I've made the exact opposite contention. We're talking about guys who beat the hell out of their bodies over a short period of time. Even if it's 5X the normal usage rate, that still a small percentage of total players. We're speculating but I'd wager that MLB spends much more on chronic physical aliments than they do on cancer linked directly to chewing. Sure, they might save a little $, but as I said before there are more impactful ways of saving $ and protecting the product/revenue that would be just as easy to implement. I think the fact that they aren't addressed says a lot about the motivation behind banning tobacco.

Short term yes, but they also stand to make a lot more long term by holding onto customers. That's the inconsistency. I think that player health could certainly be a factor, I just don't buy the idea it's near the top of the list for banning chew. Ha, in one sitting, sure. It doesn't take too many of them over time to start doing some damage though.

Honestly I'd rather they not get rid of any of it, and adults were allowed to make their own decisions. Buxton is a grown man, I think it's safe to assume he knows the risks associated with chewing at this point. He's no longer an impressionable youngster. I agree that there always has to be a first domino to fall, but like I said before, if MLB is actually serious about the health of those involved there are larger dominoes to topple that would be just as easy as banning chew. That leads me to believe this is more about PR, i.e. "think of the children," rather than actual concern.

I agree with Nick that holding up one side as "worse," to exonerate the other is a weak argument, but Aggies is right about the hypocrisy. Heart disease affects exponentially more people than cancer due to smokeless tobacco, yet ballparks are more than willing to push out 3000 calorie platters of artery clogging garbage to their fanbase. That absolutely has a direct financial impact. IMO banning chewing tobacco is purely PR. They can spin it as a concern for health, but that comes off as entirely hypocritical when you consider what they're selling to the fanbase that kicks in tax money to pay for the stadium, generates concession/ticket revenue, and purchases tv viewing packages.

Meh maybe we're reading into the thread differently. I see most of the concern directed at moving forward rather than performance in April or May. IMO the last 2 weeks have been a wake up call although I'd argue that some of the warning signs were present even when things were rolling at the beginning of the season. I agree, the bullpen held together nicely the first couple months, but I also think the numbers are a bit deceiving. Bank the performance thus far, just don't expect those numbers to continue or improve.

Neither are saves or holds. It's hard to blow huge leads even for the worst bullpens. The bullpen has thrown the 2nd fewest innings in baseball thanks to a slow schedule to start the season and some deep games by the starting staff. Until recently they hadn't been taxed at all. With Perez looking like the guy we thought he was, Gibson once again struggling to find consistency, and Pineda being a 5ish inning guy, the warts that were largely ignored have become much more apparent.

I'm starting to allow myself to get my hopes up for this team. That's scary. The last time I felt this good about a Twins squad I was a freshman in college. Ahhh the good old days.....

After another month+ of this I might be right there with you. I've never said he's been lucky, or that he hasn't made adjustments. Perez started the year in the pen and the results weren't great. Since moving to the rotation he's been lights out in 5 starts, 4 of which have come against Baltimore and Toronto. I'm happy with what he's been so far, but 40 IPs, the bulk of which are against bad lineups, is way too little to feel comfortable penciling him in as a solid arm for the rest of the season.

I haven't knocked the production.

It doesn't mean nothing, but it certainly isn't going to change my mind about the 200+ innings he posted the previous two seasons. I still put more stock in those results rather than 8 innings in a single game during April. Like I said, enjoy the early production; the Twins don't have to give it back, but I'm nowhere near proclaiming Perez is a changed man.

Meh, I'll definitely take the production but facing Baltimore and Toronto 3/4 games isn't enough to change what I thought and continue to think of the signing.

Of the crew you mentioned I'm comfortable with Schoop moving forward. He seems to have bounced back and having his bat in the lineup is certainly a plus. Cron has been about what I expected, low OBP, high K with some pop, and capable of handling 1B. Cruz has been the anchor offensively. Parker has appeared in 11 games but has only 9 IPs so I don't think anybody knows what the Twins have in him. As far as Perez goes I'd say enjoy this while it lasts. I'm not confident in Perez being a competent pitcher all season, or even sticking in the rotation, but if/when that happens MN won't have to give back his contributions over his last 4 starts. Ultimately this team did bargain hunt. The bullpen isn't good, and there were plenty of arms available as well as ample $$ to make it happen.

Anybody else feel a little guilty about checking out of some of the games over the weekend? Baltimore is so bad I opted for the NBA playoffs rather than watch the Twins pound a minor league team. MN doesn't have to apologize for feasting on a historically awful team. They did exactly what they should've and they'll likely need all of those wins they racked up the last two weekends. That said, this week will be a much better indicator of where this team is at.

I think this is where a vast majority of us are at, the only difference being varying degrees of comfort with moving on from Castro.

This looked like what those Toronto teams in 14' and 15' used to do to the Twins.

Teams wins while Castro is behind the plate are about as relevant as pitching wins, i.e. they're not.32 PAs isn't a SSS? 39 innings caught apparently was for Willians.It's convenient that the minimum PAs for catchers in determining these rankings was set at 32, that just happens to be the exact number Castro has on the year. Castro can't hold Mauer's jock when it comes to handling the bat, there's no need to even mention the two in the same breath. His OBP as the 8th hitter is the ultimate SSS, but even worse his numbers are being mashed together with far more productive hitters in the bottom third and he's being given equal credit for the aggregate stats. Pitcher ERA while each guy is catching doesn't really tell us anything. That point was made clear when Castro's rising CERA was excused due to Stewart and Romero tanking the rubber match in Houston.Yes, he's a superior pitch framer. That's never been questioned. I don't see many arguing that Castro isn't a major league catcher. The point being made is that he brings far less offense to the table than either Astudillo or Garver, and a majority of his defensive value is tied to pitch framing. Castro's m.o. isn't that of a guy who's going to gun out runners or smother balls in the dirt. If Astudillo falls off or Garver gets hurt than of course having Castro would be great. The versatility of Marwin and Willians allows Castro to take up an active roster spot without putting the team in a bind. I won't cry if he finishes the season with the team, but I'd like to see more of Garver/Astudillo, and if the Twins get a decent offer, and the duo of Garver/Astudillo continue as they have, then I certainly wouldn't lament a trade. There are a lot of reasons the 19' Twins are playing better than their 18' counterpart, Castro is way down on that list. Yeah, it's a coincidence more than anything.

I at least expected this team to compete I guess. They rolled over last night and didn't bother to show up to tonights game. There has to be a missing persons out on Marwin at this point...

The early return on Perez hasn't been great either. So we hope he lasts as a back end starter all year? Then we hope either Stewart or Romero become stable enough to stick in the rotation? Those are two huge question marks and even if the Twins luck out there are two remaining spots to fill. It also doesn't address the desperate need for front end arms. It's a bad situation.

It's hard to blame coaches/usage when Mejia was handed a 2 run lead and a clean inning.

I'll take 6-4 too but their record shouldn't mask the issues the pitching staff has had to start the year. There were plenty of posters pointing out that a rotation with a penchant for short starts and a below average bullpen could be a serious problem. Perez doesn't look like he belongs on a major league roster, let alone the starting rotation right now, and Odorizzi continues to implode after getting through a lineup twice. I guess we can cross our fingers and hope that Pineda stays healthy/effective and Gibson finds the same stride he did last year.

According to Schoop during a ST interview that wasn't the case. He could just be unwilling to admit it, but I'm not sure why that'd be.

IMO the W-L record doesn't mean much of anything over those years. All of those rosters suffered from underperformance and a lack of talent, especially on the pitching side. There are much better measures of Sano's value to this team; using the W-L record over the last 4 seasons seems a bit disingenuous.

No, likely not, but he would fill a much greater need. I think it's more likely that the bullpen will cost this team wins than the 10th man on the bench, so that's where I'm coming from with tamping down a bit of the hype surrounding the Gonzalez signing. Look, the Twins upgraded at a position. I'll always be happy about that and I'd love to see similar moves in the future. My only point was that the upgrade came at a position that was further down the list of needs, and so the gap between the production they could've expected vs. the production they can expect moving forward very likely doesn't move them to a position where they're .500 at worst.

He's capable of playing multiple positions and he'll be the first in line to slide into a starting spot at nearly every one of them should injury or ineffectiveness occur. I'm not sure there's a better definition of utility. Yeah, he's a league average offensive player, and a clear improvement over Adrianza, but nobody is contesting that. My point was that his addition doesn't now set the floor for this team at a level above .500.

We agree that he helps solidify the active roster, but IMO he doesn't cement this team as above .500. I'm with Chief on this one, he's a nice utility guy to have, and I'm glad the team made an upgrade, but I don't think he really moves the needle much in either direction. There's no doubt thats valuable, but I think his potential impact is being a bit overstated.