KirbyDome89

"Hasn't enjoyed their pitch" = They're offering under other teams....

Not really disputing any of that, but if the Pohlads are truly the only reason the Twins haven't reached the level of spending that they should, then this FO has to be better about managing that reality. I believe ownership has a lot to do with it, but based on what we've heard from both Falvey and Levine it's hard not to see them as timid after their most recent bout of inactivity. I'd love to see MN spend north of 140M, and I think they owe it to the public after years of being terrible and keeping payroll in the bottom third of the league. I agree with a lot of what the FO says in regards to where this organization needs to go. The issue is that what they're saying and what they're doing don't align, at least in regards to the current team. The ambiguous buzzwords and catchphrases, the schilling by media to excuse the inactivity and lack of spending, and the rebranding of tired old habits as innovative has started to grind on me personally.

It's sarcasm

I agree that this team isn't anywhere close to significantly better than last year, but the bullpen moves the FO made this year aren't on par with Blake Parker. Both Romo and Clippard are a step above. Neither is a huge boost but they likely won't be DFA'd before the trade deadline.

My point is that both teams you're referencing as examples of why MN shouldn't push in, actually have more playoff success in 1-2 year spans than the Twins have in nearly 3 decades. I'm not sure why you've latched onto the win total debate when the idea of my OP was clear, but then yes, 2 wins > 1, and we're looking at nearly 30 years, not 17.

Toronto pushed KC to 6 games; MN lost in 5 games. Last I checked 2 wins is closer than 1..... The Twins were 0-7 in the postseason this decade. They were 6-18 in the previous decade with only one series victory. Is that "sustained contention?" Runs of contention are cyclical. What the Twins did, and continue to do, doesn't work. Teams that are in desperate need of a talent boost, and allow fear to hold them back from achieving said boost, lest they lose out on a potential early playoff exit down the road, is the epitome of shooting for mediocrity.

Perez didn't improve as the season went on. He had a couple career months and reverted right back to the same poor pitcher he was in 18'. If that's the "improvement," we're hoping to get from Bailey then MN is better off looking elsewhere.

Perez was a liability by the end of last season. I wouldn't count him as anything close to a success story for this FO. Has the bar for rotation spots really been lowered all the way to "hope he has a career 2 months that make his season look middling?"

To continue the analogy: We keep hearing "there's time left." What goes ignored is that poor past performance makes it exponentially more difficult to achieve a high mark. The Twins are the like the kid who gets a D and a C- on the first two exams but maintains he'll just ace the final. We might still be 7 weeks away from pitchers and catchers reporting, but all passable FAs (the least painful route to adding a front end arm) are gone, which makes the task of landing a starter before spring more daunting. Teams like AZ (Ray) and NYM (Thor) look like they're going to at least start the season trying to win their respective divisions. How many other realistic targets do the Twins have? How many other teams also need/want pitching? Even if the Twins identify an arm to go after, what has this FO done to suggest they're willing to pay the necessary price? So sure, there's time, but that argument is closing in on itself.

The time to "see what you have," in regards to young players was when this club was losing 90+ games per season. There's no scenario where running out Dobnak, Smeltzer, and Graterol for 2-3 months is a good idea. The rotation isn't talented enough to carry that trio. Those early season games matter just as much as the ones in September. Ask Cleveland.....

They lost the ALCS in 6 games to the eventual WS champs. For reference, that Toronto team came closer to a WS than the Twins have been in almost 30 years. They also won more playoff games that postseason than MN has won this entire decade. I'd say the Jays are an argument for pushing in, rather than shooting for sustained mediocrity.

They also sold a 2nd round pick rather than pay dead money to Phil Hughes. Payroll was lower last season than it was in 18', and likely would've been closer to 100M had Sano not been injured to start the year. The FO has been willing to take on small amounts of $$ and dabble in smaller trades. I don't see anything in either their spending or trade history to suggest there's a strong willingness to pull the trigger on the type of deal that'd be required to bring in a front line starter. They've played it safe, and it has improved the team in the margins, but they need to do better than that. The clock to acquire better starting pitching didn't start at the deadline last year. They've had three years to make moves in that regard, and they've been content to pad the middle/back end of the rotation and sign guys to short term deals. I don't have any sympathy for a FO that put themselves in this position. There isn't a magical "right time," to sign an impact player.

Falvine has not collaboratively come up with black eyes like “bilateral leg weakness.” I don't think the ambiguity of the current batch of buzzwords is particularly praiseworthy. That leaves us questioning where the club turns, but it’s worth suggesting that this front office very likely may have intended this path all along. They planned to fail in FA this offseason? If trades were their intended route all along then why not make an effort to find a starter at the deadline last season? Why feed local media the "we're in on...." lines? Not that their offer to Wheeler was anywhere near the top bidders, but why bother even submitting if they weren't even intent on landing a FA? Suggesting that the plan all along was to lose out on FA and be forced to pay steeper prices on the trade market seems like a rather rosy take.

This always goes overlooked. If Sano is healthy to start the season the Twins likely don't sign Marwin and the payroll would've hovered around 100M.

? So don't load up to compete this year because every significant player on the Twins will miss either all or major parts of the season? That's awful logic......

I'm all for making deadline moves, but I don't think any team should hold back to start the season with the intention of maxing the budget at the deadline. A move in July should be in addition to, not a completion of, a contending team.

Agreed, and they'll certainly be more expensive, but doesn't that fly in the face of the premise of the article? Why wait until July 31st and guarantee yourself a massive price tag?

What would be unexpected about being in a position to compete?

Money. It's the sole focal point for some fans, which has become draining. Yes, the Twins (and many other suitors) were outbid for Wheeler. They never could've even dreamed of approaching the contracts handed out to Gerrit Cole, Stephen Strasburg, or Anthony Rendon. While this will inevitably invoke utterances of "Cheap Pohlads" from a certain crowd, those folks need to face facts: The Twins are never going to have the uninhibited spending flexibility of a Philadelphia, New York, Washington, or Los Angeles. The Rendon-Cole argument is a strawman. Nobody had expectations of landing Cole, despite what his addition could do for this team. The bar was lowered to Ruy, Wheeler, and Bumgarner from the onset, and now 2 of them are already off the table. The Twins could've beaten either the Wheeler or Bumgarner deals without pushing beyond reasonable payroll expectations. They chose not to do so. Minny. Look, I know most Minnesotans hate this shorthand but I needed it for the wordplay so please let it slide. As much as I love Minneapolis, I recognize that we're not the most appealing destination for high-profile free agents and their families. Money talks, but it's narrow-minded to believe that's the overriding factor in every decision, especially for the most in-demand players. All four of the aforementioned free agents – Wheeler, Cole, Strasburg, Rendon – went from famed big-market cities to other famed big-market cities. Wheeler, from what I've heard, notified the Twins more or less that he wasn't interested. Show me the FA contract offer this organization tenders, which beats every other team, and the FA that turns it down, and then we can start blaming geography. Narrow-minded is defaulting to the "they didn't want to come here," schtick while this organization continues to underbid. Money isn't an overwhelming encumbrance – ownership's willingness to spend was made clear by the apparent green-lighting of a massive offer to Wheeler, which healthily exceeds the amount Bumgarner got – but the Twins can't endlessly outbid competitors with deep pockets and built-in preference. I'm not sure why fans would yearn for it. They did the same thing with the offer to Darvish. Is money not an encumbrance so long as FAs are willing to accept 20% less than market value, or is the FO entirely unwilling to pull the trigger? Either way, it doesn't bode well for this team moving forward. I believe the Twins are serious about doing everything within their power to strike a sensible deal with these players. Sensible at this point has to be taken to mean "a steal," which runs counter to everything FA is. And this is the developing reality Twins fans may need to come to grips with: An offseason defined more by savvy than splash. Disappointment. FTFY This front office has shown a keen eye for pitching talent, and a special ability to develop arms. Are we trying to speak this into existence?

If you include the guys they selected and forced onto the active roster it looks even less palatable. I'm happy they've just stayed away from the Rule V the last few years.

Yet apparently we're morons for believing the Twins would put a PR spin on their refusal to spend what it takes to land top talent.

What exactly were the two "morons," Mackey quoted wrong about? When have the Twins shown willingness or proficiency in spending top dollar to acquire elite talent? What moves has the new FO executed that signals a change from this organizations aversion to spending? Remain optimistic if you want, I'm still clinging to hope they acquire at least one starter at or above the talent level of Berrios, but pessimism is warranted. The irony of Mackey calling fans morons, while ignoring decades of revenue going unspent and propping up low FA bids as evidence of change is just too sweet.....

Odorizzi's 15' and 16' seasons are on par with what he did this year. If 2017 counts towards his TB tenure than he has to own last season as part of his time with MN as well. Also, he was a completely different pitcher in the 2nd half of this season. It's still a good move by the FO, but I wouldn't say the organization "turned Odorizzi around," and I'd certainly stop short of saying the Twins have a knack for developing pitching at this point.

Thome posted a barely higher OPS and a considerably higher OPS+ than Cruz did if we're comparing single seasons. I'd give the nod to Jim considering he had his monster year when the rest of the league wasn't smashing home runs at a record breaking pace.

As a fan it makes total sense to want the extra year. You're the right, the Twins had the option to take the year, and legally speaking they did nothing wrong. That said, it doesn't mean the organization's decision was necessarily right from a relations standpoint, or that it's best for the long term outlook. If the decision to send Buxton home is chalked up as simply business then fine; it's the other rationalizations that really have no base.