KirbyDome89

I'll start by saying I'm "ok," with the move but I don't love it. I'm not sold on Rosario's ability to control an AB. He is never going to be a walk machine and his K/BB ratio is extremely ugly but as long as he recognizes which "bad," pitches he can drive and which ones he can't he'll be able to survive at the major league level. If Escobar is out for 1-2 weeks,Nunez plays everyday, and then is moved at the deadline this makes sense. If he's out an extended period of time, Nunez plays everyday at SS and isn't moved we have another Arcia situation.

I have to pick at a few things. It seems like we're on the same page, meaning we both agree the Twins viewed this season as a step forward rather than the downhill slide it has been. Nobody saw Palka breaking out the way he has, so creating a spot for him on the roster as opposed to him forcing the Twins to make room wasn't likely to happen. I think the duo of Nunez and Escobar was a better choice for a team that saw themselves as contenders. Desmond is having a nice half season but Beresford doesn't belong on a MLB roster, Santana might not either but thats another story. I don't believe whiffing on Nishioka means the team has an ugly history of missing on Asian talent. I'm glad the Twins rolled the dice on Park, there is a ton of baseball talent over there and even if Park is a complete bust, I hope the team continues to try to sign that talent. I also think the contract Park signed isn't going to hamper the Twins. Three million a year for 4 years is nothing in terms of overall payroll. Tommy Milone was tendered 4.5 million, Casey Fien was making just under 3 million, our beloved former closer Jepsen is making 5 million. The Twins had no trouble tossing these guys aside, so they shouldn't have a problem keeping Park at AAA until he adjusts, and if that time never comes, the money shouldn't pose any sort of significant barrier for the team. Trading Plouffe would've been nice in the offseason but it just doesn't seem like anybody was willing to give up anything for him. David Freese was the "big name FA 3B,"and all he could muster was a 1 year 3 million dollar deal. I think expectations of what Nunez might net the Twins right now after potentially being the team's ASG rep need to be tempered. He likely wouldn't have brought back much of anything had the team looked to move him in the offseason. Escobar probably had the most value but if you can't move Plouffe, and Nunez is bringing back a marginal prospect at best, then it becomes Eddy's 2 million vs. Desmond's 8-10 million. That is without taking in consideration at that point their careers they were trending in very opposite directions. The Arcia thread blew up so I won't really dive into that here but I will say Park wasn't the reason the team gave up on him. I think the scenario you proposed is a plausible one. It just has a lot of moving parts and I'm not sure all of them could have been worked out. Really, it boils down to the fact I was glad to see the team take a risk and sign Park. It was completely opposite of what we've seen from the FO and I viewed it as a step in the right direction. I'm hopeful they continue to make aggressive moves like the signing, yet I'm quite fearful that a SSS of failure in that department may deter them from striking out of their comfort zone again.

Are we seriously trying to compare Arica to Sano? I wasn't a fan of the move, especially the way in which the Twins handled the whole situation but, in the words of Chris Carter...."C'mon man."

I agree, I don't mind if the Twins wait until the offseason if they're going to replace TR. I'm also hopeful that if TR is replaced, its by somebody outside the organization. I don't understand how anybody could view an internal promotion (Antony) as anything but a giant let down. Keeping the status quo isn't the answer.

I agree it is going to take time with the younger players. I think the issue with development is spot on. Making sure a player is ready to play at the MLB level when they're promoted, not wasting option years, making sure when players are up they're getting playing time not sitting on the bench, giving a young player a chance to fail before shipping them back down (especially when you're the worst team in baseball); these are all a part of player development.

That is a dangerous road to travel down....

I think you've confused loyalty with blind acceptance/support

I'm hopeful that May can use some "rehab," time to stretch out a bit, it would be nice to see him in the starting rotation again. I agree that just because the team is bad it doesn't mean you get rid of anybody who has value, but they should always listen. If they get a decent offer for Santana then they should flip him. Next season they'll have Gibson, May, Berrios, and Duffey. Santana fits nicely to complete the rotation but I don't see him as a key piece. The staff has been terrible this year even with him and I don't see him or the staff improving a ton while he stays. The Twins won't miss his contract either. Its a sad statement, but if they're going to have a terrible starting rotation, then it might as well be a cheap one so monetary resources can be allocated to other areas of need (I'm trying to convince myself they will). Also if they can get a player or two who will be ready to contribute in a couple years when the team is (hopefully) better, that is more beneficial than having Santana with the team pitching through losing/mediocre seasons until his contract ends.

If the player isn't capable of hitting major league pitching thats correct. But, if we're talking about a guy who has shown 25-30 HR a year potential and is out of options then steady ABs and consistent playing time are needed, if for nothing more than to make a fair assessment. For a team that is 24-51 and had an OF that was in shambles for most of the season to be unable to do that is egregious.

Good to see Santana back in CF. Molitor must've decided Buxton needed another day off after having Sunday and Monday off. We wouldn't want Buxton to get too many ABs....

Prospects are always volatile but its the only option. Its extremely difficult to have sustained success if you're trying to construct a team via free agency and trades. The Twins "plan," has centered around the players drafted over the past 5-6 years. Now that some of those players are ready for their shot at the MLB level they need to be given an opportunity.

The entire point of the rebuild the past 5 (4 really) years was to stock up on young talent and let it take over. Waiting to trade those players until they are ready for a shot in majors makes no sense.

He is out of options next year, which means the Twins need to give him ABs to find out what they have or history (Arcia) is doomed to repeat itself. There is no point in bringing Polanco up to waste away on the bench. If the Twins won't clear a spot for him then he should be in AAA playing every day.

Agreed there isn't really an easy decision. I'm hoping they can turn Nunez into something by the trade deadline. The contract is cheap, but that guy is going to come back down to earth at some point and it would be nice to see the Twins try to cash in. I don't particularly want to see Escobar traded. Nunez can't be a regular at SS and Polanco's defense is in question as well. If Polanco can't handle SS then you're right back where you started, trying to find room for him to play, but this time you have to either force Dozier out or trade Polanco.

I agree that tying up any significant portion of payroll in a bullpen isn't a great idea. I like the strategy of having hard throwing youngsters coming up to work the low leverage early innings and after they've established themselves, they can be trusted with late inning work. This keeps the bullpen cost down and gives the team more financial flexibility elsewhere. The Twins have some guys at or near the top of the minors who can start taking those early innings. At that point the hope is that as former prospects move into closer and setup roles and become expensive, the Twins won't be forced to hand out big/long contracts. Instead they can promote from within the bullpen. Essentially its an assembly line of relief pitching that keeps rolling through the organization. Obviously some longer deals will be handed out and trades will be made but following a template similar to this, the Twins should't have to worry about overpaying for relief pitching. If TR can add a few guys like a Burton or Fien to round out the nucleus of the pen then thats great (although hopefully he stops holding onto them for 1 year too long) The biggest problem is that the first group of young guys coming up are still too far away. Signing a couple reliable bullpen arms to 2 year (maybe 1 year) deals would have bridged the gap. The Burton/Fien/Abad types are nice snags off the reliever heap, but if they're surrounded by unreliable/terrible pitchers in the pen it negates their positive impact.The Twins pitching has been horrendous this year and the bullpen is a big part of that, so I can't say that the pen is the least of the team's problems. I agree they have a lot of issues, but I also think this is up near the top.

A nice June doesn't make up for all of last year and the first 1/3 of this season. Its nice to see Suzuki finally start hitting a bit but he isn't going to fetch anything of value in a trade. If the Twins can somehow flip him for a low level prospect then great but I'm not counting on it. He won't reach enough ABs to hit his vesting option (The Twins would never right? RIGHT!?). All we can do is sit back and enjoy the axe show.

The comparison is actually pretty good but I would argue it the other way. The Twins knew what they had in Dean, a AAAA player who could get a few guys out in the big leagues if needed in a pinch. Jones is a hard thrower who has struggled with command but if he settled down could be a big league asset. Pitchers like Dean are readily available, just like middle IF with below average hitting and defense (Santana) are. Arcia might have a limited skill set but the skill he does possess is hard to find. You know what you're getting with Santana and it isn't good. Why not roll the dice on Arcia and actually give him consistent ABs? Even if he flames out, at the end of the day you're in the same position you were with Santana, a bad player holding a spot on the 25 man roster. As a side note I don't think the move should be viewed as Arica vs. Santana. There were plenty of other options available where the Twins could have kept both players. To me its another example of the Twins seeking comfort in the evil they know.

Arcia's numbers last year were brutal. They aren't impressive so far this year either. But lets be honest, the "chance," the Twins gave him this season was sporadic playing time over the course of 3+ months. Robbie Grossman (our savior?) has more PAs in a month than Arcia has all season. I've commented on a lot of this in the other thread. SydneyTwinsfan nailed it on the OF situation. We've already hashed out the other player moves that could have been made rather than DFA Arcia. I'm not a Santana fan so I understand the added frustration of keeping him over Arica, but I think the bigger issue is that the Twins exposed a potential 30+ HR guy to waivers when they didn't have to.

TR will just say "Put this one on me, I should be held accountable." We've heard it before, and we'll hear it again. Yet, if there are no consequences for their actions, then there cannot be accountability right?

Arcia is a flawed player. He was terrible last year, but he absolutely can play at the major league level. I'm not sure how many organizations can just throw away 30+ HR power but I know the Twins aren't in a position to do that. Its frustrating that they'll give up talent and get nothing back. Its going to be even more maddening to watch him hit homers for another team. The most infuriating part though is the fact that a 20-46 team couldn't find a way to get Arcia consistent ABs before making a final decision on him. It blows my mind. Buxton and Kepler were both sent down this year, while Sano and Santana have been hurt. Grossman was signed less than a month ago, and yet Arcia couldn't sneak in some relatively consistent playing time? To top it off you have multiple position players with options (Park, Kepler) and a handful of scrub pitchers (Boshers, Ramirez) who nobody will lose sleep over if they're gone. I don't think Arcia is going to be Ortiz 2.0, but I do think he's a talented player who shouldn't be tossed out.

That is a very fair question and its definitely one component of the problem. I think its too early to pass any judgement on Buxton and Kepler, especially after the way they've been handled. Rosario and Santana fell a little further than most expected but both were free swingers with little to no command of the strike zone so it isn't a shock to see the MLB struggles. If dregs are in place because players in the minors aren't quite ready to move then I'm alright with it (admittedly its hard to watch though.) If dregs are in place because because the FO did nothing all winter long and placed the only chance for success on the shoulders of unproven/young players then its a problem. I understand everybody wants to see the prospects get time. I do too. I just think there has to be a plan B and C when it becomes evident that some prospects need more time. There clearly were no such backup plans as the Twins were drunk off the aberration that was the 2015 record. At this point its hard to see what plan A was as well.

Both aspects were previously mentioned and I commented on each. I said Sano's current weight has 0 impact because he's in baseball shape. Like I said IMO the weight and offseason prep aren't the reason for the struggle on the field. If there are no negative consequences of the request then there isn't any blame to assign to Sano. So yep, chalk it up to fundamental disagreement.

Yep I think its an agree to disagree situation. IMO there are no perfect players, everybody has a flaw or aspect of their game that could improve. Ceilings are subjective and placed on players before they've even seen MiLB competition. I find it annoying that writers like Reusse choose to hyperfocus on a flaw in a great players game in order to justify some childish vendetta he has. Hopefully Sano does have a HOF shot in 10 years. At that point our only worry is whether or not he's still a Twin ha.

In fairness this was the first time you've mentioned the work ethic aspect so I had to assume the issue of blame for performance dealt with the weight. I can't say I agree with either so IMO there isn't anything to put on Sano but I can say I definitely was part of the skeptical crew also.

Feel free to look through the thread at my previous comments. I said Sano was in shape and there was no need to drop 10 lbs. Go ahead and quote Ruesse, he's an old school blow hard who takes it upon himself to find criticism where there should be none. I also find it funny that before Sano it was Mauer, a player on a HOF trajectory, who was the recipient of Reusse's vitriol. Then along came Sano. Last year he just misses out on ROY and this year he's 1 or 2 in nearly every offensive category before he is injured but apparently he's lazy? Maybe Reusse and some fans just dislike good players.....