KirbyDome89

Ok either you're not reading what I'm saying or you're just not understanding it because a lot of this back and forth is about points I haven't made. The players aren't "purely self policing." They have a small bit of power to settle things on the field but ultimately the league FO has the final say and regularly hands out punishment. They are in NO WAY "purely self policing," they're not a "militia,"either and nobody is advocating for that to happen. I never stated that and Idk where you're getting that from my comments but hopefully this is clear now. Also I never said baseball FO have "gone too far." My point was that by ceding what power they have to the MLB offices the players set up a situation where you can have a Goodell/NFL debacle. Its like you mentioned above, MLB has a strong CB agreement which is why we haven't seen an NFL like scenario. I'm very glad it hasn't gotten to that point. It sounds like you are too? Finally, physical altercations are ALREADY against the rules. The Bertuzzi hit wasn't legal and all of a sudden a rule was put in place to prevent another incident. That was a dirty hit by a player with no regard for the rules. Its actually a perfect example of what I've said; just because a rule is in place doesn't mean it is always followed. Fights on the field are against the rules in almost every sport (thanks hockey) yet they continue to happen. Is there a perfect solution to preventing them? No. You can't control how the players are going to act throughout the duration of every game. If you want to compare MLB to hockey and the NBA then I'm fine with that too. We still hard fouls at the rim and fights on the court in the NBA, I would say thats very comparable to a hbp and charging the mound. I've already touched on the fights we see in hockey games too. The Utley slide rule isn't exactly a home run either; I'm sure the Blue Jays would like to have back the game that rule cost them earlier this year. tl;dr If it doesn't need fixing don't try to fix it. Adding more rules on top of those that already exist won't prevent fights on the field but they can make life more difficult for players trying to stay within the rules of the game.

He was dominant for half of last season in AAA and even more dominant in AAA to start this season. What else does he have to prove there? NOTHING. If he has to work out some control issues than it should be at the major league level. Seriously, this isn't a contending team that can't afford to let rookies learn on the job, the Twins are 10-27! He had a typical 1st start against Cleveland, decent starts against Houston and Baltimore, and ONE BAD GAME against Detroit and he's out? This isn't about "getting his confidence back," or "sharpening his skills at AAA." He has done all that already. This is about an organization that doesn't know how to handle young players. Idk if its a manager who refuses to work with these kids or its a GM who finally feels some heat and is desperate to turn things around. Either way the mismanagement of this club and its prospects is laughable at this point. Its disgusting, and I'm pissed.

I think its a very apples to apples comparison. What would be a closer comparison to MLB other than another professional sports league in America thats run by a commissioner? Goodell overstepping his bounds is totally relevant to what I'm saying. I think you're misunderstanding my posts. I never claimed that there is a group of "good guy" players policing and cleaning up the game. I said that I liked the fact that stuff is handled on the field. Thats where Goodell ties in. The NFL has a commissioner with too much power who dishes out punishment inconsistently whenever and wherever he sees fit. A lot of people are unhappy with that. That was point I was making about both sides taking things too far. Yes players can get out of control but we've also seen what happens when a league office has too much power as well. There are already rules in place to dissuade players from "brawling." They're thrown out of the game, fined, and possibly suspended. It still won't stop it from ever happening again. NO rules operate at 100% efficiency and just because they don't, it doesn't mean they're ineffective. That is the point I think you're missing. More rules and regulation isn't the answer.

Pretty sure I never advocated "brawling." Its the byproduct of an imperfect system. However, I think the system as it stands today is better than what we see in other professional sports.

The same can be said for a commissioner or committee that hands out punishment. It isn't hard for either side to overstep their bounds ( see Goodell, Rodger). The system in place where players hold each other accountable may not be perfect but I prefer it to one where the league hands out suspensions with seemingly no rhyme or reason and can't be checked.

For the most part I'm not a fan of baseball's reluctance to embrace change, but I will say I like the idea that players can still "police," the game to some extent. Yes, sometimes its childish and hard to watch but overall I don't mind seeing teams react to what they think is wrong. Also I have to point out that the Rangers aren't the only cowards in the whole ordeal. If Bautista was so upset about being hit then he should have charged the mound and gone after the pitcher who hit him. Sliding into 2B with the intent to injure a player not involved in the pitcher/hitter showdown is cowardly as well. IMO he deserved to get punched.

Agreed this season is gone and stats don't really matter. I'm all for getting the young guys some playing time too. The problem is Murphy didn't just struggle to stay afloat, he drowned, and he's doing the same thing in AAA right now. If he turns it around, sure call him up, but he was awful to start the year with the Twins and he has been awful in Rochester. If things don't change at AAA then why would anybody expect them to if he's facing big league pitching.

Have to chuckle at the desire to see Murphy promoted as part of the youth movement. He's still hitting well below .200 at AAA right now and was terrible both offensively and defensively when he was up. I understand the catching situation is a joke, but penciling in Murphy as the everyday catcher towards the end of the season seems like a reach to me.

The best argument for keeping TR is that he is better suited to be the GM than anybody directly below him? Its a terrible argument and it speaks volumes about the Twins. I think the most depressing part is that I can't even say I disagree. I honestly can't see this organization going with a true outside hire for a new GM. If the only options are TR or one of his henchmen (lets be honest those are) then I guess I would rather TR see this whole thing through. I can't believe I just uttered that last sentence....

I'm surprised by the amount of support out there for the "Twins Way." It must be a nostalgia thing where somebody forgets all the bad things that drove that person nuts and only remembers the good times. Similar to getting back together with and ex.... But seriously you have to go all the way back to 2002 to find a playoff series W and from there you have to go back even further to 1991 before you find another series win. They've won a playoff series in 2 of the last 25 years (yes I think its safe to count this year). That isn't exactly a track record of success. Everybody wants solid defense and pitching. IMO there are a lot of ways to build a team with these attributes and if this really is the end of the "Twins Way," then I'm all for it.

Just so we're all clear I'm not defending the FO or any of the questionable decisions they've made. I'm as annoyed as everybody else. I was simply pointing out that at this point in the season the Twins aren't going to say "We suck, this year is lost." Its like listening to coaches of teams down 3-0 in a series, they won't say their teams are finished, even though statistically they essentially are. If by stuck in the middle you mean they act with one foot in the water and one foot out then I completely agree. The foot out of water meaning signing veterans to long contracts and trying to win that way and the foot in being committing to giving playing time to prospects coming through the system. I'm felt for a long time that they waffle back and forth between the two scenarios. You need some of each side to build a winning team, but with the way the Twins have been built one side (the youth) needs to outweigh the other. What is frustrating is that it doesn't seem to be happening.

What they should do and what they will do are two different things. They finally had a season last year where they didn't lose 90+ games, the FO isn't going to come out on May 4th of this season and say this season is gone. Full rebuild was 2012-2014. The organization has talent, its about developing it now, not starting another rebuild.

Can't say I really disagree with much or what you're saying. Meyer has more value as a starter and if that means more time in AAA to become a reliable rotation piece I'm fine with that. It isn't the time spent in AAA that is bothersome, its the Twin's refusal to let some of these prospects fail in order to succeed at the big league level (if that makes sense). They have such a quick hook and are shuffling these guys back and forth its extremely frustrating. The rotation is a bit of a logjam right now. I'm not convinced this is the real Ricky, so who knows with that, but Santana and Hughes should be fine. I guess the real question is whether this is a lost season. The Twins aren't ready to admit that (honestly they can't at this point) Just to reach last years win total they will have to play like a 90+ win team for the remainder of the season. They've dug such a massive hole I don't see them being able to climb out of it and improve on last years win total. I hope they do turn it around and make a playoff push so we can watch meaningful games in September, it just doesn't seem likely at this point.

Fans get annoyed watching veteran/journeyman players with no upside and no future struggle at the major league level, especially when the leash is long (way too long in some cases). They also become annoyed when the prospects who are the future, are called up and then immediately sent down after a hiccup. If I'm going to watch failure at the MLB level I would rather it be the growing pains of young building blocks and not the struggles of stopgaps. IMO the root of the frustration seems to stem not from the plan to develop a championship team, but seemingly a lack thereof.

There are better position player prospects but unless some of them have a hidden pitching talent the Twins need Alex Meyer. Hell even if all of them could pitch, Meyer still has elite reliever potential so I don't understand this nonsense about dropping him from the 40 man and losing him.

I realize testosterone is a schedule III drug. NOBODY is arguing that illegally obtaining it using it is alright. I pointed out that it prescribed because people are treating it like some black market voodoo drug that nobody should possess. If you read through comments I made I was clear that using it while others aren't allowed to isn't ok. The argument is whether the drugs should be available to MLB players in order to heal/maintain their bodies during the season.

The tl;dr version is that injury prevention and care have become much more important for athletes as time has gone along. Taking drugs to prevent injury or recover more quickly from them is another step forward that people seem to resist because of a silly stigma and acronym attached to the drug names. The drug we're talking about are "illegal," only in MLB. They're prescribed and used readily outside of baseball. Players who didn't take them wouldn't be forced out of the game. There are plenty of out of shape players who stick around for a long time (Glen Perkins?) just like there are players who take immaculate care of their bodies but still end up hurt. The point is that using the drugs to recover/prevent injuries should be an option.

I'm with Mike, there are a lot of things I wouldn't want kids doing, but banning those activities definitely isn't the answer. Players aren't role models and people need to move past that idea. Keeping kids away from undesirable activities is the responsibility of parents/guardians/people in positions of power in the lives of the children. Your concern makes it clear you're a good parent so it shouldn't be an issue for your kids. Can't say I agree with the tidal wave idea. The drugs are regulated. Whether or not MLB allows their use doesn't change how they're handled by the DEA.

I'm so tired of the "Babe Ruth did it on hot dogs and beer," argument. Medicine advances, athletes take better care of their bodies, diets improve, training improves, ect...If part of the regiment is taking prescribed drugs that prevent muscle breakdown and/or injury I'm 100% for it. Players don't have to follow modern training regiments but they won't be around as long. The game has evolved and the rules regulating what "substances," are allowed need to as well. Does taking Testosterone yield an unfair advantage right now? Yes. Why? Because MLB has banned its use. Why is it banned? For no reason other than MLB has banned the use of it. The argument isn't whether he was wrong to take it while others aren't allowed, its why isn't the use of preventative medicine allowed for players going through a 162+ game season.

Tbh I'm not a huge Santana fan either. I think he's an asset on the bench and with the injury situations right now they don't have a choice other than starting him. What I'm worried about is whether Molitor is capable of putting his favorite toy back in the bin when Plouffe comes off the DL. In fairness I think the main reason I'm not that into Danny is because of last spring. He was terrible for well over a month before Molitor finally caved and gave Escobar a shot. The love affair is reminiscent of the Gardy-Punto saga. I'm terrified that continues and Santana keeps getting the nod over better players. He's a good utility guy, but not somebody I want to see consistently starting when the team is healthy.

My only nitpick is that Santana is playing in both scenarios. I wouldn't want Plouffe, Sano, Mauer, or Park sitting against right handed pitching, they're all superior hitters compared to Santana. If the OF is Rosario, Arcia, and Santana then 2 of your 4 best hitters are sitting on the bench. It could happen once if a couple of those guys really needed a rest but running out a lineup like that consistently isn't a good idea.

If only playing 1B or being the DH is flexible then yeah absolutely

I was terrified the Twins were going to let Arcia go and I was furious that Nolasco was handed the starting job out of ST so I'm only partially happy about the way their seasons have gone so far (kidding). In all seriousness it would be great to see both of them continue performing the way they have been, however, we're only 3+ weeks into a long season. Seeing either of them turn back into a pumpkin isn't unlikely. To put it into context, Nunez is still hitting over .400.....

Agreed 100%....if only there was some period of time between seasons in which teams were allowed to address needs and acquire new talent...hmm

Have you been following Sano at all the last 2 weeks? He had a slow week to start the season and since then he's been exactly who we thought/hoped he would be. If you seriously want him at AAA its going to be a tough season for you watching him mash in the big leagues....