Squirrel

No ... no one is plainly wrong. We have opinions that don't align. That's why we discuss. This isn't, and never has been, about being right. You feel as passionate about your opinion 'being right' as others do. You have made some valid points and arguments, as has chpettit. Both have given the community a lot to think about. But you don't agree. At this point I think the two of you are talking past one another and going in circles, and I think it's time to agree to disagree and walk away. This isn't a fight to the death that there is one ultimate winner.

If you reread what I wrote, I said that trading him now, this off-season, would be short-sighted ... not not trading him ever. Miranda will get his opportunities next season, either as a back up on the roster or a call up. If all goes well and he proves himself ready to take over as the starting 3rd baseman, then you trade Donaldson. But not now.

This isn’t an either/or between Donaldson or Buxton, or anyone else for that matter, in regards to salary resources. Having Donaldson on the team does not preclude that we then can’t sign Buxton and a SS and top of the rotation pitcher, imo. Further, we would still likely have to pay a LOT of his salary in a trade or get less of a player return, neither which makes it worth trading him. And trading Donaldson now immediately worsens the team for next year, both defensively and offensively. I agree Miranda has nothing left to prove in AAA, and wish he’d been given some playing time in the majors this year, but we need to see Miranda adjust to the bigs, both offensively and defensively, before we jettison that strength we have by having Donaldson on the team. Get Miranda playing time with the Twins next year and see what we have. Just because he did well in AAA does not mean an immediately successful player in the majors. How many times have we seen that … someone good in the minors not be all that in the majors? A LOT. The best is to keep Donaldson for now, and rotate Miranda in next year and if he looks competent, THEN look to trade Donaldson. Donaldson holds a lot of value to the Twins next year, imo, and trading him now would be horribly short-sighted.

Yes, yes and more yes! Thanks, sconnie

I think it's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. But man, I'm on the side of 'Get. Him. Signed!'

This is called trolling. If you have reasons for the A+, then let's hear it, otherwise ... not a good look, detracts from the topic and actually demeans what you might really think

It was ... scary-ish ... for the first half of the episodes, then not. It just didn't have anything new and became predictable. If I can get through it, it's not really that bad in terms of scare.

I find it interesting that so many people want to rid ourselves of players that are actually producing. And, how great the exceptions are for prospects to immediately field openings and produce at MLB levels because they had a great year in the minors. The players to move are Astudillo and Arraez. Arraez through trade and Astudillo by removing him from the 40-man. If he doesn't get picked up, then we can assign him to AAA. Miranda comes up to spell Donaldson at third, maybe play some outfield. It's a huuuuge assumption that Miranda will just instantly become this MLB fixture. All prospects need some time. If he looks like he can take over, then you move Donaldson (or try to) mid season or next off season, but now is not the time. I mean ... we actually want to improve the team, and getting rid of Donaldson to replace him with Miranda does not do that

You're getting worse at this ...

Man, I'm disappointed in you for going that that old relic ...

Eh, you were on the right road. Some never get there no matter what Stu writes ?

All of RandBalls Stu's articles are satire, so yes, tongue in cheek

Huh ... I didn't get that far into my thinking, but that is a very pragmatic way of doing it.

I'd say that's definitely true for the backups on the 26-man ... but I'm not so sure that one or two of them could be a good option in AAA for depth? There are a lot of 'it depends' in all of this because, well ... it depends! lol. All I know is that you have to cautious about who you keep with as much as who you drop. Fun and frustrating puzzle to mull over.

Right. Which is why I went from 'Oh, this is easy' to ... okay, really, really NOT. Heh. My hunch is a few will be released immediately at the end of the season because we have several players on the 60-day IL that room will need to be made for them. And then when rule 5 comes around, this becomes yet another discussion. I was trying to be 'efficient' by sorting it into parts, but maybe we should have put EVERYTHING in here at once? That said ... haven't seen you around lately! Glad to have you back and hope you are well!

What about Refsnyder? Prospect additions will be yet another discussion and component of all of this. Part of my thinking was ... you can't just jettison players. it's more complicated than that. You really have to decide who to keep and who is expendable. And, as I said (I think I said), we won't see removals come all at once and/or immediately. They will remove people when they absolutely have to. Garlick being on the 60-day IL ... that decision will come at the end of the season. They will have to either make room for him or let him go. I could see with both Garlick and Refsnyder being offered minor league deals. In the end ... this exercise show me just how little I know and just how much I should never be in charge of such decisions

I don't even know ... do teams keep to a certain split?

Lewis isn't on the 40-man yet, but he will need to be added.

Yeah ... it's really hard to know where the thinking is. Garlick and Rooker both have options, so I'd say Refsnyder is the odd man out of those three. I'm not sure who provides the most value, maybe none of them, but I can't see them keeping all of them. Simmons is an obvious gone, but ... and I hope not ... but they could re-sign him? But if they do, (but oh man, I hope they don't) likely won't happen immediately, so they can use his roster spot up front and make room again for him later. They will have to find roster spots for Kirilloff and Garlick (if they keep him) at the end of the season. That is accomplished with Maggi and Simmons gone. I think they keep people on until they have to remove them. Pitchers will be an interesting discussion. I split this up between position players and pitchers because I just thought it would be too long a list to go through at once, but maybe I should add them in and make this one discussion? And then you start thinking about the rule 5 adds ... so many related parts.

We’ve had several threads/articles lately about next season … what you think the 2022 lineup will be, who do we want to sign, what are our positions of most need, will certain players have a place on the team next year. All very good discussions. And not too far in the future, we’ll be having discussions on which prospects should be added to the roster. But before we get to all of those, there are larger looming discussions and decisions regarding the 40-man roster … who stays, who goes. When I thought about doing this thread, I ran into a lot of difficulty exactly how to do this. It seemed easy enough initially … who should the Twins jettison? Well, after thinking about it, a lot, hemming and hawing, trying to learn more about the status of individual players (something I am not well-versed in, I fully admit), and after discussing with others what I wanted to discuss, (thank you @ashbury, @Otto von Ballpark and @Brock Beauchamp), I realized the question might not be ‘who do we jettison’, but rather’ Who should we keep?’ I found the question to be, well, daunting. It’s really a big puzzle when it comes down to it. Time is a precious commodity. You want to maximize the time you have of your best prospects/players, so you don’t want to add them before they are ready, so you can capitalize on their best years; and don’t want to jettison a struggling player too soon, only to see them finally figure it out elsewhere. We’ve been down that road, too. Once a player is added, removing them certainly means losing them, if they have any kind of potential, great or small. You want to make sure you’ve really done your due diligence to determine the value you have. So, this 40-man thing is one to be cautious with. In a recent conversation I had with Brock, he said this: “I think of it this way: about 35 spots of the 40-man are locked down with good prospects or MLB veterans. An org might play fast and loose with those final 3-4 spots but they spend A LOT of effort avoiding tampering with that 35 unless they have confidence in what they’re doing.” So … part one of this discussion … position players on the Twins’ 40-man roster … who should the Twins keep? We won’t see these decisions come to fruition all at once. It will happen gradually. I’m sure the Twins have made some decisions already, but others will ‘hang out’ until which time the Twins either feel they have a better replacement, decide to make trades, need the space for prospect additions, or feel they’ve just reached the ‘end of the road’ with them. So … of the listed players, who would you keep? Discuss any reasoning below. STATUS PLAYER Options FA FA if outrighted? 28-man Luis Arraez 2 in 2026 (arb eligible 2023) YES 28-man Byron Buxton n/a FA in 2023 YES 28-man Jorge Polanco 0 signed through 2023, club options for 2024 and 2025 YES 28-man Josh Donaldson n/a signed through 2023, club option for 2024 YES 28-man Max Kepler n/a signed through 2023, club options for 2024 YES 28-man Mitch Garver 2 FA in 2024 YES 28-man Miguel Sanó n/a signed through 2022, club option for 2023 YES 28-man Nick Gordon 0 YES 28-man Andrelton Simmons n/a At end of season 28-man Ryan Jeffers 2 28-man Willians Astudillo 1 YES 28-man Jake Cave 1 FA in 2025, arb eligible 2022 YES 28-man Brent Rooker 2 60IL Kyle Garlick 1 YES 60IL Alex Kirilloff 2 10IL Rob Refsnyder 0 YES 40-man Ben Rortvedt 2 40-man Drew Maggi 3 YES 40-man Trevor Larnach 2 40-man Gilberto Celestino 1 YES Many thanks to Otto who did this chart for me, and I filled in some of the contract info, and to Brock and Ash for bearing with my endless questions.

What happened before the game started was the highlight. The game itself? Well ... can't win them all.

@Brock Beauchamp just got this ad ... was at the bottom of a forum thread page ... a sound ad ... and no way to click it off ... grrr ... went away when I clicked 'go to topic listing'. Photo doesn't show it but was for an Amazon visa card, I think.