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Thoughts: I think some have strayed from the spirit of this exercise. "This is not just about production or accolades. It's about connection, moments, and the players who came to define generations of Twins baseball." A starting pitcher should be included because we had one batting for a dozen years. Several franchises had one for over a century. In a lineup without a DH, I would drop Buxton, move Puckett to CF, and put Oliva in RF. My personal favorite lineup: C Mauer 1B Hrbek 2B Carew 3B Killebrew SS Smalley LF Allison CF Buxton RF Puckett DH Oliva P Kaat MGR Kelly Honorable mentions to Torii Hunter, Carlos Correa, Justin Morneau, Greg Gagne, Willians Astudillo, Bombo Rivera, Larry Hisle, Dan Gladden, Jose Morales, Paul Molitor, and a long list of pitchers. While I did watch the '65 World Series at home and in school, '67 was the season I really fell in love with the team. And I had to rely almost exclusively on written articles and box scores for Twins info during most of the first decade of this century.

I agree with you on Arraez, Mark, but I only partially agree with the wise man. Grounding into a double play is worse than a strikeout. On that point, Arraez GIDP 18 times in each of the last two seasons, the 7th most times in the NL in '24, and 9th most in '23. (Note that Arraez totaled six GIDPs with MN in '22. A H&R issue?) While that is a negative, his overall ability to put the ball in play AND having his league's highest batting average in the last three seasons is a much bigger positive. His OBP last year was his worst, but it ranked 9th in MLB in '23. Arraez is due $14 million in his final season of arbitration, Cease at 13.75M. Arraez's slash at home last season was .268/.308/.328, (2 for 11 vs Twins at Petco) compared to .359/.385/.456 on the road. I'd expect a rebound season if we could get him back at Target Field.

I get that you were responding to bean's comment below. That said, your examples are guys who made a direct jump to the Majors because they were signed or drafted as potential future stars. And at least in some cases, a direct jump was a factor in getting the player signed. And with pitchers, rushed promation quite often resulted in regression or arm surgery, if not a bust. I wish I could find a list on pitchers that made the jump from High A to the majors. My worry about Prielipp would be his TJ history and only 30 innings pitched over two seasons. Crochet and Leake are the only two pitchers this century on the list. Leake did well. Crochet pitched six scoreless innings in September of '20 and followed it up with a solid ´21. But he had TJ surgery and missed the ´22 season and due to stints on the DL, just 12 innings in ´23. He was an All-Star this past season, 32 starts, 146 innings. Best guess is that he will succeed with longer starts next season, but TJ is an issue. Xavier Nady was the only position player to make the list. He registered one at batthen spent the next two seasons in the minors. Two TJ surgeries in Nady´s history. Ariel Prieto "Prieto never managed to maintain any sustained success during his Oakland tenure because of injuries and ineffectiveness, thus becoming arguably the A’s biggest Draft regret." Darren Dreifort "The following spring, Dreifort made the Dodgers as a reliever at 21 years old, though he did not perform well with a 6.21 ERA over 27 games (29 innings). Injuries cost him all of the ’95 season and would plague the hard-throwing righty throughout his career." Jim Abbott - ROY and no major injuries Mike Morgan - Three starts and to the minors. "Turns out, rushing Morgan to the Majors didn’t work well. After a disappointing 1980 season spent entirely at Triple-A, the A’s shipped him to the Yankees, beginning a chain of trades and signings that turned Morgan into one of baseball’s most famous journeymen." Tim Conroy - "The A’s advanced Conroy and Morgan straight to the Majors partly because after winning three straight titles from 1972-74, the team was on a downturn in the late ’70s and Finley wanted to drum up interest in short order. It backfired in Conroy’s case, too, as the Pennsylvania prepster made two shaky starts in June 1978 but then didn’t make it back to Oakland again until ’82." Brian Milner, C - "Despite going 4-for-9 in two games that June, Milner was sent down to the Rookie League level for the remainder of ’78. Alas, he never returned to The Show -- or even made it above Double-A again -- because of injuries and a lack of production." Denny Walling, INF/OF - "He played in just six games that September (one start) and collected his first big-league knock...Walling spent almost all of '76 at Double-A Chattanooga before Oakland called him up for only three games at the very end of the season." 43 MLB PAs in his first three seasons. Dick Ruthven - Very solid career. He missed all but the final two months of his third season but made the All-Star team the following year. David Clyde - "The rest of Clyde’s career became a cautionary tale of pushing a young sensation too fast. Rather than let Clyde develop in the Minors in ’74, the Rangers once again stuck with him, and after a brief hot start, he failed to earn a single win after mid-May. He hurt his shoulder in ’75 and spent the year in Double-A, other than one September start with the Rangers. Clyde’s following season was wrecked by shoulder surgery, and he continued to battle shoulder problems through the end of his career in 1981 -- at age 26." Eddie Bane - "Bane was solid in three of his first four starts that summer, before he transitioned to a relief role and struggled the rest of the way. He then spent all of ’74 at Triple-A before making it back to Minnesota at the tail end of the ensuing season. Arm trouble ultimately hampered Bane, who retired at 28 in ’80 after spending his final years in the Minors and finished his MLB career with only seven wins in 44 career games." I witnessed his first start. July 4th vs KC. The Twins were just a game out of first place. Attendence 45,890. 7 innings, 3 hits, 1 run. Twins scored three in the 8th. Ray Corbin blew the save, giving up four runs in the ninth. Pete Broberg - 125 and 176 innings, respectively, in his first two seasons. A negative career WAR. "While Broberg did throw a career-high 220 1/3 innings in his first year in Milwaukee, his stuff and strikeout rate (4.1 K/9) declined, and his last big league action came in ’78 at 28 years old. He finished with a 41-71 mark and a 4.56 ERA over 963 frames." Burt Hooton- An outstanding career but not without early yips. ""The Cubs pushed the right-hander to The Show at 21, inside of two weeks after he was drafted June 8. After a shaky debut, Hooton was sent to Triple-A, where he excelled and earned a late-season callup..." Rob Ellis, 3B/OF - "Hegot a hit in his first at-bat and went 9-for-29 (.310) in his first 10 games with Milwaukee, but it quickly went south. Ellis ended his initial taste of the Majors with a .198/.278/.216 line in 36 games (129 plate appearances). Turns out, the 36 games he played that first year would wind up being more than half of his career total (64) in MLB, as Ellis didn’t make it back to the Brewers until a 22-game stint in ’74 and another six games in ’75. While his baseball career continued with a number of seasons in Triple-A and finished in ’82 with a turn in the Mexican League, Ellis never again reached The Show, with his final game at the highest level coming at the age of 24." Steve Dunning - "As a 21-year-old, he won his first start with five innings of two-run ball. Dunning continued to pitch fairly well through his first eight starts, with a 4.25 ERA in 48 2/3 innings, but his performance dipped down the stretch (5.72 ERA in his final 11 outings).... His last big league game came in ’77 at age 28, and he retired with a 23-41 record and a 4.56 ERA in barely more than 600 career big league innings." Mike Adamson - "Adamson was still 19 years old when he shot straight to The Show, with his first appearance coming in a two-inning relief stint. After a pair of starts in his next two outings that July, Adamson went to Triple-A, where he notched a 1.95 ERA in 60 innings (nine starts). He began ’68 at Triple-A before earning a midseason callup, a two-start cameo that did not go well. While Adamson began the next year with the O’s, he only managed six relief appearances before going back down to Rochester for the rest of the year. Those outings in ’69 would turn out to be Adamson’s last time in the big leagues, and his MLB career was over by age 21 with a 7.46 ERA in 11 games -- and zero wins." On 10/26/2024 at 3:44 PM, bean5302 said: "I don't know why the writers of this site create fringe narratives, and then push those narratives until they become accepted as fact or likely to happen scenarios. Guys don't go from A+ to MLB directly."

I would have appreciated this article had the headline been true, and/or had the Baseball-Reference WAR ranking method been clearly stated in the first part of the text. The Baseball-Reference WAR result is not the be-all and end-all determiner of overall value, especially with Fan Graphs having different opinions.

Judging trades has always been a fun part of being a fan of the game. You get to both pick a winner and a loser and argue the fine details. If you judge winning and losing a trade based on whether in hindsight the teams would make the deal again if given the opportunity, the Twins won and the Mariners lost.

On July 2, in 44 innings pitched, Richards had an ERA of 2.44, with a WHIP of 0.818. In seven appearances betweenJuly 4 and July 25, he recorded 6 IP, 15 H, 6 BB, 7 K, 3 HR, 15 ER, 3.500 WHIP, and a 22.5 ERA. That includes 1/3 of an inning in each of his 6th and 7th appearances, giving up 7 earned runs. He followed that with his final appearance as a Blue Jay. He pitched two scoreless innings last night with one K and two BBs. I like the idea of taking a flier on Richards. The pre-July 6 pitcher was quite effective. The decline began with his third appearance in four days and got worse with a fourth appearance in six days. The combo of insufficient rest between outings and facing too many batters when he didn't have good stuff was too much. Did they burn his arm out or was this a bump in the road that can be fixed with proper management? Hopefully the latter. If so, he can be very effective as a specialist vs LHBs, a mirror image of prime Marc Rzepczynski.

I agree. And the worst teams are also more likely to have a position available that would allow a rookie to break in as a full-season regular on opening day.. .

Bryan Acuña is an interesting prospect. Signed fpr $650,000, he posted a line of .310/.409/.393/.803 in the Dominican League last year as a 16 year old shortstop. Acuña's baseball bloodline runs deeper than his brothers. His father played eights seasons in the minors. Other relatives: Cousin of Vicente Campos, Alcides Escobar, Edwin Escobar, Kelvim Escobar; Nephew of Jose Escobar. MLB has him rated #18 on the Twins 2023 prospect list. His strong baseball background should boost his chances of being a steady, productive player over the long haul. And if all the stars align right...

Carew was in his age 30 season in '76 when he became a full time first baseman. He had his amazing "Time cover" MVP season the following year. His 9,7 WAR more than doubled what Morneau put up in his best All-Star season. Knoblauch posted an 8.7 WAR in '96, 3rd best in the league. WAR isn't the be-all-end-all stat, but a 9.7 or 8.7 best compared to a 4.7 best says it all. For Twins careers, I agree with you on Morneau and Carew, but this article is based on best single All-Star seasons.

It isn't just Montas. terrydactyls included either Soderstrom or Longeliers in the deal. Both catchers are in MLB's the top 100 list, 56th and 59th, respectively. Balazovic isn't on the list. Fangraphs lists them 36th and 70th overall. Balazovic is ranked 90th. So it's certainly debatable that either of the catchers would more than make up for the loss of Balazovic. From MLB: ...Soderstrom entered pro ball without a ton of catching experience and that part of his game is still behind the bat, leading some to wonder if it would be better to move him to first, a position he saw some time at in 2021, to let his bat advance more quickly. There’s still work to be done, but the A’s are pleased with the progress he made in terms of blocking and receiving, as well as with using his above-average arm strength. ...the A’s wanted Langeliers to be one of the headliners in the deal that sent Matt Olson to Atlanta... ...Even if he doesn’t hit, Langeliers’ defense will make him a big leaguer. He has one of the best arms of any Minor Leaguer at any position and he threw out 42 percent of potential basestealers a year ago. He’s a strong leader and works very well with pitchers and after his experience on the postseason taxi squad, he’s close to being ready for a job as a big league regular.

I don't see the teams manipulating the system as some sort of moral disgrace. It's business. Both sides use loopholes at the drop of the hat if they deem it best for themselves. Both sides work out a system and agree to the conditions of the contract. Player contracts are a microcosm of the player-owner contract. If an individual player feels jilted by a loophole in the league contract, his beef should be with the player's association and the team he plays for. The player's association can negotiate the question when the next contract comes up. If the player believes his team did him wrong, he can take his services elsewhere when he becomes a free agent. As to terms of location and being to to an owner and a location for a decade, it's also part of being in a league system. It isn't a normal job. Buxton is as least as much an MLB player as he is a Twin. MLB rules are based on collective bargaining and play a large part in determining how much a player makes during his career. Part of being a successful league is having a degree of parity. In the long run, the continued success of the league makes both sides richer. To me, these questions are the business of the players and the owners. Both sides are equal. There are no real victims of immoral manipulation. It only becomes personal when and if it comes to a strikes or a lockout.

The beauty of baseball is it's many dimensions. There will always be many open questions.That leads to discussions and debates. It's a healthy thing on a healthy board. Nonsense comments and snarky remarks aren't healthy. TD doesn't often suffer that problem. I appreciate this debate/discussion. Got me thinking and I learned some things. Out of respect for your request in this specific discussion, I pass on commenting.

No, this isn't about 2021, though that's a huge part of it. From Nick's intro: "The idea is to assess players' importance to the future of the Minnesota Twins."

Organizations may also draft players from Double-A or lower to play for their Triple-A affiliates (for $12,000) and may draft players from Class A teams ..

221 So many variables. Safe to say it was a win for Houston, but it could also easily turn out to be at least a wash for the Twins. While Pressly pitched well in his final month in Minnesota, two earned runs in 13 innings, dropping his ERA from 4.14 to 3.40, he was lights out in Houston. After giving up an earned run in his first one inning appearance, he gave up a single run over the following 22.3 innings, with 33 k's and just 3 walks. His 2018 WHIP in Minnesota was 1.364, in Houston, 0.600. Pressly changed his approach with the Astros. By far the biggest factor in Pressly’s success was in locating his pitches, using his curveball as an out pitch. He also scrapped his two-seam fastball after the trade. His K/W ratio was 3.63 in Minnesota, 10.67 in Houston! He followed up in 2019 with a 6.00 ratio last season. In short, Pressly raised his game to a level that he wouldn't have seen had he not been traded. It's been said that his transformation with the Astros led to the Twins hiring of Wes Johnson. I'd argue that Johnson´s hiring alone makes the Pressly trade a win for the Twins.

"His suspension was 60 games with 39 games remaining, not 37% of a season with 24% remaining." And the 60 game suspension was also at least tangentially based on a 162 game season. While a strict 39 games remaining stance seems more likely, I´m with Doc´s point that it´s an interesting argument.

This question highlights the beauty of baseball. The ever-evolving chess game. New rules force changes on one side that are countered by the other.I don't particularly see this strategy becoming "a thing" for constructing line-ups this season, but it certainly seems to have to legs as an option to consider in some scenarios. The argument is valid. An idea that hasn't been discussed much. Nate offers as a hypothetical and leaves it as an open question. First blush reasons why this will be mainly a secondary factor in setting lineups; I think the new rule will effect the 26-man roster as much or more than the starting lineups. There will be more relief pitchers rostered this season that are more evenly effective to batters on both sides of the plate. On offense, managers more place more emphasis on filling a last roster spot with a stronger pinch-hitter over a better defensive fielder. In any case, aside from and sometimes including walk-off win situations, managers will still understand the potential danger of giving out intentional walks. In short, IMO, this is an interesting counter for managers to consider when the stars align.

I think the point of this article got hijacked from the jump in the comments section. As I read it, there is no suggestion the Arraez should change his approach at the plate. Matthew laid out a cogent argument; basically a scenario where Arraez's current hitting style and ability to hit the sweet spot will produce more power in the future as his body matures. Pedroia hit eights home runs over his first full season in his age 23 season. Arraez hit four HRs at age 22 with 215 fewer plate appearances. Would it shock anyone to see him hit eight this coming season or 12 to 18 down the line while using the same general plate approach? IMO, Arraez is more than a contact hitter. Anyway, thank you Matt for laying the argument out so well. It hit home because I had a similar discussion with a friend Wednesday night.

Venezuelans speak Spanish. Portuguese is for Brazilian readers. Here is the Spanish translation: "¡Muchas gracias y bienvenidos a TD! También me apasionaba Johan Santana o la primera vez que lo vi. Es mi lanzador favorito en la historia de los Twins."

Yup. While between '69 and '70 Ryan pitched seven complete games, he also finished eight games out of the pen, recording two saves and a blown save. He had another save in the World Series.

While I at least think that I understand and sympathize with both ends of the basic argument, I'm leaning towards patience. Saying that the window is open now for a World Series run on one hand while on the other hand bemoaning the fact that the existing team can't win a playoff game much less a series seems problematic. If somehow a Scherzer had fallen in our lap last season, would we have been the favorite to win it all? How many pieces will it take to seriously compete on paper with powerhouses in Houston and NY? IMO, the Twins could theoretically drain the farm for prime ready talent and then only be among the top contenders. As someone who suffered through long, lean seasons from '71 through '83, and again from '93 through '00, I greatly appreciate the nine-year run from '01 through '10 with six division titles and only one series win. I missed a lot of details and excitement during that time trying to adjust to life in South America. Mostly just box scores back then. Everyone has their own degree of hopes and expectations for their sports teams. My hopes are always high with less expectations for championships. KC won a WS, but I don't envy them, especially over the last 20 years. I'll take the eight post-season appearances and brighter future. KC was also working in a different window. The level of competition among the top teams was different in 2015. They had to face McHugh, Price, Estrada, and Harvey twice each. 2019 featured Cole, Verlander, Greinke, Strasburg, and Scherzer on two teams. Put the '19 or '20 Twins in the '15 window and I'd be all on board in giving up top prospects or breaking the bank for an ace level pitcher. Sorry for rambling on in such a scattered way. I see it as a very complicated argument with no easy answers either way. This is how I view it and it works for me.

What this team needs is a good five WAR Seager. Maybe Corey, but the Kyle train left the station three seasons ago.

Regarding Berra, 1961 was the only season he played more games at other positions than he did behind the plate. He was in his age 36 season. Regarding concussions, I googled Garver for concussions, multiple and repeated. The only report of repeated concussions I could find was a link back to this article. Anyway, while I think it would be wise to give him occasional starts at first, a position change now would be a waste of talent.

LOL! That's my all-time favorite.