chpettit19

Last year's World Series featured the 5th seeded Rangers beating the 6th seeded Diamondbacks. Those "mediocre" teams, and their fans, sure enjoyed squeaking in despite not being deserving playoff teams. You wouldn't watch the Mets or Twins if they were in the World Series because they weren't top seeds and the game is worse for it?

What 4 run lead did the Twins have the night before? They won the game 4-1 after having been tied 1-1 in the 4th. Maybe you wouldn't be so upset if you were going off accurate data. He actually used Henriquez in a 1 run game the night before when they were up 2-1 in the 7th. They scored 2 more in the 8th to take a 3 run lead and he went to his big guns to close out a 3 run lead. May want to get your details straight before ranting. And I'm totally fine if they fire Rocco. I'd fire the whole regime at this point. But at least complain about accurate stuff.

They're 4-7. Last year they were 12-8. Same manager. Is he doing something different this year that's causing this "pathetic" record in extra inning games? Forgot how to manage so well that they had a .600 winning percentage in extra innings last year but have a .364 percentage this year? Sure hope he just goes back to his brilliant managing from last year for the last 10 games.

There were actually a number of us saying all offseason that the central wasn't a cake walk this year and that everyone not named Chicago White Sox had a shot at putting a lot of pressure on the Twins. Cleveland, KC, and Detroit had all broken in young players in 2023 and had more on the way. Detroit and KC actually added talent in the offseason, unlike Cleveland and Minnesota. This collapse is beyond what anyone saw, but there were a lot of us saying that there were 3 other teams on the rise in the central and it shouldn't just be a foregone conclusion that the Twins were walking away with an easy division win.

It's entirely possible. But can you name any other legitimate prospect they've ever done that with? I sure can't. 13 games being enough for a 2 level jump isn't something I can remember them doing with any guy they likely considered a legitimate prospect ever. If they really view him as a legit prospect and are making all their decisions very deliberately based on his performance why didn't they give him any MLB shot while they watched their offense tank and bring their playoff hopes to the brink? I'm not saying there's no chance it was deliberate because they thought that was the level he deserved to be at, but I can't come up with a single comp to his situation ever. But they have taken guys his age they likely don't view as legitimate prospects and jumped them up and down as needed, even if the guy is performing well at the higher levels.

I think new environment and just further testing his ability to sustain the performance is upside in sending him. He wouldn't be at the top of my list (Jenkins and Emma are the top 2 by a mile for me) but he'd certainly be on the list. Gaining more data on Eeles would be beneficial to offseason team building, I think. They won't add him to the 40-man at all, but how much faith they put in him could determine other moves. If there's a trade for a pitcher available that would require trading an offensive piece off your 40-man do you trust Eeles to be a real option at some point in 2025? Having more data on him would be helpful. If you're not considering him at all as an option in 2025 then there's really no upside to sending him. But any different challenge you can present to a guy who came out of nowhere and you may consider for an MLB spot at some point the next season would be helpful in roster management decisions, I think.

If it takes him 2 years to get called up from AAA it's because he's not a major leaguer. He's 26 next year. If he doesn't get a shot next year he's likely never getting a shot. I'd guess they aren't calling him up because they don't trust he's a major leaguer. I don't think he originally got sent to AAA because they thought he was a real prospect. I think they did it because they saw him as system filler who was older so were just going to be moving him around as needed. But then he hit. And kept hitting. And hasn't stopped hitting. So now they're going to give him a shot next year to see if he can repeat his performance. If he does, he'll get a shot. If he doesn't, he gets put in the system depth bucket and they likely don't look at him again unless injuries absolutely ravage their entire team and top of their system. They have a few guys I'd like to see get AFL invites so I'm interested to see who gets sent. Eeles certainly amongst the options.

If they were concerned about that, and it was suspension worthy to use it that way, why don't they have rules against doing it? My understanding is that there really aren't any rules to it. It can be used to stash players in case of injuries, which you can easily explain stashing a 30+ year old veteran player for that. And if you're going to development list a young guy you need to replace them on the active roster with somebody. If you're only using it for young, up and coming prospects and never put veterans on it you'd have to go find a new veteran to sign each time you used it to replace that young guy on the roster. Then cut that veteran when you bring the young guy back. Then sign another vet for the next young guy you put on the development list. It's just a way to allow teams to carry more than their 28 active minor league roster spots and move guys around as needed to cover for promotions, injuries, inning limitations, etc.

Yeah, I believe they started it as part of their strategy to "bring back starting pitching." Making teams keep demoted pitchers down for at least 15 days and limiting the number of times they can be optioned in a season means you have to stick closer to the 13 pitcher maximum. Teams still use to to bounce out long relievers after they throw 3 or 4 innings in an emergency, but it's helping some.

FYI, you can only option a guy 5 times in a season now. After that you have to put them on waivers. It's likely why Varland is still on the team right now. He's out of options this year.

Feels like the Twins getting ready to rely on a lot of young arms next year. Get as many guys as possible a little taste of AAA knowing they're not adding any major league talent to the rotation and they're going to have to find arms throughout the year next year. Get Raya and Lewis one last start at the highest level in hopes that they can last throughout next year as possible MLB arms.

Why? Isn't this literally the point of the development list?

You wouldn't get anything useful back, but I don't think you'd have to pay to move Paddack. A 1 WAR pitcher for 7.5 isn't a horrible asset for teams not looking to cut payroll. If the Twins want to move that 7.5 I'm sure they could find somebody who'd throw them a Jay Harry equivalent.

Neither Severino nor Miranda were moved around the infield with flexibility as the priority. They were moved down the defensive spectrum because they couldn't field the other positions. That's minor leagues 101.

I agree that that's the logical conclusion to draw from them being on the roster over other players. The discussion on this thread is whether or not we agree with the Twins based on the information we have. I just don't know how much closer they need to get to the end of the season and playoffs for those odds to "go dramatically higher." They have 12 games left, as you note. That's not very many. And they have a 1.5 game (really 2 since they have the tie breaker) lead in the wild card race. They're completely falling apart while 2 other teams are coming up very quickly on them. I don't think preferring 7 games of Buxton/Correa to 12 games of Keirsey/Castillo is crazy, but there's real risk in it. What if you only get 5 games from Buxton or Correa? They couldn't play the day after playing 4 innings with their team on the brink of being swept by a sub-.500 team before heading off to play the division leading team that's owned them all season. How much more desperate do they have to be before they just put them out there and see what happens? Not until Detroit passes them? Not until the last 6 games of the season when multiple teams could've passed them? Your last sentence is my concern. If they're healthy enough to play, now is the time that the odds need to be dramatically higher. You're going to sit them to prevent them not being able to play? So you're not playing them because you might end up having to not play them? It's now. This is the time the team needs them. If they're healthy enough to play today they need to play today. If they come in any day and aren't capable of playing they get 1 more day. If they come in the next day and still can't play it's time to just admit they're hurt and they can't play. Healthy players don't need to sit proactively because they might have a flare up. Especially when the team is in the midst of a massive collapse and there's only 12 games left. Either they're healthy or they aren't. If they're healthy put them on the field and cross your fingers they don't get hurt. The time for scheduled off days and preventative rest to help guys stay healthy is gone. It's time to put your best 9 on the field and try to beat their 9. There's nothing left to save them for.

Do the recall rules apply there? I'm not sure if that's a regular season only rule or not. Wouldn't be surprised if that rule ends after game 162 and it moves over to the playoff roster rules at that point with no concern for if or when a player had been optioned. But I'm not real clear on the intricacies of that rule.

In general, yes, they should use options on talented guys instead of DFAing the talented guy, but my point was that choosing Alcala as the guy to go away for Irvin shouldn't have been about him having options and other guys not. He shouldn't have been demoted simply because he has options. He should only have been the one sent packing if he was the one deemed to provide the least amount of help on the field for the next 12 games.

Calling it his 3rd HR of the year is missing quite a bit of context. He hit 20 this year in 83 AAA games. He slugged .548 in AAA. For reference, Matt Wallner's best AAA slugging percentage was .544 this season. He slugged .524 there last year. Kyle Manzardo isn't the typical slap hitting Guardian player. He's caught up to a lot of 97 MPH fastballs in his life. It was a good piece of hitting, but by no means some crazy feet that came out of nowhere. He's a legitimate power hitter.

I mean, there's plenty of question marks in the pen, and pitching staff as a whole, but are they really expecting a guy who hasn't thrown a single MLB pitch this season to come back and be a key part to anything? It's throw things at the wall and see what sticks time, but if these are the hopeful saviors of the Twins season and postseason I'm not loving their chances.

I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really hope they aren't considering options with 12 games left to play and their playoff lives hanging in the balance. If you lose Blewett, Tonking, or Thielbar on waivers (they likely wouldn't) and a guy goes down with 6 games left, so be it. If they knowingly sacrificed talent because that talent has options and the lack of talent guys don't they really are as incompetent as some say. I hope this decision was made completely on who they think gives them the best chance to win as many games as possible for the next 2 weeks and nothing else.

I'd hope they aren't worried about options for Blewett, Tonkin, or Thielbar if they aren't one of their 14 best pitchers. They have 12 games left. Optioning vs DFAing shouldn't be a consideration anymore. It's time to get your 28 best players on the roster and stop this collapse. I assume this means they thought the current arms give them their best chance to win during the next 2 weeks. I wouldn't agree, but I have to think that's their thought process. Or they already have a plan for another arm to get hurt after throwing 3 or 4 innings in the next week and bringing Alcala back. Even if that's frowned upon by the rules and would be an incredibly bold move to make.

Who had Alcala as the guy having his season ended to bring in Mr Irvin? Being pretty widely reported he's the one being optioned. Didn't see that coming.

I'm not mincing words. You said you'd take 50% Buxton over a 4A player. I'm trying to figure out what 50% Buxton is. And now I'm going to ask if you think they're 85-95% right now. That matters in this conversation. If they're only 50% it's very different than them being 95%. If they're 95% and they are sitting at all that's embarrassing. If they're 85% and sitting at all the Twins really do baby their guys as much as some people say. It's the end of September. They're playing their 150th game of the season. Nobody is 100%. That's a huge part of this conversation. How healthy are they? If they're 85% they should've played yesterday, and they should play the next 12 games without a question. Of course 85% Buxton is better than a 4A player. The question is if he's 85%, 75%, 65%, 50% and where the line is that makes sense to play him. And you've already lost that bet. They sat yesterday when the need was there. After having played a whopping 4 innings the night before.

Starting Lee over Castro in a playoff game would be quite the decision. I'd be incredibly surprised if that's your roster and they started Lee with Castro on the bench. I'd bet they also carry 1 more position player. Especially in the wild card round. If they need 13 arms to get through a 3 game series they're not coming out on the winning end of that series. The question would be Julien or Keirsey for the last spot. Keirsey as the defensive replacement and stolen base threat or Julien who wouldn't have many opportunities to get on the field. This all assumes Kepler is healthy by then.

The fascinating thing will be who they send down tomorrow. Blewett? Henriquez? Zebby? Those are the 3 I see as the most likely. Tonkin and Varland being the next 2 in line. My guess would be Zebby's season is over. That'd mean Irvin is stepping directly into the rotation, though. So maybe Blewett or Henriquez and they look to use bulk pitching as much as they can for all the non-Lopez or Ober starts? Interesting decision incoming.