chpettit19

I'm not sure what this is supposed to establish. Jenkins isn't the only 21 or younger player? How many 21 or younger players are in the majors? 21 is still "super-young" for the majors. And it's quite the trick to say "older than Jenkins" and then list 3 guys just months older than him. 2 months is really some meaningful data point for proving he isn't young? How many of the guys drafted before him have been injured as often as him? 3 of those guys were college superstars multiple years older than him. What do they have to do with whether or not Jenkins is still young for the majors?

Again, because Bell will be older and Larnach will be more expensive. And there will be other signings and trades and roster moves. That doesn't mean they won't bring them back, but it's reasons why that question has nothing to do with the situation right now. These 2 things are not tied together. And why shouldn't they if they do? You know I wanted them to complete the rebuild and go young this year. But they didn't. And Bell and Larnach have performed. Jenkins is not guaranteed to be a success. Ever. And injuries will happen next year. Just like they happen every year. Way too much emphasis on the opening day roster or him being called up now. Not calling him up now when there's no everyday job available isn't some sign that they'll never call him up or they're afraid of rookies or whatever claim people want to attach to it. They just called Culpepper up for goodness sake. But that was to replace Kreidler. A guy who is clearly not a guy who should be playing more than sparingly in a utility defensive specialist role. It's not Buxton, Keaschall, Larnach, or Bell. 4 guys who've very clearly established that they are every day, or strong side platoon, players. No team moves aside legitimate vets for rookies in a playoff race. And the discussion about bringing them back next year is so much bigger than this conversation about calling him up now.

And I think that "big difference" is what matters. You named an obvious star in Ramirez, who's actually having a very disappointing year while missing time with injuries, a rookie 2B who's been an average hitter, and a SS who's been less below average than usual this year, but still below average. So, no, I don't think the Guardians are doing what I asked about. They aren't benching DeLauter to play Genao. They aren't benching Kwan after he finally got going this year. They aren't moving guys from the IF to the OF so Genao can play IF. Ramirez is a close comp to Buxton in terms of the injury and getting a "half day off" by DHing, but Buxton has significantly outperformed Ramirez this year when they've played. Those other guys you mentioned aren't the level of hitters Keaschall, Larnach, and Bell are.

We've been through this before, I'm not putting Keaschall at 2B for another game in his life. And I'm not benching Larnach twice a week for Jenkins. The guys in the clubhouse definitely know who's got them there and that absolutely has a very real chance of disrupting the team. Jenkins better perform or you're going to have some very cranky vets. But I ask again, can you name another team that has called up a Jenkins type prospect and moved a guy back to a position they already decided he couldn't field and benched one of their 4 or 5 best hitters multiple times a week to get that guy in? Your suggestion is not as mainstream as you seem to be suggesting it is. I want to see Jenkins, too. I have no idea if he'll perform from the jump or not. I'm not forcing Keaschall back to the dirt and benching Larnach multiple times a week in the heat of a playoff chase to find out if he's going to be like most rookies (even the elite prospects) and struggle some out of the gate, or if he'll be an outlier and outperform nearly my entire roster.

I don't follow the logic. Are you suggesting that these haven't been 4 of the Twins best hitters in 2026? And if you are, then I don't think there's common ground to be had. If you aren't, then I'm confused on why you're so amped to bench any of them for any meaningful number of games while the team is in the last wild card spot. What I would do and what is reasonable for the Twins to do are different things. And the idea that there should be no expected decline for a 34-year-old bell is nothing but a strawman. Or that Larnach's arb jump has no impact on decisions. I'm pretty sure we're on the same page that Keaschall and Buxton have everyday roles in 2027. The hypothetical question has no impact on the current playoff race they're in. You know I'd have made many different decisions between last deadline and today. But the situation today is what it is. The "bring them back next year" question isn't some deep, insightful idea. It's just a strawman that ignores the reality of the differences in situations.

Someone with Jenkins "hoped for" talent. Or at least hoped for results. What if he comes up and goes 3 for his first 30? Send him back down, apologize to Larnach, Bell, Buxton, and Keaschall for benching them multiple times because this kid was obviously going to be better than them? How many other 21-year-old Jenkins types can you name where other teams have sacrificed ABs for guys like Buxton, Bell, Larnach, and Keaschall? Especially while being half a game up in the wild card race. The Yankees didn't start sitting Jazz Chisholm once a week to get Lombard ABs. They didn't put Ben Rice behind the plate to get Lombard ABs. They didn't move McMahon (who's a worse hitter than anyone the Twins would move/bench) to get him ABs. They didn't move anyone around. They sat Jose Caballero and have been running essentially a 9-man lineup every day. The Tigers didn't bench Carpenter, Greene, or even Vierling, Perez, Meadows, or Outman types for Clark. They all got hurt. Max Clark is playing over guys named Julks and Malgeri. The idea of sitting 4 of your best hitters on a regular basis to get a rookie into the lineup in a playoff chase is actually rather bold. It's not a regular occurrence.

The Caratini at 1B complaint is valid. But are we really comparing a kid with a grand total of 0 MLB pitches seen to a 3-time batting champ and established offensive star?

I will never understand the argument of "0 games of Buxton is better than 100 games of Buxton." Yeah, it sucks he hasn't been able to stay healthy. The team YEARS ago needed to start doing a significantly better job of having another starting quality CFer on the roster. They did it here and there, but not consistently enough. But having an all star for 100 games is better than not having that all star. The Twins will not be better in 2027 with "a whole new outfield."

That's a totally different answer than your original "do him a favor" statement. Buxton has said over and over and over that he doesn't want to be traded. Trading him wouldn't be "doing him a favor," it'd be making the business decision you find best for your business. I'd argue that trading him is no longer the best business decision, but that's neither here nor there. Your original comment was that they should do Buxton a favor. Trading somebody who doesn't want to be traded is not doing them a favor. And as has been pointed out, they can't trade him without his OK, anyways. They haven't been able to since he signed his extension.

I knew you'd at least appreciate that.

DH- Bell 36 of 36 C- Jeffers 29 of 36 1B- Lewis 36 of 36 2B- Clemens every game against righties, Kreidler against lefties 3B- Lee 36 of 36 SS- Culpepper 36 of 36 (only guy who's at real risk of losing his spot for a cold streak that is shorter than about 0-30) LF- Larnach 36 of 36 unless Martin comes back to platoon again CF- Buxton 36 of 36 RF- Keaschall 36 of 36 That'd be my plan as of today. There'd be 0 "planned rest" days (outside of Jeffers), there'd be 0 "keep player X fresh" days, there'd be 0 "see if he gets hot" days. Jackson would catch any of the 7 non-Jeffers games that come against teams that run to take advantage of his arm while Caratini would get the others. I'll take the real defensive boost of Kreidler over Clemens against lefties. Unless one of those guys comes in and says "not feeling well today, skip, better put somebody else out there," I'm going with that lineup from now until somebody gets hurt. These 9 non-Culpepper guys have gotten us here and they're either getting us to the playoffs or they're not. There's a 0% chance Shelton does this, but it's what my plan would be.

Oh, nothing but respect for you. One of my favorite posters and I know we see generally eye to eye on many things. I enjoy disagreeing with you on something because I know it's coming from a thoughtful place with real reasoning behind it. But I don't think asking about how you know a hot or cold streak is starting or ending is being extreme. It's the real-life decision that you're talking about. If you're going to sit Larnach because he's "cooled down" then you have to know when that moment is. You have to know when he's passed a threshold into "cooled down." What constitutes cooling down and sitting your significantly above average hitter on any regular basis? So, I don't know if 4 hits in 3 games means he's out of it to you. That's an important and real question. If he should sit in order to see if Roden, or whoever, can get hot, you need to know what being cold and hot are. It doesn't have to be exact numbers over an exact amount of time (that part I guess is a little extreme to ask), but you have to be able to define it in some way, shape, or form. Otherwise, what are you making decisions on? The "cooled down" argument is a different argument than your "stay ready" argument. Roden, or whoever, getting regular ABs in case Larnach, or whoever, gets hurt is a very different thing than playing the hot hand or giving everybody a chance to get hot. Larnach's been hot for the season. If you're going to sit him because he isn't hot, you need to know what constitutes that. If you're going to get back to playing him every day like I think you'd agree a guy with his performance over that amount of time has earned, then you need to know what constitutes Roden not getting hot and/or Larnach heating up. Totally fine if you aren't settled on things. But I am. And I think the numbers Larnach, Buxton, and Keaschall are more than enough to be settled. At least settled enough that in a playoff chase I'm not going to say "well, maybe Roden or a rookie can put up numbers 20+% above average, let's throw them in there just in case instead of the guys who are already doing it."

I don't get how Buxton, Larnach, Keaschall, and Bell haven't clearly separated themselves as the best players and worthy of everyday play. That's what this thread is about. A catcher coming up for an injured OF instead of Jenkins or Emma. The point about Roden wasn't that he's clearly worse than those other non-Buxton, Larnach, Keaschall, or Bell options, it's that I don't care if he's been on ice because there are going to be multiple other options that haven't been on ice and they're all in the same "unproven, hope they're good" box. I don't care about giving ABs to Roden now to see if he may be good if they're forced to play him later. If he's forced on the field for injury reasons later, he's going to have to figure it out. Hope he's been taking lots of BP. The Twins have their 3 OFers and DH. If a 121 OPS+ over 371 PAs doesn't earn you the status of being an everyday player, then there's no such thing. Lewis and Keaschall didn't require sitting your best player, a guy with a 121 OPS+ in 371 PAs, or a guy with an .819 OPS since May first. And definitely didn't require sitting those guys while .5 games back in the wild card race with 36 games to go. The Twins 4 best hitters with at least 300 PAs this year are Byron Buxton, Trevor Larnach, Luke Keaschall, and Josh Bell. The only guy who jumps in there if we lower the PA threshold is Jeffers. I think we are miles off if your suggestion is sitting any of them during the final push for a playoff spot in order to see what Roden has and/or so he isn't cold in case one of them gets hurt later. If it was April, I'm all for it. But it's not. There's not 136 games left, there's 36. Yes, an injury likely will happen, but it may not be an OFer or DH. And then you've just lessened your lineup numerous times while chasing a playoff spot for no reason at all. Larnach has 4 hits in his last 3 games. Is his cold streak over? How much opportunity does Roden get to "get hot" at the expense of one of your 4 best non-catcher hitters? How do we know if he's hot? Does he have to play multiple games in a row or is it 3 random games a week or what? I think "get hot" is a lot easier of a concept on paper than in the real world. Especially with 36 games left.

Sorry, at this point of the season (very important in this discussion) I just don't believe in forcing lesser players into the lineup just to keep them fresh in case somebody else gets hurt. Over the course of 162? Yes, you need to consider those kinds of things. But the marathon is coming to an end. If you're trying to win the race you just put your head down and go. If you pull a hammy 10 feet from the finish line, so be it. You're fighting half a dozen teams for 1 spot. If Larnach blows a tire on September 20th, so be it. Roden, or Jenkins, or whoever needs to perform. Or somebody needs to step up and perform better to make up for the rust on Roden. I'm not going to play lesser players now just in case I'm forced to play them in the future. You may not be 1 game out as you head into San Francisco because you're forcing lesser players into the lineup now just in case you are forced to play them then. If Buxton is hurt then he should be on the IL. But he's played CF every game since he's been off the IL, so he can't be that hurt. Nobody is 100% at this point of the season. If he's not hurt, then you put your best player on the field every day while you're trying to make the playoffs. What determines a "hot hand?" What's the sample size? 1 game? 5 games? 20 games? A week? 2 weeks? A month? That's much easier said than done. Especially when there's 36 games left in the season. Trying to guess the hot streaks for the last 36 games is a losing proposition. If Larnach slumps the rest of the year, so be it. He got you here. The odds of him going on a hot streak are significantly higher than Roden going on one. Jenkins or Emma not being called up instead of Jackson is what got this thread going. Jenkins isn't "on ice" in St Paul. Neither is Emma. I'd guess there aren't a whole lot of people who think Roden is a better baseball player, and preferred injury replacement for an everyday OF/DH, than Jenkins right now. The shocking move would be if an everyday OF/DH goes on the IL and Jenkins isn't the call then. I have absolutely no fear of Roden being on ice because the odds of him being their only option between now and San Francisco are miniscule. Jenkins, Emma, Wallner, Martin coming back, Gonzalez, Mendez, Kreidler to 2B and Clemens to the OF with Gray being the callup. Lots of options beyond just Roden. And most of those other options are going to be playing between now and September 20. But, to me, it's August 18th, not April 18th. They're .5 games out of the wild card because nobody will just put the rest of the bad teams to bed and take that last spot. There are 7 teams fighting for that last spot. I'm not putting a lesser player on the field just so they can stay only 20% worse instead of being 30% worse. Here's my best 9 every day. The only consideration I have from now until the playoff field is decided is who my best 9 guys are on any given day. And right now, Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall across the outfield and Bell at DH have earned the very clear distinction of being their best guys.

You don't think the OF/DH spots have had their guys identified? Larnach and his 121 OPS+ hasn't claimed a spot? Buxton is the best player on the team, I assume we're all on board that he has CF when he's healthy. You don't think Keaschall and his .819 OPS since May 1 has claimed a spot? I guess you could argue Bell at DH, but he has a .982 OPS in August. If those guys haven't claimed spots, I don't know that it's possible to claim spots. Culpepper could've provided a "spark." I'm all for trying young guys and seeing what they can do earlier in the season. But the Twins have decided they're going to try to back into the playoffs with a sub-.500 record. Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, and Bell aren't getting benched with the hope of Jenkins or Emma being immediate successes. And they shouldn't be. Those 4 guys have claimed everyday roles. Either that, or you don't believe in the ability to claim an everyday role. Which is fine, but completely different than not having identified the OF and DH guys on this team.

Isn't your entire complaint that they don't use all their roster spots? That they're "wasting" roster spots by having guys they don't play? I don't follow the logic of then arguing that they're going to play everyone. They've been playing 11.5 guys for most of the recent games. Martin was platooning with Larnach, Caratini is getting 1B (no idea why) and C time, and Kreidler has turned into a utility guy. Roden hasn't been playing much, and as you've been raging against for weeks, Jackson essentially never plays. And you've also been raging about the idea of Roden ever playing for weeks. They haven't been playing. When it comes to the spots that affect Jenkins, the Twins have been playing 5 guys. It's been the LF platoon, Buxton in CF, Keaschall in RF, and Bell at DH. Larnach has a 121 OPS+. I'm sorry, but I'm not sitting him for a rookie who's never seen an MLB pitch.

Just going to have to agree to disagree. There's 36 games left after tonight. You care far more about them using all 13 position player spots than I do. Larnach-Buxton-Keaschall needs to be their OF for every game against a righty between now and the day they either clinch a playoff birth or are mathematically eliminated. And with Gonzalez struggling in AAA, there really isn't a righty bat to pair with Larnach, so he should probably just start every game. No idea what the point of Roden in the OF today is. And Bell should start every game at DH. Those 4 positions are locked in until somebody gets hurt. They're 4 of their best bats. A competitive team doesn't sit any of those guys during the last 36 games. We're just not going to agree on them using all 13 spots during the last 36 games. Play your best 9 each and every game until you're either in or out of the playoffs. DH- Bell C- Jeffers 1B- Lewis 2B- Clemens 3B- Lee SS- Culpepper (unless he struggles for a stretch with the bat and then put the better defender at SS) LF- Larnach CF- Buxton RF- Keaschall Every. Day. Caratini can catcher every 4th or 5th game. Or Jackson. I don't really care. But Kreidler, Roden, Jenkins, Emma, GG, Ross, Wallner, or anyone else people have mentioned on any of these threads have no reason to step on the field for more than an 8th or 9th inning pinch running situation for Bell or Jeffers. Or maybe Larnach. And as we've discussed before, Jackson is actually just as fast as just about anybody they'd use in just a pinch running role. I simply do not care about having the 13th guy play any kind of meaningful role on this team with the current situation. We aren't talking 162 games anymore. It's no longer a marathon. It's a sprint. There's no more rest days. There's no sitting your best players once a week just so you can put a rookie in the lineup. It's your best 9 every day and see where you go. Jenkins plays the wrong position to get himself in that "best 9" scenario. He's waiting for an injury to Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, or Bell. It's his only path to the majors before the minor league season ends.

I have no problem with not thinking Gonzalez has earned a callup, but I'm not sure what else you wanted him to do to "impress" during his callup for Gray.

Just going to have to agree to disagree. Luke Keaschall playing 2B is not what is best for the MN Twins. You need an arm at 2B, too. Not every play is to your left and close to 1B. Being able to turn 2 is a pretty big part of playing 2B, and your arm matters in that.

I'm certainly not arguing this is a well-constructed roster or that Jackson is a good move here. I don't expect to see Roden all that often. He's certainly not the ideal fit as a partner with Larnach in LF. I'd have called Gonzalez up even though he's not doing well in AAA. At least he actually plays OF (despite not being a plus there) and hits right-handed to match Larnach's need for a platoon partner. Overall, though, I don't think there's much of a difference between Jackson, Roden, Wallner, or any number of non-Jenkins options. None of it is straight forward as Culpepper in, Kreidler to the bench. Until they give up on the season, Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, and Bell are playing as often as physically possible against righties. And you're not going to call Jenkins up to be a short-side platoon partner or play 3 or 4 times a week. Gonzalez was really the only young guy who fit, and his performance makes it very defensible to not bring him up. Keaschall moving off 2B really changes how this team fits together right now.

There isn't a thing I care less about in baseball than "defensive stats." They are flawed to the point of meaning nothing. Luke Keaschall can't play 2B. He doesn't have the hands for it. He has far more likelihood of becoming a passable, or even good, outfielder. They should tell him to spend his entire offseason learning LF and leave him there until they have a better option or an open DH spot. He's not going to DH on this team this year, though. Which is the point. They aren't taking Bell's bat out of the lineup. And they aren't putting him on the field with a glove. Josh Bell is the DH every game from now until they give up on 2026, which, based on the narrative they're trying to sell, won't be until they're mathematically eliminated. If they hadn't spent February through now selling "meaningful games in September" this would be a different discussion. But they have. And they aren't benching the guys who've been their best bats all season to give any other OF or DH playing time on an everyday basis. They simply aren't going to do it. Plenty of us have wanted them to be using this season as a transition year for 2027 and beyond from the beginning. But that isn't the path they chose. And they should stick to the path they've chosen until it falls off a cliff. Even if some of us don't like that path. This team needs to get much better at picking a path and sticking to it. Switching to "get the kids experience" mode while they're 1.5 games back in the wild card after not selling Jeffers, Ryan, and Lopez during the offseason or at the deadline would be an awful decision. Tom picked his path. Wasn't the path I'd have chosen, but it's the one he chose, and they need to stick with it now. Jenkins and Emma aren't coming up until there's an everyday OF job available. Keaschall isn't going back to the IF after being moved to the OF. Bell isn't getting benched. This is the "competitive" team they've been selling all year and they aren't benching anyone who was key in getting here to call up Jenkins or Emma. And they shouldn't.

I don't think this is the case at all. They are trying to sell this "we're playoff contenders and care about winning" storyline. They didn't trade MLB pieces away because they didn't want to hurt their PR story of "going for it." They've been selling the story of "meaningful games in September" since spring training. They weren't going to turn around and sell 2 of their better hitters at the deadline and ruin that narrative. Jeffers especially was never really on the table.

There's a very big difference between not playing 162 and sitting once a week. Sitting once a week over the course of the season would be automatically limiting a guy to 136 games. Nobody is doing that with Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, or Bell. Nobody. But, the bigger difference in this conversation is that we're not talking about 162, we're talking about 37. There is 0 reason to sit any of those guys if it isn't injury related for the rest of the season. They shouldn't miss another healthy game. I hate the "spark" and "jolt" talk. The deadline was supposed to be a spark and a jolt. They're going for it! They believe in the clubhouse! Get excited and play well! Then Culpepper coming up was supposed to be a spark and a jolt. Emma and Jenkins getting called up doesn't make the guys in the clubhouse suddenly go "oh, now we should go, we got this kid here and he's going to carry us to the promised land!" And they shouldn't be expected to outperform Clemens or Larnach from the jump anyway. I think that's a huge thing that's ignored. Many of you want them called up because you think they're just going to take the league by storm and carry this team or something. The other guys in the clubhouse don't care if Jenkins is a top 15 prospect. The lineup isn't going to be better just because they called up a kid fans are excited about. That isn't how MLB clubhouses work. You only call Jenkins or Emma up now if you're going to play them every day, and you expect them to outperform somebody on the MLB roster. That's a big ask of either of them. Look, I want to see them, too. I would've had Emma on the opening day roster and Jenkins up by mid-season if I were running things. But the idea that they're doing anything crazy right now by not calling them up when there's no every day OF spot open doesn't make sense to me. They were never going to be the responding move to Martin on the IL. Buxton to the IL? Definitely. But they aren't going to start playing the guys who got them here less just to hope Jenkins or Emma is an immediate success.

I have no desire to ever watch Luke Keaschall play 2B again for the rest of his life. Well, at least not until he retires and joins a beer league softball team. Yes, there are ways to get Jenkins or Emma on this team and play them. But I think people are going through a lot of mental gymnastics to find a way to do it. Martin hitting the IL is absolutely not the straightforward move that opens the door for Jenkins or Emma. If you're calling Jenkins or Emma up, it's to play every day. Not 4 days a week. Not 5 days a week. Every. Single. Game. Maybe 2 days off the rest of the year. They aren't guys you're calling up to fill Martin's role. You aren't sitting Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, or Bell once a week during a wild card race just to get a rookie ABs. No matter how good you think that rookie will be long-term. That's the problem. The Twins are "in" this race because nobody else in the AL will pull away and put them to bed. They're 1.5 games back. They aren't going to spend the whole season talking about "meaningful games" in September and then start sitting 4 of their best hitters regularly in mid-August to play rookies. It isn't happening. They aren't changing their story about being competitive now. ILing Buxton is very different than ILing Martin. If they IL Buxton and don't call one of those 2 up, fans should burn Target Field to the ground. But they didn't. They IL'd a guy who pinch runs and hits against lefties. Jenkins and Emma don't fill that role. And they aren't going to change the roles of multiple other players that have been key to their "success" to this point in order to force a lefty hitting OF onto the roster. And they shouldn't. Until they're ready to turn the page on 2026.

I'm not saying it's impossible, but I also think assuming Jenkins or Emma would be any better than "average ones like Bell and Clemens" in the immediate future is assuming a lot. There are actually not a lot of teams that sit each of their 3 starting OFers and DH once a week. There's actually like 0 teams that do that. Do you have an example of a team that would openly sit Larnach, Buxton, Keaschall, and Bell type players once a week just to play a rookie in what they claim is an attempt to make the playoffs in August and September? You seem to care more about not "wasting" roster spots than actually playing to win. Which is fine. But the Twins are 1.5 games out of the wild card and have spent the entire season saying they're good enough to compete and make the playoffs now. You don't sit Keaschall, Buxton, Larnach, and Bell (who has a .933 OPS this month) once a week just so you can call up Jenkins or Emma and hope they're good right out of the gate. They're trying to make the playoffs whether anyone likes it or not. You don't sit 4 of your 5 best hitters once a week if that's the case. I want to see Jenkins and Emma as much as anyone else does, but I don't know why they'd sit everyone at the top of their order just to force one of them in there right now.