chpettit19

Now you're playing semantics. Use whatever word you want, the implications are that the Twins screwed up/ignored a problem/weren't even aware of said problem because they signed him to a 1 year deal with 2 option years. Pretending that's at all the same to signing him to a 12 or 13 year deal is nonsense. They're not at all the same thing. And who says he didn't jostle that plate (I mean he literally admitted that a slide late in the year had him nervous as he felt something in the plate) during the season and that's what the other teams are now seeing. I seriously don't understand how you don't see a difference between the next 2 years and the next 9 years. What reason do you have to believe the Mets or Giants are seeing something that at all concerns them in the next 2 seasons?

That's my bad. Was just trying to be friendly and helpful!

Miguel Sano.

While I agree that moving Maeda to the pen sounds intriguing in a vacuum, I think they're going to give him every chance to keep a spot in the rotation. Almost all of his money is tied into games started and innings. Putting him in the pen would cost him millions of dollars, and that's not a good look for a team. Maeda was also far more than a spot starter for the Dodgers. They moved him to the pen at the end of the season, and for the playoffs, but he was a legit starter for the vast majority of the season when he was there. He made 32, 25, 20, and 26 starts in his seasons in LA. He was no spot starter.

I definitely get the frustration with the offseason, and team really, as a whole. It's not been a good run for us fans. I think our best hope is for a trade of some sort. Or multiple trades. I'd think the trade market will start heating up a little now that there's no real FA difference makers left.

Are we just going to create a thread for every FA signing for the rest of the offseason and complain that the Twins didn't sign them even though they aren't better than the options already on the roster? Cuz that's where we're at. There's nobody left that significantly improves this team. Especially in the starting pitcher category. Complaints about them not signing the top end FA while they were still available are certainly justifiable. But at this point we're complaining that injury riddle, high-3s to low 4s ERA pitchers are getting passed on when the Twins already have 4 guys that are already as good, or better, options than that. The FA market is no longer an option for improving this team. Time to accept that. There's nobody left on the market we should be sad they didn't sign.

I'm not "giving them credit" for his success. I'm simply pointing out that the entire premise of the Twins needing to get over Ortiz and not force everyone into a cookie cutter Ortiz approach is wrong. You literally just disproved your own stance of them forcing hitters to be a certain way. Not to mention the 18 other guys you agreed they didn't make do things with that 1 approach. My point from my very first post on here was that this FO couldn't care less about Ortiz, and are developing players in a far from cookie cutter way.

Which later years? Years 3 through 12 or 13? No. Years 10 through 12 or 13? Yeah, probably. But there's a whole lot of years between there. The point is that pointing to the Twins passing him on a physical for a 3 year deal (that everyone knew was really a 1 year deal) as them being incompetent now that other teams don't want to pay him for 12 or 13 years is ignoring a whole lot of context. Like 10 years of context. It's just confirmation bias.

That's 18 players that "were able to go their own way." I think that's a pretty good sample size to say the Twins aren't forcing everyone to be "pull and lift every pitch" hitters. The Twins were actually attempting to get Buxton to hit the ball on the ground and use his speed more when he was struggling. That was before the new FO took over. Buxton's first successful season was the season after the new FO took over and the development process changed from "everyone needs to be small ball slap hitters" to "take what they do best and try to add on top of it." Buxton is actually an example of a success under this FO by not forcing a player to be what they wanted them to be. The Twins were absolutely not first on the HR bandwagon. This FO leaned into it harder than the previous one. Significantly more, actually. But they didn't lead the charge here. And aren't leading it now. Simmons is your example of them ruining a player? I mean if that's your best example I think it speaks for itself. He's never been a good hitter. His very best season ever was 2018 when he was barely above league average. He's always been a terrible hitter. Sano K'd more in 2019 than he did in 2021 or 2022. 2019 was tied for his 2nd lowest max exit velo (not counting his lost 2022 season) season of his career. He hit the ball harder on average in 2020 than he did 2019. His hardhit% was better in 2020, and only slightly worse in 2021. I don't think he's a good example of what you're trying to get at either. Of the top 10 HR hitting teams in baseball last year, 8 of them were top 10 scoring offenses. Not sure that really supports the "lucky enough to receive juiced balls" hypothesis.

Ah, got ya. Well then I simply am glad they learned from previous mistakes and are no longer bringing in pitchers that can't start more than 20 games. They've already got 4 guys in the rotation that we aren't sure can make more than 20 starts, and I don't think bringing in another one really solves any problems. He's a good pitcher, but not significantly better than anything already in the rotation so I don't see him as any sort of real upgrade over the #2-3 type, injury prone pitchers they already have.

I understand what you're saying. I'm saying it doesn't make sense. If you don't like their MO (bringing in injured pitchers), you shouldn't be upset that they didn't bring in Eovaldi. You can't have it both ways. You can't be mad that they've acquired pitchers with injury histories and then complain that they're dumb for not bringing in a pitcher with an injury history. You called their decision making "obstinate." Again, you can't have it both ways. Either they're obstinate and don't change their MO (bringing in injured pitchers) or they weren't obstinate here and learned from previous mistakes and avoided the injury prone guy. They can't be both obstinate and change their ways.

I don't think the David Ortiz decision has impacted this FO in any way, shape, or form. The "Ortiz mold" is the MLB mold in 2023. Power wins. This isn't about David Ortiz, it's about modern baseball strategy. I disagree that they're trying to turn every player into Ortiz, though. Didn't do it with Arraez. Or Celestino. Or Miranda. Or Polanco. Or Urshela. Or Gordon. Or Kirilloff. Or Martin. Or Lewis. Or Rosario. Or Wade Jr. Or Astudillo. Or Adrianza. Or Kepler. Or Grossman. Or Mauer. Or Escobar. Or Cave. I do, however, agree that they need more up the middle type athletes. HRs still rule the league, though. Power is still king. We'll see if it balances out a little with the new rules being put in place, though.

Except that isn't the MO you complained about. You complained about injuries. "And I know about the injuries. He would fit right in with our pitching MO." That's not easy to follow. You want them to sign a guy who's stayed healthy for 2 out of 11 seasons despite the fact that you're complaining about how many injured pitchers they bring in.

So you're mad about the pitching MO of the FO. Admit this guy fits that MO you don't like. And you're mad they didn't sign him. Not sure I understand the argument there.

Strongly disagree. You're assuming their injury concerns are for the first 1 or 2 years of 12 and 13 year deals. But to each their own.

That's my bad. The Twins definitely should've been concerned about what Correa's leg would look like in 8 years when they were signing a 1 year deal. They're so dumb! I know Mike knows that's sarcasm, but for anyone questioning, that was sarcasm.

The Cohen situation is interesting. He didn't overrule his staff on Rocker last year. How much more does he want Correa? I'd guess a lot, but he's also not blindly doing deals. He let deGrom walk. Likely due to his injury concerns I'd guess. He's aggressive, but I don't know that we should just assume he's going to be reckless here.

If you're referring to the deal he signed last year, he passed the physical because it was for 1 year, not 12 or 13. And he had a slide this last season where he felt something in his surgically repaired leg. It's entirely possible that that slide aggravated something and the Drs with these other teams are now seeing that that leg isn't likely to hold up for as long as they'd like. Or the insurance company, as others have stated, don't like the odds of it holding up. He hasn't taken a physical for the Twins after their 10/285 offer so if that's the one you were referencing it's as simple as it hasn't happened so he hasn't passed anything.

Looking like short years, high AAV deals for Correa moving forward. I still expect him to end up in NY with the Mets, but on a deal similar to the 3 years 105 million deal he had here. Without the opt outs.

If the Twins would be willing to pay Devers they 100% should see if he's available. He'd instantly be the best player on the team (because Buxton doesn't play enough). But there's a 0% chance they'd pay market rate for him so there's no way they should actually trade for him. Overall, I find it hard to believe they're going to really invest in another 3B at this point. They traded Urshela so Miranda can play there. Unless you're upgrading on Miranda (with someone like Devers, even though Devers is probably best suited to be a DH most the time) there's really no point in bringing someone else in. They're trying to transition to the "new core" and Miranda is the only youngster that's stayed healthy and produced so he's getting a spot handed to him. Probably the right strategy.

Or should I say Moreno and Gurriel to Arizona? If this is the entire trade it blows my mind. I would never have guessed Varsho could demand a return like that. Never. Good for Arizona.

I'll take the over on Mahle, he's my bold prediction for 2023. And my expectation is that he performs well enough that the Twins won't extend him because they won't pay market rate. But that's a different discussion for a different post. The FO is in a tough spot. I don't know how secure in their jobs they feel, and that's a huge variable here. If they feel like they've got another couple years of runway/would be allowed to go into an abbreviated rebuild I think they should be trading some veterans this offseason. My guess is the Pohalds/St Peter see the dwindling attendance numbers, and their expiring TV deal, and want no part of a public punting of the 2023 season. Especially after St Peter's comments on attendance at the end of the year, they have to be publicly showing they're trying to win in 2023. I don't think they've done a good job of that. And based on convos with my friends and the forums here, I don't think I'm in the minority. With the competition in this division, this half-a'd approach to the offseason could be enough to get into the playoffs in 2023. That's not good enough for me, and I'm not excited about this team at all. But I can see where there's hope. I just hope they're willing to make decisions quickly during the season if young guys are taking spots and let them run with them.

It makes me sad, and likely adds to my current frustration, that Larnach, Lewis, and Kirilloff have gone through what they have the last 2 years. If even 2 of those guys had established themselves as the top 6 in a good lineup bat with solid to above average defense that we all expect/hope they will become 2023 would look so much different to me. Arraez, Buxton, Polanco, Miranda, and 2 of those guys would've been a great base to build from. But since I can't trust any of those 3 to be a key player for the 2023 Twins I'm left crossing my fingers on a Gallo deal I wish they never even had to consider.

Gallo causes me a lot of cognitive dissonance. I know he's an above average, likely All Star level player if he bashes 38 bombs and plays above average to gold glove quality defense. But I hate the 3 true outcome style of game, and watching him will make me pull out what little hair I have left.

I'll be pretty shocked if Polanco isn't a top 15 2B in 2023 again. I will not be shocked if Kepler continues to struggle. But I hope he bounces back and improves.