DocBauer

Outstanding article. Thank you very much for the information, and all the hard work you put in. I do think that certain prospects just set their own schedule, like Berrios has done thus far. That being said, a jump to a level by a below-average age player vs another similarly young talent DOES NOT bespeak the future career or capabilities of either player. All in all, I'd hold of expectations or plans on 2015 until we see how the next month and a half work out. As a further example, Berrios was a pitcher and baseball player. Stewart split a lot of his early development as a football player. Just based on today, I'd start him back in CR to build further confidence a and experience with the idea of a fairly quick promotion to high A. Of course, the talent is potentially tremendous, and we have the balance of the season and winter ball for Stewart to force the issue.

Also what chief said. And still young 30's. Honestly, where is the downside here? If everyone is healthy and playing even close to their potential, let's say the lineup is: 1) Santana=CF/ and or SS 2) Dozier= 2B 3) Mauer=1B 4) ? 5) ? 6) ? Arcia and Plouffe could definitely be part of that. But isn't a solid veteran bat or two mixed in there a better alternative while waiting for Sano, Buxton and Vargas to arrive?

I am NOT a fan of Boras! I understand his objective to make the most money for his players, and thusly, for himself. And I suppose in the long run, he's accomplished goals often. But he has also burned several of his clients in the past with his advice and projections. And I'm also surprised at some of the contracts he has suckered teams in to. No, I don't think Pelfrey's deal qualifies under that umbrella. It's only 2 years, not for that much in proper context, and the Twins truly thought they were getting an even more healthy and rebounding Pelfrey for 2 years, based on last year. And it's actually kind of surprising that Ryan and Boras seem to have a healthy relationship. I hope that bodes well for the future, especially in regard to Meyer. But this all a bit of digression on my part. Here is where I get raked over the coals! I know it's coming. But unabashedly, I print my stance, and the reasons behind it. I am in favor of re-signing Morales. My reasons are very simple. The Twins have one of the best farm systems in all of baseball, seem to be loaded to the gills with talented prospects at almost all positions. And I am as excited as anyone as to the possible futures of these talented youngsters and the, hopefully soon, future of the Twins. But it taking just a small step back, I'm also a realist. Buxton and Sano were both slowed this season. This affects the OF, the INF, and possible combinations to come. Example: Plouffe maybe moving to the OF. Willingham is gone at seasons end, if not before. We're uncertain at LF and CF to begin next season. I think Vargas in an excellent prospect. And his talent, production and work ethic, all echoed by Tom Kelley, speak to his future. And he's a perfect fit for DH and a backup to Mauer. But he's also young, has yet to hit AAA, and may not be ready to start 2015. Rosario is loaded with talent, but is still getting on track. Hopefully, Hicks is also getting on track, with a believer/supporter in Rod Carew of all people. But to think the Twins will march in to 2015 with Buxton, Sano, Vargas, Rosario and Hicks all ready to assume a starting/primary role in the lineup is naive. A) we need to plug guys in to the daily lineup to not only have a chance to win, but to also promote a winning attitude/possibility it doesn't hurt to have at least a couple quality, productive veterans for the youngsters to work with and learn from. Yes Morales has been a bit of a disappointment so far, which might bring his cost down, but he practically crawled out of bed/golf cart when he joined the Twins. He's also been getting in to a groove lately. He's also been a proven producer when healthy, and could be a nice influence for many of the Twins young Latin players. Now, maybe he's a jerk and a bad clubhouse guy, though I've never heard anything to suggest this. And maybe he and Boras will try to parlay a DH with a so-so 2014 in to a big and long term deal. Under any of these circumstances, I say NO WAY. I'll take my chances elsewhere. But something fair dollar-wise, 1-3 years, or options involved, I'm all in. He fits the heart of the lineup with a proven, veteran producer, who can also be moved at a higher value with more time put in.

Not that I think lists are any kind of absolute verdict, but there are a couple surprises. Not sure which surprises me more, the fact that Buxton is still at 3, or that Sano dropped to 20. And I don't really care because you give me those two fully healthy next year, it all changes again. A little surprised though about Vargas, May, having great years, maybe and definitely better than last season. Not sure Polanco doesn't also belong. I suppose the run of early season errors has something to do with that. But there are so few middle infielders who posses that bat and hitting potential.

I have to say I'm pleased, surprised and proud how the Twins have rebounded the past week in Seattle and Colorado. This team has shown fight and resiliency this year, something not always seen the past two years. (I tend to give a pass on the 2011 team as we returned the majority of our roster from 2010, quality guys and players, with horrible injury problems) Despite some early moves out of ST that were highly questionable, mass injuries in waves first to the OF, then the infield, even when losing the team has been competitive, very seldom losing by more than a run or two, even mounting effort end comebacks in some of those losses. This is a far more competitive team than the past couple seasons. Hats of to Karnak clone Dave who predicted the twins recent run before the break. "We're not worthy!" I don't know if it's a fair or accurate assessment, but, I've heard all season that the Twins second half should be, in theory, less challenging than the first half. And it would appear that starting the next "half" of the season at home could be a nice springboard. 6 games under .500 at this point, and more competitive at this point shows definite improvement. I don't believe the team cam make up 6 games with a blistering couple weeks in July. But if they could, or could close the gap to 2-3 games under, I like the chances to finish .500 or a couple games above...maybe. Why? Because even with the inevitable trades of Willingham and Correia, unsure of anyone else for various reasons, Santana and Mauer healthy, the hopefully healthy return of Nolasco, and an August and September that should, for the first time in 3 years, see some exciting auditions. For a team that is showing more "gumption" than it's predacessors, has some talented youngsters up, more to come, I can see a team with a goal and a spark. Of course, I remain an eternal optimist! I want to echo the sentiment to see the youngsters who are a part of the future the second half. Truly, I don't care if these kids come up tomorrow, or September 1st. I say this for three reasons: 1) I believe in developing prospects, not rushing, not promoting just for the sake of it. Sometimes finishing the milb season and getting that Sept. call up is the best course. 2) It sounds easy to type things like "trade so and so, and just cut so and so". In reality, it's not always quite so defined and easy to accomplish. 3) Even on a rebuilding team, working at getting younger, young prospects either knocking on the door or getting close, having a couple/few solid, quality veterans to lead and learn from is not a bad thing. Suzuki just as an example. I sooo want Pino to get his shot like he did last season to close out 2013. And even if the Twins did trade him, they could re-sign him during the offseason...maybe. But then again, he's meant a lot to the team this season. So maybe, as a whole, the Twins are just better with his knowledge and leadership. Just a thought, not an answer.

Except, Morneau's Avg/OB%/Slg%/& OPS are only slight points lower away from Coors Field than at home.

I believe the Twins should indeed look for bargain options along this line, but not sure there is anything here with O'Neill that offers anything more than AAA filler. And the Twins might already have as good or better option there in Eric Farris. I do think we should keep eyes and options open. And I do think that if Correia or Willingham turn out to have any real value, then a viable, decent CF/4th OF acquisition should be strongly considered for next season. Just not sure this is it.

There is certainly nothing special about KC. And that's where the angst comes in. As stated, the Twins needed SP solutions, and Correia was seen as filler, not someone to help lead a staff. Honestly, if you look at how well he pitched once the season got under way, you could say the same things about Pelfrey. For the bulk of last season, both actually pitched quite solid for a losing team. Its also timing, to a degree. Everyone wanted more than them, and the Twins needed more. Now, with Hughes and Gibson, and let's say a soon-to-be healthy Nolasco, a signing of KC, or Pelfrey for that matter, would also be met with discouragement, even if they were unto themselves very positive 4-5 starters with the likes of May and Meyer in the immediate wings.

Wish him the absolute best! A great ambassador for the Twins, baseball, and a great story this year. No fault of the Twins to move him last season, or not to re-sign him the past off season. But it's a shame, even with Mauer's move to 1B, that we couldn't have seen what this season might bring, and have brought him back on board this year. I wonder, with Morneau's resurgence, and Mauer looking much like his old self before his recent injury, if this might be a positive indicator of Mauer's full recovery going forward.

I think it's time. Really thought Meyer should probably have gone to the Futures Games on his own merit originally, and not as a replacement player for May. Don't know if that might be due to that short stretch where he didn't look very sharp, or the powers that be not wanting to pick two SP from one team. Really thought things were set up perfectly for May to get those couple last starts, appear in the Futures Game, (an honor that really shouldn't go unrecognized despite all the board debates), and then stay up with the Twins. With Meyer now looking very sharp again, and with Nolasco out, there is a real opportunity here still. I wonder if Meyer stays up. Best of luck to Diamond. Very disappointed things turned out this way. I really thought we found ourselves a nice, solid rotation bargain when he arrived.

Yes, of course years were also a factor, not just the per year dollars. But, of course, the whole point isn't really why didn't the Twins work out a deal sooner, (they should have), or ultimately how the bidding worked out. The point really is how the loss of one cornerstone player greatly influenced an entire teams approach and thinking over the next several seasons. Seems like everyone is having some fun with this, which was the intent.

While HR's and triples are more exciting, I'm right there with you on the value of doubles. Seems the Twins have been very strong in doubles production over the years. Which makes the numbers you posted kind of depressing. A healthy Mauer gives you a real shot at 40 every year. I think Arcia should be good for 30 plus as well. Dozier should also, but forgive me for being more excited for his homers. I also think Plouffe is a legit 2B producer. Suzuki and Escobar excite me, but scare me. Just based on gap power, and to a certain degree speed, I'd like to think we could/should have 6 guys with 30 plus doubles.

Of position players in the Twins system, Walker is tied for 3rd with Vargas and Polaco for hope/want/belief in a kid who has the ability to make an impact. He seems like a really good guy, and that only escalates the rooting for him. Pure average and contact are not the be-all and end-all of being a productive ML player. But much like Vargas, though a better athlete with real positional ability, if he can simply maintain acceptable Avg and OB numbers with his power, he had a high floor and an excellent ceiling.

LOL @ mystery novels. But thank you Curt! Truly, this is really just for fun, as I stated. But the whole idea came to me this past off season, and upon examining events as they unfolded, I was surprised how dominoes just seemed to fall from one recent event in Twins history. And what surprised me the most was, how simply and logically those dominos seemed to fall. I really hope others enjoy the article. And I look forward to input and commentary. This could be fun!

You know, things have changed a lot in all sports, not just baseball, in regard to young talent. Not saying there is a new formula to implement, with apologies to all the stat heads out there. Lol In the NFL, it used to be a QB was drafted, sat on the bench to learn 2-3 years, then got his shot. Now, even with lower salary numbers the past few years, everyone still expects a QB to start his rookie year. And yet, a successful few sku the rest as most wash out. Ever since the NBA allowed HS kids to drafted, very few ever amounted to anything. For every Kobe and Durant and James, most kids floundered, or only made it after several years and a change or two in teams. In baseball, Blyleven, just as an example, jumped very young to the majors when I was very little. But I do remember Gooden, Griffey and Rodriguez defying all odds and reaching the majors at 19 & 20. But like in most sports, I think we often confuse talent, potential, team need and want with reality. So few ever truly make an impact amongst so many, and we become enamored with the ones who reach the pinnacle so quickly, that we lose perspective and begin to believe every talented player should follow similar paths and results. Its just not natural or realistic. Even top talents develop at their own pace. Pitchers, generally, mature slower than position players as there are simply so many subtleties and nuances that bespeak success. May and Meyer are in no way "old" prospects. Both are having success in their first seasons at AAA that should have every Twins fan giddy with excitement. Remember, we are talking about young prospects building their arrival to successful ML careers, helping our team win, hopefully for many years. But it is impossible to draft a future hall of fame player. If someone could, they would be the highest paid executive in all of baseball. May should be up soon. But don't be surprised if he gets a couple starts back at AAA just to get back in rhythm after his calf injury. The Twins want to be careful with Meyer because they think so highly of him. I think he's on a similar path as Gibson, with the days and dates of arrival offset simply due to circumstance. I'd still be surprised, simply because he has to be added to the 40 man roster anyway, if he doesn't get at least a few ML innings out of the pen this season. I think it would really accelerate his maturation process.

OK, so the headliner is a grabber, thoroughly sensational, and not 100% accurate. Nor is it Torri's fault directly, but follow the train of thought involved here. It's interesting, kind of fun, realistically accurate, and something that occurred to me this past off season. This is for fun, FYI. 2007 was Hunter's final season with the Twins. Speculation was the Twins would ultimately re-sign Hunter to a big, fair contract, and he wasn't going anywhere. And if you recall...sorry it's such a bad memory to recall...the Angels suddenly swooped in and signed him for something like 3-4M more per season than what the Twins offered, and Torri was suddenly gone. Now, we can all lament the Twins not re-signing him before the season, or during, and simply avoiding his loss. But for the sake of this speculation, let's say they did. The 2007-2008 off season was not kind to the Twins as we also faced a situation with Johan Santana. The Twins chose to be pre-emptive by trading him before losing him to FA. Looking for the best deal possible, but rather desperate for a Hunter replacement, they chose a deal with the Mets that brought them a low level, though talented, prospect, 2 never where's, and Carlos Gomez, super talented, but rushed and not ready, as the centerpiece of the deal. The Yankees and Red Sox were also in the mix. And while we may never know exactly which pieces were made available in trade possibilities, it was reported Hughes may have been available along with another piece, some rumors said Melky Cabrera. The Red Sox had Lester, Bucholz and Masterson along with another piece, possibly Lowrie. But with Hunter still in the fold, there was no desperation for a CF, allowing the Twins to aquire a top pitcher in the return. Simply for the sake of arguement, since he's been tied to the Twins before, and since we now have him, let's just pick Hughes as the pitcher acquired. Looking to replace Hunter's bat, the Twins also traded Garza and Bartlett to the Rays for Delmon Young. This trade would have been completely unnecessary with Hunter still with the Twins. The Twins 2008 rotation would have, thusly, included Garza, Hughes, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins, as well as Bonser and Livan Hernandez, who probably wouldn't have been signed at all. 2009 would have included Garza, Hughes, Baker, Blackburn, Slowey, Liriano, Perkins, Swarzak and Pavano. Now, it's true Pavano was acquired during the season as injuries limited Slowey. And with the presence of Garza and Hughes, it's possible the trade doesn't take place. But then again, Perkins hadn't established himself yet, Slowey was hurt, and Pavano came cheap. 2010, a 94 win team, our last good season, won with a rotation of Pavano, Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, and Duensing making 13 starts. Now put Garza and Hughes in that rotation with Duensing and someone else in the bullpen. And Hunter and Barlett would still be strong and viable position players. 2011 was an injury cluster mess from top to bottom. No way to fix all of that mess. But unless Hunter and Barlett were also bitten by the bug, there would been no Nishioka snafu, production from Hunter and Barlett, and Hughes and Garza would have still been part of a solid rotation overall. Not saying the Twins would have won anything, the injury bug was severe, but the bleeding might have been less. By 2012, at the latest, Hunter would have moved to a corner position, but would still be highly productive, the FA money on Willingham would not have to have been spent, unless we were simply acquiring another bat to platoon and DH, and SS would still be solid with Barlett for one more season. And the SP would still be much better with Garza and Hughes helping anchor. We had Span and Revere now up and making a difference. Again, I don't know if the Twins could have achieved a winning record or not, but again, the bleeding would have been less severe. 2012 also brought about the second worse loss for the Twins over the past few seasons; the FA loss of Michael Cuddyer. He is no star, and never has been. But he is a very good, and very productive ML player, who also brings class and leadership. Something Hunter is also known for. Recent comments from Colorado have been very strong in regarding re-signing Cuddyer, not only for his production, but for his leadership and example. Perhaps the Twins simply couldn't afford to keep Cuddyer. But then again, with all I've laid out above, there would be at least slightly better seasons the last three, possibly better attendance and gate receipts as a result, stronger contention, and no 7M for Willingham which would help offset keeping Cuddyer. Now, I'm not going to excuse the Twins for mostly blowing the CF situation in 2012 and 2013 after the Span and Revere trades, trades in endorse highly! But imagine a decent alternative for CF, or even Fuld and a healthy Santana, with Hunter and Cuddyer and Arcia in the corners, Plouffe, Dozier, Escobar, Nunez, Suzuki, a healthy Mauer, Garza in the rotation with an eventually healthy Nolasco. I am not even going to play the unfair card of the Twins best 2 players in the past 10 years both suffering a contact injury, concussions, in what is generally a non-contact sport. (OMG, but what if the Twins just decided to keep or re-sign Morneau on a make good contract) I remind everyone, this article is really just for fun. I think everything stated has basis in fact, and very easy logic and plausibility. It is in no way a negativity toward Ryan or Bill Smith. But that being said, I truly believe there was an unfortunate tipping point 6 years ago that truly has had an impact on the Twins current and recent past situation.

Yes to Burton. Sorry about that.

Plouffe will still be at 3B for next season. The first half at least. I would gladly welcome Cuddyer back for a fair 1 year or 1 year with option. The 2015 team will need a proven vet, or two, in the heart of the lineup to help the team produce, hopefully win, to help the kids learn how to win, and conversely, provide professional examples. Who better than Cuddy if he has something left, which it appears he does.

Dozier isn't going anywhere. He's only in his second season and is not only a potential gold glove contender, but he ranks amongst the league leaders in OB, SB's and R's. Oh, he's also a legit power threat from 2B. OK, he's slumped a bit lately, but this happens. He's also started all but what, one or two games all season? And, of course, no-one is pitching around him with both Santana and Mauer both down. Why would you? The BA will come around. But it's also not a be all, end all stat of production. And maybe Rosario or Polanco could end up even better. Great! But they aren't now. If someone needs a RH power hitter, Willingham might be a quality trade prospect. I think there is little doubt Correia, unless he collapses, will have decent value to a team needing that extra, solid pitcher for depth. Nobody is paying attention, but Buxton is performing very well as of late. He may also have value to a contending team. Thats about it. Im hoping we can aquire a fairly decent CF player buried on another team who needs a breath of fresh air. I doubt Morales has great trade value at this point, maybe late, but might just stick it out with us, with an attempt to re-sign. For the first time in a long time, I'm actually looking forward to September, if not before, where we all get to see some amazing young talents audition.

Love May and Meyer! Think they both have a chance to be long term fixtures for the Twins. But...they've proven themselves at AAA? I love the idea, but I just don't see it. Meyer has been absolutely outstanding at times, but also inconsistent. May has actually performed better, but like Meyer, is in his very first half season of AAA and is temporarily injured.

No matter what, they would have had to make a move to bring Meyer up by adding him to the 40 man. Not going to disagree with you Smurf, in theory. I also want to see May and Meyer both up, and part of our future. But a few points for consideration, if you will: 1) Before his late season injury, Deduno was looking awfully good. And he had a good enough ST that some were wondering why he was in the pen instead of the rotation? So when Pelfrey went down, we should have promoted a talented kid in the first month plus of AAA over Deduno at that point? 2) Later, seemed like May was ready. He was targeted for the futures game, plus another start or two before, THEN Nolasco was put on the DL. But May was put on the DL before Nolasco with his tight/sore calf. 3) Granted, we can talk at length about Meyer and limits. But the one thing we can't debate is a shortened 2013. Right or wrong, the Twins view him as a special talent who had a setback, and who they want to bring along this season without overtaxing his arm and shoulder after a short 2013 season. No expert on his rehab or the Twins plan for him this season. Just stating the obvious. We we still have almost a half season to play. And there are several scenarios that can and will stay play out. I believe we'll see May soon. Meyer I'm not as sure about. But I think Pino and Johnson were based on, "what can we do NOW".

Exactly! If he is what I think he is, what a lot of us believe he is, he'll be pushing for Rochester by the all star break.

I like your thoughts. Yes, a few more years until the Twins prospects change, pun intended, but I maintain we're seeing the transformation begin this season, with the young players already mentioned, and those that should be ready soon. But slightly off topic, and yet still very much on target with the sentiment of this thread, I'm looking not only at the second half of this season, but also to 2015. Here is the situation I think our Twins find themselves: improving, working in talented youngsters, competitive, but not ready for prime time competition yet. There are some that seem to have the belief we should throw caution to the wind, cut and trade, if you can, almost every 30 y.o. veteran, promote every young player in the field at Rochester and New Britain, pitcher and position player, and just run with it, let them learn at the ML level, and be damned. But I think this is naive and self-defeating. Can we really expect Sano, Buxton, May, Meyer, Rosario, Pinto, etc, etc to just be plugged in April 2015 and expect anything more than losing? Some would say we've already done that, and this would be a new approach to losing that will build a team. I would argue the Twins are already getting better, already implementing a youth movement that will only increase the second half of this season, and during the duration of 2015. But I believe the Twins are also doing what they should, trying to win, trying to put the best product on the field they can, (despite a couple major personnel blunders), and promoting a better/winning/competitive team for the fans, the kids coming up to join a solid program, and for the future. Past experience and and logic would dictate the Twins are not going to trade, or simply release, 6-7 players at once. We have potential holes at CF, LF and DH next season, as well as at least 1 potentially key relief positions. Do we sign, or possibly trade for, a couple of decent, solid veterans for a year or two to fill these positions? Or do we really just turn to the kids? And if it's the kids, still with almost a half season to play and see what develops, tell me who you really and truly project to fill these roles? I'd love to hear the thoughts.

Is there a "die-hard" clause in the requirements I missed? "If you were actually alive the last time the Twins...."