DocBauer

Wait....what happened to DOS?

20 years old and already in AA facing lineups that sit, generally, at ages 22 on the low side to 27 on the high. Only one start, probably excited and nervous, might not have even slept last night, and still wasn't shelled. Honestly, I was expecting something like this for his first start, possibly hit harder even. Seth, can't wait to hear what you have to share from Lucas. My prediction? A couple more rough or so-so starts followed by some real good ones that will make people wonder if he goes back to AA to start 2015, probably, whether he jumps straight to AAA, probably not, and speculation how long he'll be in AA before promotion if not.

The idea of Meyer not pitching in the majors this season is disappointing for sure. Not entirely unexpected, but disappointing. We may not be happy about it, but his shoulder issue last season, the missed time, then pitching in the AFL, just skews what should have been his normal development cycle. When the season began, we all knew there were going to be some limitations on his pitch counts and IP this season. Not to baby or coddle, but simply to work and develop him without doing anything to strain or re-injure anything. Universally, not just a Twins philosophy, there are accepted parameters in baseball for young arms to increase their workload each season in an effort to build strength and endurance. (I'm not recalling the percentage numbers at this point) I think the Twins are handling this the right way. Stretch the kid out, build him up, but overtax him based on last season's availability. Personally, I disagree with the: "he's talented and pitching well in his first shot of AAA so bring him up now" idea. Of course I want him up. At least for a taste of ML and Target Field. I don't understand all of the 40 man and option parameters. Thanks to everyone for their attempts at clarification attempts here, though I'm still somewhat confused. Lol Since he has to be added to the 40 man after this season anyway, if it doesn't mess with his service time, I'd really push for a September call up. Even if he wouldn't be ready to win a job outright coming out of ST next year, I think the exposure at the end of this season could be invaluable in his building for 2015.

I will politely disagree. Even with the rest of the season still to come, and final record a mystery yet to be uncovered, the Twins, even as constructed now, are far more competitive than they have been the past three seasons. And possible fixes and fixtures such as Dozier, Santana, Plouffe, Hughes, Gibson, Arcia, and even Nolasco once healthy again could and should be part of the rebuild the next few seasons. Hicks could still be a part of the equation, as can be Nunez and Escobar. We've also seen some of what Pinto might do/become last season and the begining of this season. Ive always enjoyed drafts, recruiting season, and the Twins minor leagues. I find the "what if" factor very enjoyable. And it's easy to get wrapped up in all the talented youngsters on their way up for our beloved Twins. And it's hard not to get impatient at times for their arrival. Hard to temper enthusiasm. But even with the setbacks to Buxton and Sano this season, and the missed early season by Rosario, the Twins minor leagues have so many success stories going on this season that. I just couldn't even begin to list them all. Look beyond impatience for a moment, and just drink in what May and Meyer have done thus far in only their first AAA seasons. Berrios just might be something special, which I've thought almost since day one. In addition to Santana's play, Polanco is having another outstanding season. He's hit even better since his cup of coffee with the Twins, and should be in AA soon. Vargas seems to have all the makings of a true impact bat. Walker is probably a little farther away, but is still performing and filled with talent. All of these kids, and a few more I'm not even mentioning, should all be either up with the Twins to begin the next season, or in AAA, with a couple in AA...not far away...and possible mid-season promotions who might see time at Target Field before the season is done. And we're talking top 20 talent here, not just solid gamers. And none of the names I've mentioned even include guys like Stewart, or Gordon, or several other high and lower A players having excellent showings. The next couple of years should be really fun!

I love this stuff. It's like scribbling on napkins, but now I get to toss it out there for everyone to see. LOL C= Suzuki (stays) Herrmann. (Let's Pinto play daily until September) 1B=Mauer 2B=Dozier SS=Escobar...mostly 3B=Plouffe Ut=Nunez RF=Arcia CF=Santana (also at SS) and Fuld LF=Parmelee Rest=Colabello and Morales (strong hunches) SP=Hughes SP=Nolasco (healthy again) SP=Gibson SP=May (I think it's time and real) SP=Pino (Deduno? Pino is the new Deduno until September barring injury?) RP=Perkins RP=Fien (foolish to trade him) RP=Duensing (sorry haters, but he's solid) RP=Thielbar (talented, will get better, part of the future) RP=Swarzak (somewhat down this year, but a solid fixture) RP=Deduno (Pino?) RP=Burton or Guerrier (don't see both unless something happens with Pino, Deduno or injury) A trade could bring back a ML ready OF. Correia, Willingham are traded, possibly Burton. I think Suzuki and Morales stay. September brings up Pinto, Meyer for a taste out of the pen, Tonkin, Achter, Darnell and Johnson.

Thus far, Nolasco's injury is aggravating but not serious. Great news! And explains his poor performance thus far. This gives a 3 SP lock of Nolasco, Hughes and Gibson next season. Two spots to fill, just as we were when this thread began. Comments made, spurred somewhat by myself, about a possible FA signing or trade next season. Speculation about the kids, Pelfrey, and also's such as Pino and Deduno. For a moment, just assume we all get what we want and hope, and May is up soon. He may not set the world on fire, he may not be perfect, but the talent and potential show. He's solid, not on a pitch count like Meyer is, and shows at least enough to believe he can and should be part of the rotation plans for 2015. No matter how much we love Berrios, it's a huge stretch to believe he'll be ready for anything more than a mid-season call up. Could Meyer, even with pitch and innings limits do a Gibson and crack the rotation next season? All things being said and speculated, are we content to have a wide open audition for the 5th spot? In the long run, is that better than a trade or signing?

Point well taken! Then again, Colabello and Parmelee are already up. Unless you you bring up Hicks or Polanco again, I guess Herrmann is the choice...unless you make a roster move of some sort. I guess the Twins didn't want to feel forced in to doing that for a week's worth of games at this point. Someone mentioned trade. I will maintain I think if a Hammer or Correia takes place any time soon, a solid CF role player should be at the top of the list. Someone better than Presley. Someone who actually has a chance of helping us next season as well, as we fill in, mix and match, audition Rosario possibly, Hicks again maybe, while waiting for Buxton. Sorry....rambling.

I'm actually glad to hear about Nolasco's injury. Not only because it appears to be relatively minor at this point, but I like a mild injury a heck of a lot better than signing a veteran pitcher to a record contract that doesn't fit it or just suddenly loses it. Still, if he had come forward sooner, I wonder if his rest and rehab might have been shorter and easier.

This is a temporary move only until after the all star break. Probably why they went this route, short term, least disruptive in the short term, only one start to fill in for. Im a Herrmann fan and believer, no secret there. I think he will ultimately be a very solid C for us and multi position fill in with a decent bat. But it's true that he and Fryer don't need to be up at the same time. Again, it's only a short term move. But I'm still disappointed. Herrmann needs to continue to do what he's doing...playing and having success, not be jerked up to sit on the bench yet again. Isnt there SOME MOVE that we could make that makes sense to give someone like Romero a shot? And yes, Herrmann can and has played some CF. He's actually a pretty good athlete who played some CF in college, and also for the Twins when he was in A ball. Now, whether that makes him a better option than Parmelee if Fuld can't go I don't know.

I completely appreciate every thought and sentiment from the original article. I do feel some of the commentary and speculation arises from simple frustration. I also greatly appreciate the even-handed ness in these follow up opinions. Thank you John for setting the tone. Echoing what's already been said, in any sport, whether the rough and tumble world of weekly football, or the longer, less physical, but very grueling sports such as basketball and baseball, nobody is ever 100% healthy after a point. And I concur with Gardy's initial comments. Of course, if one wishes, they can be taken out of context and blow up. But every bump and soreness is indeed not an injury, and shouldn't preclude mass concern from a coach/manager. And Gardy, like Kelly before him, likes to give days off to guys, likes to use his whole roster, in order to keep everyone sharp, involved, and as healthy as possible over the course of a season. In fact, I have often heard him in pre-games even comment about giving guys days off due to soreness and the such to keep them fresh. I certainly hope Nolasco's soreness is not a precursor to something more serious! But I am pleased in a bizarre way to hear of his injury. It helps explain his poor start this season vs spending big money on a FA SP who just loses his stuff, or command, or who just doesn't fit with a team or league. That being said, Nolasco did have a responsibility for saying something sooner. There is a difference from playing not 100%, and playing injured. We often attack athletes, at different times and for different reasons, for the tremendous money they make, and making excuses for poor play, or poor decisions. But despite the money involved, at the end of the day, almost every high level athlete, pro or college, is a competitor. And not being out there kills, and they will do most anything to avoid sitting. Twins, Vikings, Cornhuskers, even teams I am not a fan of, I have heard countless reports of players who tried to play through injuries, tried to hide said injuries, and only came fully truthful when it finally became blatantly obvious. So this is no Twins issue, just part of the culture of sports and competitors. I never played above a high school level, but have known college athletes who will echo this sentiment universally. Even waaaaaay back when in my HS days, I participated hurt, and was reluctant to tell a coach or trainer if hurting. I even had a teammate confide in me once not to tell the coaches he had been hit so hard that he suddenly forgot the score, the play book, and the first half. Now, despite his imploring not to tell anyone, I had to protect my teammate so I did inform someone. Now, there is a huge chasm from high school football to pro athletics, but I think the thought process of the competitive athlete permeates all levels. Im not angry at Nolasco, wish him the best, hope he will be OK, and will kick butt for the next 3 1/2 years for the Twins. But really, he should have said something sooner.

I'm actually kind of surprised by this. He's a special talent, so by all means do whatever is necessary to bring him back to full health and confidence, even if that means a slower than wished for rehab. I just thought for sure he'd get some late season game action as a DH solely, just to get some timing back and game experience. Let's assume the rehab goes as planned, everything is fine, there are no set backs that could slow his progress. And while there may be rust, and full strength in his very strong arm may take a little while to return 100%, where does he target to open next season? Personally, while the results and overall play and production were very positive at New Britain last season, I don't think we can say he mastered the level yet. I know BA alone isn't a sole qualifier by itself, and he didn't have a healthy ST to show how ready he might have been to try out AAA, but I was initially expecting a return to AA for a month or so before promotion. Even with a strong rehab, with time missed, does he now begin 2015 at Ft Myers? Does he drop all the way to CR to work on timing for a few weeks, then FTM, before a mid-ish season promotion again? Purely speculation at this point, of course.

I also don't worry about errors for milb prospects at the various infield positions. As Seth pointed out, no matter how nice the facilities may be, or not be, at certain parks, they aren't the quality of a ML park. They are also learning nuances of the game at a higher and faster level. And the 1B they are throwing to are also learning at this stage as well. Even the best 1B have to work on foot positioning and digs and the speed of the game. What is most telling to me is not only fewer errors as they climb the ladder, but take Sano the past year or so, or even Polanco this season, you want to see the errors in the early part of the season, and decreasing as the season goes along. It indicates comfort levels, mechanical smoothness, adjustment to the speed of the game, and even more confidence.

Buxton and Sano healthy enough to play and/or do ANYTHING productive might not only be the highlights of the Twins milb season, despite some outstanding stories, but maybe the highlights of the entire season overall.

Love Herrmann, want him to actually stick in AAA for a time so he can get consistent play. Believe he will find real value eventually as a solid bat bench with versatility. Romero may never turn out, but it's a real shame he didn't get at least a brief shot when Plouffe went down. That was a mistake. Might have the potential as a useful bench player eventually. Vargas and Polanco are future fixtures. Turner and Garver just might give us a tremendous pair of future C's. Along with Pinto and Herrmann? LOVE the future of the C position a year or two from now. Does Hanson have a future as a multi-positional utility guy? Maybe. But Christianson is a kid I'd put money on. He could be a legit 6 position utility guy who could hit and run some. Some nice names on this list.

I like the optimism. It rivals even mine! Lol The Twins will not contend. But they can contend for .500. And it's not really that outlandish. Nolasco stays in the rotation, but remembers who he is and what he can do. This, along with Hughes and Gibson, gives us a very solid 1-3. May will be up. He will struggle. But he will also be very good. Correia will be traded unless the Twins are offered nothing. That leaves the best case scenario of Pino, Deduno, Meyer, Darnell and Johnson until September when they may all be available in one form or another. A 6 man rotation maybe? Santana and Mauer both come off the DL and hit like they did before injury. Escobar keeps it up, mostly, as does Plouffe. Yes, Nunez should get shots. He seems to like being out of NY. Arcia is streaky, but mostly good streaky. Morales settles in and the Twins keep him. Willingham and Morales both traded, can't fill the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation with anyone who can give you a realistic shot, and .500 doesn't happen.

Always been a Neshak fan. Always hoped for the best for him. I think it's hard for any of us, as fans, to ultimately know what truly happened/went on with Neshak and a whole series of injuries Twins players went through that had mystery attached. It seems that nightmare may be over, but you have to wonder at times what truly happened, and what might have been. I sure wish Neshak was still a healthy and productive part of the team.

Love it! But only happens if we find a good fit elsewhere for Nolasco, picking up some of his contract, and are content with a AA prospect, or high A, and a bag of balls tossed in.

You know, something like this has crossed my mind. I don't believe Nolasco is going anywhere at the moment. And I hope he doesn't. That would mean he's having an off year, figures things out, and still proves to be a solid investment. But if not, he wouldn't be the first or last SP to just not be a fit, for whatever reason, and be moved elsewhere, probably with the Twins picking up at least some of his contract. At least in theory. Again, I'd rather eat Pelfrey's contract and see Nolasco pitch up to his career norms, if not better. After all, he's in a fairly friendly home pitchers ballpark. But there is part of me that thinks the Twins might just make one bold move for the rotation again this offseason. Yes, we have some CF, LF, DH concerns to also address! But, let's just say we re-sign Morales to a year long deal or two, no longer prorated. And we sign ourselves a solid producing LF, and a decent stop-gap CF/4th, all of that could be accomplished with what we are already spending plus the expiring contacts of Correia and Willinham, which is about 13M. Do our finances then allow one big move? Possibly, especially if we can find a fit for Nolasco. Though, again, I believe Nolasco stays and hopefully finds himself.

Cool thread. Lots of opinions that are well stated. Lots of opinions that I completely respect! And now, as someone has probably groaned, "here comes that long winded guy on his soapbox!" LOL But here goes! Owner for a day...I fire nobody. I will, however, accept any resignations if necessary, though I'd probably like them effective at the end of the season. I'm going to talk out of both sides of my mouth here, but with purpose. I know this thread has it's roots in the Worley thread previously. So I have to start there. First, let's see what happens with Worley long term vs his sudden and limited good fortune. Second, the Twins worked with Worley at length, gave him multiple opportunities, he has allowed for work with the Twins, admitted to being out of shape, got hurt, blamed the wind, etc. Worley seemed like a solid addition initially, though let's be clear, May was the big acquisition in the deal. Sometimes, things just don't work out, no matter the team or player. If Anderson truly blew it on Worley, then the Yankees blowing it on Hughes should have someone tarred and feathered. Same with Pavano a few years ago. There have been pitchers the Twins have allowed to walk that had success elsewhere, AFTER having success here but the Twins couldn't afford to keep. (Mostly pre-Target field) But other than Lohse, there really isn't anyone who's career got better after leaving. And even he took a couple teams and years to get there. Starters and relievers, the Twins have had luck finding and working with other teams's cast offs themselves. So to say Anderson should be fired because Worley suddenly found something is, to me, irresponsible. I am not absolving Anderson of making mistakes here and there, or Gardy, or Ryan. And I am not blindly defending anyone, or stubbornly refusing the idea of any changes. But I think perspective has to be maintained amidst the loud voice of frustration. Have I always agreed with Gardy, or Anderson, on everything? No. But again, some perspective. From Gardy's and Anderson's first year in charge, 2002, through 2010, they, and their staff, lead the Twins through EIGHT winning seasons and ONE losing season. They finished in FIRST SIX TIMES, second once, and third twice, which includes that single losing season. They averaged 89 wins per season during that 9 year run. I didn't take the time to research the history if the Minnesota Twins, but I believe that run has to be the best in the history of the franchise or pretty close. Ryan was also the head man for this run. Now, reflect a moment on the 2010 season in which we finished 1st with 94 wins. Other than the awful, nightmarish Nishioka experiment, and Hudson also gone along with Hardy, the only real changes on that team was a partial rebuild of the bullpen where Rauch, Crain and Guerrier were replaced. Now, it could be argued those 5 players made a big difference in the begining of our past 3 year massive losing streak. And yet, the majority of that 1st place, 94 win team was back. Injuries played a HUGE part in the vastly disappointing 2011 season to be sure. And there were a couple, at least in retrospect, decisions that now seem highly questionable. But again, nobody saw the collapse of 2011 coming. Honestly, I almost give the Twins staff a wash on that year. Ryan, he was the architect for that great 9 year run. Less we forget, in his early days, he made a few poor trades and questionable moves before seeming to "figure it out". Before Santana rule 5 draft/trade fleecing, (unknown at the time), and the AJ-P trade to the Giants for Bonser, Liriano and Nathan, there was the likes of Erickson to the Orioles for Klingenbeck. Ugh! I also don't blame Bill Smith for the past few seasons. He blew some things, true. But he did help oversee the re-birth of the minor league system. He might not be directly in charge of such things at the time, but his people were. And he did have responsibility for the finances to make some of the moves happen. And while some contract extensions he gave turned out to be mistakes, Nishioka was a nightmare, and the Young trade turned sour, he was applauded at the time for trying to think out of the box, keep talent at home, and for being aggressive bringing in one of the top ranked young hitters in all of baseball. Funny how accolades can turn to boos and bad remembrance so easily. Again, perspective. Now, the past two seasons. And this is what I would sit down and speak at length with Ryan about, Gardy as well. There are no quick fixes, in any team sport. And everyone loves the taltalizing prospect of, well, prospects. But not all prospects turn out. Those that do also need time. Talent, need and want doesn't make a young prospect reach a level of success sooner. (Generally at least) But I would voice real concerns about letting Cuddyer go, for his production as well as leadership and experience. I would question the yo-yo-ing of a couple prospects. And I would question, with huge respect to the work he's done in the past, as to whether he can adapt to the new financial world of the Twins in Target field. In other words, I don't want him being irresponsible with money, we will NEVER be the Yankees, Dodgers, Red Sox, Angels, etc. But we are also no longer the little Metrodome team who could. And I'd want some serious answers as to the botching of CF the past two seasons as well as an almost botching of SS, which seems to have been rescued. For those who slam the Twins seeming "good old boy network", I'd say cool your jets. Ryan, highly respected and competent, at the very least until recently, and Gardy/Anderson, and the majority of Twins coaches, are part of that network. And it was these men, and other front office staff, that brought us that outstanding nine year run, a new stadium that is debatedly the best in baseball, one of the best milb systems in all of baseball, strong affiliations, and one of the best ST-milb complexes in all of baseball. A couple former Twins have found quality success at the ML and milb level as managers and coaches, and we may have a pair of future ML managers in our system now as well. All of this being said, I am NOT OPPOSED to change. I'd want Ryan's answers to my questions, and then I'd want to know how he feels overall physically, mentally and emotionally, what his plans and thoughts are, and how long he wants to do this. Despite quality people doing things the "Twins Way", I'd like to bring in an assistant, possible successor, from outside the organization to provide new blood, new ideas, and a different perspective. I'd like to think Oakland, Tampa and St Louis might have a quality candidate for this role. Next, while I have tremendous respect for both Vavra and Ullger, who are not only good company men, but have a proven track record of being good and successful baseball men as coaches and managers, I would see one of them re-assigned elsewhere in the organization to bring in a quality Latin coach to better relate and work with the young Latin players currently on the roster, and on their way up. And in the last few hours of my one day ownership, before midnight when my limo turned in to a Kia...err...a pumpkin, I'd want to know two very important things. 1) Whether by trade or just walking away at the end of this season, what are your honest thoughts/plans to address CF, LF, DH and Set-up next season, since those seem to be the biggest potential holes, and...2) How do you honestly project the young players knocking on the door for the rotation, bullpen, and to a somewhat lesser extent, the lineup for the rest of the season projecting to next season. Now...if I don't hear some solid, well thought out answers, I might encourage those season ending resignations.

Apologies for some butchering in past couple or posts. Typing from my smart phone and its not as smart as its supposed to be. Yes, Sano was moved to 3B, but from SS if you remember. This is not an OF, 1B or C trying to be forced to the hot corner, but an athletic big man who outgrew his previous position. No stats, but I bet you'd find a large number of 3B are converts to the position. Despite some error problems, which always have to be taken with doses of salt, particularly in the lower minors, reports are of good work ethic, strong arm, hands and positioning getting better all the time. In fact, I have yet to read a single report that says he cant play at least OK at 3B. At least initially. Yes, we could have more depth. Which is why I oppose moving Harrison off 3B so early. But with Plouffe and Sano, 3B should be solid for the next few years. Goodrum and Miner have a shot to do something in the lower levels.It wouldn't hurt to find a solid/top prospect in the next draft however. But on the trade front, not needed.

Forget shaking off rust in general, pure arm strength might take a little time to come back fully. But if reports in his arm strength are accurate, losing a bit, short term or not, shouldn't preclude his still being a quality 3B. Romero is no Sano but should have gotten a shot a few weeks ago. Still think its way too early to move Harrison off 3B andI have a problem with that move. Goodrum, I believe, should still be looked at at SS, but I have to say he could be an interesting option at 3B. I doubt he'd ever develop real power, but if he can fill out his frame more, he has the potential for decent XB power with some HR projection to go along with speed and defense.

Yes, Herrmann is definitely being Partnered. Now, how good Herrmann can ultimately be is debatable.And BA may be fan's bible, but their opinion is not gospel. Still, they have thought enough of him to vote him top defensive C in the system. I like the hitting potential. Just needs to play. Yes, I suppose you could say that Buxton is the lone egg in the C.F. basket at this time, but it's a beck of a basket! Not worried about him, just frustrated at his development slowing injury this season. I just don't think you can count on him for 2015, at least not early or for the bulk of the year. Rosario has also been slowed, but could yet be an option for 2015 before moving to LF. Hicks? Not banking on him at this point. Santana? Maybe. The physical tools are there. Maybe a short term or fill in option. FA or trade, we need a decent short term option.

Agreed, though I think a spot-long-mid man is more to his capabilities vs simply mop-up. Especially if he can start an inning vs combining in in the middle. Could pressure Swarzak, or, if Swarzak can hop on his 2013 wagon, he might be capable of more 7th inning plus appearances.

I think after last season, the majority of fans were hoping he'd fully recover from his procedure and be the same electric, and mostly consistent SP this year we saw in 2013. For whatever reason(s) he just hasn't been that guy. And when you need top quality SP, have some top prospects so close, and have endured 3 straight disappointing seasons, with some awful pitching and a glut of AAAA fill in types, it's easy to pull the rip cord on a guy like Deduno at this point. He was a good story while it lasted, and Pino is sort of the new Deduno at the moment. Now, if Deduno suddenly got another shot, pitched 6 quality innings each time out! occassionaly 7, and looked like the guy he was last season, the love and optimism would return somewhat. Certainly it would give the team another option. But at this time, the May and Meyer train is quickly approaching the Target Field Depot.

At the risk of repeating myself from the previous thread, I'm with Thrylos on organizational C depth. The best are a season or two away at least, but I really like the options available. Also repeating myself, I still like Herrman a lot as well. And I think others would like him better as well, were he allowed to just play for a while instead of getting jerked up and down so much between the majors and AAA the past two years. Big believer in a corner OF to replace Willingham, but that will almost assuredly be from FA as nobody really on the block could bring us much in this area unless we included a nice prospect or top prospect, and I'm not ready to do that. BUT, while I can't name names, I wonder if there is a solid CF option out there stuck behind someone else on the bench, or stuck in AAA just waiting for that next opportunity. Sort of, someone else's version of Hicks for example. While waiting for Buxton, slowed this year in his development time, we need another option for 2015 at least, with the possible competition of Rosario, Hicks and even Santana as possibles, who could make a nice 4th OF if/when someone else takes the job away. Right now, if we find trade value, that's what I'd be looking for.