DocBauer

This pretty well sums it up I think. And even with these numbers, he was showing improvement and flashes before being moved to the bullpen. As requested, not going to linger in the past, but I have to wonder how solid he'd be in the rotation this year, if Pelfrey had been moved to the pen instead, and he had been allowed to gain additional seasoning in the rotation. You absolutely can't count on Hughes for next season. Santana may be traded. If that happens, the Twins may have to sign or trade for another veteran to fill the rotation as I'd still get rid of Nolasco any way possible. In no particular order: Santana or another veteran Gibson Duffey Berrios May Wheeler is next in line at this point. Dean might still be a fill in option. And I know it sounds like a broken record...but...if Meyer can finish the season at Rochester in the rotation....

Just want to say I am NOT a Mauer basher and never have been. I even have a Mauer jersey, which I gave admitted to before. And this season is not over yet to be sure. Buy as I stated before the season started, if this indeed turns out to be a 3rd straight year of decline for Joe...despite his competitive nature...I really wish he would decide to be a family man and retire with some sort of by out from the Twins. At some point, simply not being able to perform has to wear on him doesn't it?

Agreed on Berios up and Shaggy after the Futures Game. But for the love of all that is holy...how can a team with such aweful starting pitching keep May in the bullpen? Stretch him out for goodness sake and roll with it and see what you have once and for all! Am I missing something here? PS: the Milb report is my favorite part as well. Really appreciate all the hard work!

All of the points in the article are spot on! I think we all can agree on that. Of course, other points I think we can all agree on is getting rid of both Nolasco, Jepsen and Plouffe...however it takes place. And Berrios and Polanco need to get up here and soon! Again, I think we all can agree on this. Once again, Dozier is an interesting topic. Whether traded now, or after the season, he could bring some actual value. I don't feel the Twins HAVE to trade him, but they should definately listen to offers. I'm now leaning to keeping him for the remainder of the season, play Polanco on a regular basis, and then decide the best course of action in the offseason. I also think you listen for E Santana and move him if a nice option comes along to do so. But I'm in no hurry to move him. At this point, Hughes is a complete unknown from stuff, to health, to role, and can't be counted on for anything at this point. He's also untradable. I think it is FAIRLY safe to pencil Duffy, Gibson and Berrios to next season'starts rotation. If Santana is gone, don't we end up needing another veteran to replace him?

I can't fault Molitor for trying to win. Where I fault him...if it was his call...was the handling of Meyer, Polanco and Kepler earlier in the year. Honestly, I didn't think the article said a whole lot, which is disappointing. At least from the TR point of view. Still seems like no plan in place, though the kids are playing more, and the shift of Sano is big. Whether it is pride, stubborness, competitive instinct or something else, where Ryan has frustrated me the most is refusing to give in to losing and a rebuild. I know you need to march guys out to play and fill up your roster, but he's been so stubborn to engage said rebuild and just acquire midline vet after midline vet to put a team out there that he hopes can compete and finish .500 or so. It hasn't worked. Go with youngsters now. Dump vets that aren't a part of the future and quit signing them...in most cases. Admit the rebuild.

Dozier, echoing most of all up us, is a tough call. No matter the fact the Twins created this problem of he and Polanco, it's still a tough call. I asked in another thread, can they co-exist on the same team? And I dont have the answer. Of course, what I mean is, if Dozier is a 2B, and Polanco is a talented young 2B, can you really keep both and use Polanco as a utility guy? If you trade Dozier, I keep Nunez. If your plan, for now at least, is to keep Dozier than I'd look at moving Nunez. Either way, Polanco is up to play and see what we have. Someone has to go. Do we keep Dozier and possibly trade him during the offseason if Polanco shows enough? Maybe THAT is the best course of action. Plouffe....don't care what we get back. Nolasco.....don't care what we get back. Suzuki....don't care what we get back. Jepsen....don't care if traded or released. Of course, when I say I don't care, what I mean is, a grade C or low B milb prospect acquired is not the point. The point is to move on, clean house, make way for the future. What I would like to maybe get back is a prospect with some ability but who hasn't found himself, who has struggled, not met expectation, could maybe use a change of scenery. That might be the best return.

Pretty much right there with you. That last SP slot is hard to call. And I'm still in the came of probably keeping Abad. He shouldn't be very expensive to hold on to and he's solid with a solid history, save the one season. As mentioned, I wonder about a return to the Big screen for Vargas? And unless I get a surprise offer, I'm keeping Nunez. Yes he's playing out of his mind this season, but he's just a solid ballplayer to have around, especially if Plouffe and Dozier are gone.

Dozier has been playing much, much better of late. He's really picked it up the past 30 games, especially the past 15 games. He's even been hitting the other way. Suzuki has been reduced hot the last 30 games, especially for him, especially for the catcher position. Plouffe appears healthy, isn't on fire exactly, but has looked better and is hitting just shy of .270 for the past week. Is this good or bad for the Twins? Playing better baseball and being in games, even winning some, is always good for your favorite team isn't it? A pessemist would tell you that a hot Suzuki, especially if he finishes the season relatively strong, would entice the Twins to extend him for next season. (Can't recall if he has a team option) A pessemist would tell you that instead of trading Dozier, gaining some talent, making room for Polanco and continuing a youth movement, the Twins would be inclined to keep him. (I think it's still debatable as to whether keeping Dozier is a good thing or bad thing). A pessemist would tell you that Plouffe heating up would allow the Twins FO to feel justified by keeping Plouffe around this year, possibly next, because he's a solid player who just had a poor first half. An optomistic Twins fan, who sees Buxton and Kepler playing every day and no talk of sending them down...indeed, there's even been chatter about being sure to keep them doing so in order to maintain their development...and talk about Sano rehabbing at 3B and staying at 3B because that is his natural position and the position the Twins have always seen him ultimately playing, would tell you that these three getting hot is exactly what the Twins need. A hot, and still not very old Dozier, with a contract not hard to handle, could potentially be a prime candidate to trade, possibly packaged, to bring back more help. Polanco, Escobar and even Beresford are all 2B candidates if a quality return could be had for Dozier. To me, it seems almost every season some contending team needs a solid, veteran catcher to provide depth for a stretch run. Zuke is nothing special, but has a great reputation as a teamate, a true professional, and a quality catcher when it comes to working with his staff. I have maintained he would be worth SOMETHING to a team needing help behind the dish. Getting in an offensive groove should do nothing but enhance his trade value, limited though it may be. Despite his rough first half thus far in 2016, Plouffe has been a solid defensive and offensive player the past few years. He can also play some 1B. There seem to be more than a few teams who could use a solid veteran player of his ability and experience to help them the rest of the way. Again, a bat that is heating up can only increase his value. There is a great deal of disapointment, anger and angst in regard to the FO's construction of this team. And a belief that they will do little to nothing to make moves, and move on. "They have no plan!" But there is also some tangible evidence that...while no "plan" has been openly seen or announced...there is indeed a shift to promote and play and stick with younger players now, along with an announced shift of Sano back to 3B permanently, and an anticipated series of milb promotional moves that warm the frozen and disappointed hearts of Twins fans with future possibiities. So pessemist or optomist? Heat brings keeping or moving? Heat means nothing or potentially better returns? What is your take here?

Exciting stuff! Especially Gonsalves. But I agree with Dman, there should be 2 additional Ft Myers SP up in the very near future.

I agree on Wheeler at this point. I'm not totally giving up on Duffey at this point, but yes, he may be better as a RP. All the more reason to stretch out May and get him back in a rotation somewhere!!! I'd rather give Wheeler a shot at this point over Berrios, despite Berrios's stuff and potential. Hes been pitching much better lately, and I'd like to see him continue and stay in a good groove. Maybe mid-July?

I guess it's off topic since it concerns this year and not next year, but I really, really like what the Twins did in the draft this year. Now, only time will tell how the Twins, or anyone else, truly did with their selections, but I thought the approach was smart and much more forward thinking than in years past. There is some pretty darn good pitching in the lower minors, but its lacking a bit in position player talent. (though there are some young Latin kids with ability) So the Twins hit the HS ranks hard with their first few selections. Then, they went hard after some college players with tools, or pitchers with velocity or a wicked pitch instead of just a safe control college pitcher. They also took some real chances on a couple of guys that were later picks than expected due to injury or financial concerns. But they saved money where they could, then overspent slot to get these guys in. Could be a couple really nice steals here. But even if they don't turn out, what a change in philosophy...actually being aggressive and taking a shot on potential instead of the safe!

While how great his value on the market truly is, I believe Plouffe is tradable for something. Or part of a package. There are a few teams that would seem to need help at 1B or 3B. While a hot streak during this down year would make him more attractive, his history indicates he's at least solid and productive overall. Over the next 20-30 days, if not now, his value may grow. I'm not as anxious to trade Dozier, and have said so, but I think you have to strongly considering moving him. Forget cutting salary, it opens a spot for Polanco, and he has the ability, solo or packaged with someone else. Sooner or later you have to make room for Polanco don't you? Doesn't pure baseball logic dictate that you develop a quality prospect and eventually play him? Is another team really going to want him, no matter his overall talent and potential, when they would be FORCED to keep him on their roster? And honestly, can he and Dozier exist on the same roster? You'd obviously have to let Santana go, probably move Escobar or Nunez, and you'd still have Beresford in AAA potentially. But would it make sense to have him linger on the bench, no options, as a utility player? It just seems push has to come to shove.

I've said it before...but...here we go again. Sano's position is 3B. Coming up through the minors, it was reported he worked very hard on his fielding and took pride in his defense and improvement. The only negative reports I ever ready concerning his defense was long term, being a bigger man, that he would/might move to 1B eventually. And that's OK too. Granted, my exposure to watching Sano play 3B is a couple years of ST games, his play there last season, and his limited time there this season. Has he always been perfect? No. Has he made mistakes? Yes. But he has shown time and again he can play the position at least fairly well. And I'd expect him to get better the more he plays it. Forget other teams and other players for a moment and just focus on 2 of the best 3B the Twins ever had, Gaetti and Koski. Gaetti had hands of stone when he first came up, and Koski, himself not a small man, was considered stiff. Both worked hard and became excellent defensive 3B as well as prime offensive players. Current Twin Plouffe also was no wizard at the spot initially. Put him at 3B for his sake, the roster's sake, and the future Twins sake. It's the right move all the way around.

What Stringer said 100%. Can't "like" on my phone, but I definitely agree and "like".

Just to re-state the original intention of the post, there shouldn't be any big time ACE or #1 SP on the market this coming offseason. The original point was to either 1} work with what we have, put the best 5 SP out there, and roll through any and all contenders if someone underperforms...with more options, perhaps better options, available late 2017 and 2018. Or 2} make a bold move for a top of the rotation that was 28-ish, (maybe younger?) even though the team wouldn't contend in 2017, but you'd give up talent to bring in the one "stud" pitcher with the idea he'd help stabilize and lead the staff in 2018 and beyond when the Sano's, Buxton's, Kepler's, Polanco's, Berrios's, Burdi's and Chargois's, etc, would be established with the club.

I don't know if this was touched on the game tnread, (didn't read any of it today), but I caught a couple minutes of the Ryan interview in the car. Mine you, I'm not letting him off the hook by any means, but he commented about Sano hopefully ready to start playing again soon. And when asked about his position, Ryan staTed they were NOT putting him back in the OF. While felt Sano wasn't meant to be out there long term, his position is 3B, he felt he handled it OK. Whatever. But I thought it was interesting that he at least admitted 3B was Sano's spot, though he might DH and even play a little 1B on assignment. He also stated they needed to Kepler in RF and he needed games and AB out there. While he took no responsibility for mistakes, nor admitted there were mistakes made, he at least publicly stated the obvious. Of course, he probably doesn't have a choice at this point, but I still thoughthink his comments were somewhat interesting.

No it doesnt. I read it too. There's a couple things TR says that are right. Not every prospect arrives 100% ready. Or close to. And he's right that sometimes guys go down to work on things and figure things out before they come back up. And the author of the article is correct when he mentions regression helping to create such a poor season...DUH...and mentions some of the injuries. I get it. He's right. So is TR. In so far as he's willing to admit anyway. But poor roster construction, no backup plan for any position, the jerking around of prospects brought up, no definitive plan or course of action is never even hinted at! I have long defended Ryan many times, and for many reasons. I've also called him out at times where and when I thought he was wrong. I've been genuinely impressed with the Twins draft this year, how they managed their picks and agends, and how they've played with their cap space to make it work to their advantage. (Not really sure to what degree TR has had any control over these events) But mistakes and mismanagement have far outweighed past moves and success at this point in time. Unless there are moves made. And a definitive plan of some sort put in place, the time ever for excuses and defense are done. It's simply time for change.

I'm going to partially disagree. Maybe my rose-colored glasses...that I thought I lost or smashed to bits, can't remember now...we're actually on top of my head and slipped down to my nose again, but I don't see this as an impossibility. 1* I'm not convinced Ryan will be running the show next year. Exiting on his own, or making the appearance of such, this traumatic season and 4 out of 5 poor ones, I really think we may be looking at impending changes. Because... 2* Despite knocks against ownership, the Twins brand and reputation is not looking so good these days. Ryan himself, about a month ago, actually made some honest and pointed comments as to ownerships disapproval and his failures, and how it was up to him to try to "convince" ownership he could right things. Except for a reported interview with a pretty sharp 11 yo, which we have to discount don't we, ownership has been, first time I can recall, publicly displeased with what is going on. I like Dozier. He's been one of my favorite players the last few years, and he's also young enough to be part of the rebuild. But then I look at Polanco, who I've been watching as close as Sano and Kepler since their signings, and I just wonder how you CAN'T trade Dozier to make room for him. SS has Escobar and Vargas for the next year or two until Gordon and/or Vielma are ready. And we're OK there. It almost absurd common sense to trade Dozier at this point, or soon.

Agree 100%. From all I've seen and read, I think the Twins drafted some very nice players, and for once, seem to be "playing the game" that other franchises have been ahead in previously. They concentrated early on HS talent for the lower minors where there is pitching, but perhaps less hitting and positional strength. (Despite some young raw Latin players) Next, they went after some interesting and intriguing college talent, while not ignoring HS players with upside. And they are playing a smart and save financial game to save money where they can, overspend where they can to secure players drafted lower than exlected, etc. This is just NOT the same old boring and rote route employed previously. We could actually be grabbing some real steals here.

John, I have seldom, if ever, disagreed with you before, but I'm going to here. (Even though you didn't actually "disagree" with me) ☺ Being 25, in AA, and being a college drafted player...and being a catcher...doesn't speak of being old or late developing to me. The Mauer's and Rodriguez's of the world are pretty rare. I am nothing more than a rank amateur when it comes to evaluating players, but I have yet to read anything negative, only positives, as to his work behind the plate, and his throwing. Thus far, after being drafted in 2013, he has never repeated a level, nor has he even begun a season at his previous level, even for a short time, before being promoted. Positive "rookie" season stats that look good are nice, to be certain, but seldom mean a great deal, overall, in the future development of a player. But Garver's first half season of rookie ball was OK. He raked his second year in 2014. 2015 was again OK, but he started pretty slow and finished his second half much stronger. Thus far, he's enjoying a very solid AA season. While I don't have his full breakdown, from the TD reports, sure seems like he's been picking it up lately. I don't know if he's a second half promotion candidate or not...could be if he keeps things up, and would again allow for a "separation" between he and Turner...but he absolutely seems like a Rochester player in 2017. From there, anything can happen at any point.

howie, I'm not discounting a word you said. And you're right about Ryan, there is so much disappointment, frustration and general vitriol at this point that anything he does is just "wrong". And despite his poor introduction to the Twins and the fan base, Murphy has some talent and ability. He was a pretty high draft choice. He has some tools and ability, and potential, from all scouting reports. But my money is on Garver. He has glowing reports as to his work behind the plate, his throwing, and he's hit everywhere he's been thus far. Yes, he's hit average, and he's hit well. And he's had poor starts, but then always hit better as he adjusts and the season goes on. I think he's our guy.

The best hope here is Milone pitching well and gaining some trade value. Otherwise, the only thing this does is help save the bullpen, but it does nothing to build for 2017 and beyond. Why not Wheeler? Berrios again after he's been pitching better lately?

Don't look now, and he's probably still a year away, but Garver just may be the next solid Twins starting catcher.

Crazy deal for Benninghoff! Pay him like he was healthy and a top pick as previously expected, and then undergo TJ surgery! Sooooo unlike the Twins. I love it!

I know we've been hashing and rehashing what the Twins need to do the rest of 2016 while building for 2017 and the such. But this is a topic that I felt deserved it's own thread. This is in regard to the 2017 rotation. No matter how good they may ultimately turn out, guys like Jay, Gonsalves and Stewart are at least a year away. (Barring a late 2017 appearance) The Twins absolutely need to make some moves, and Nolasco is chief amongst them. I dare say, one way or another, I think most of us believe he will be gone. I'm not even counting on Hughes at this point for any role based on contract, injury, lack of velocity, etc. (We might just find another Perkins situation when looking at his velocity drop and ineffectiveness this season) It would seem to me Santana will be back. (An arm, a veteran presence, plus time left on his contract) Gibson is a given. Berrios SHOULD be a given at some point here. Is Duffey a given? Maybe. We've seen what he CAN do. We've seen glimpses of it this season, though he hasn't been the same player. But again, he's young, has talent, and still hasn't even put in a full season yet. May should also be a logical possibility. Guys like Meyer, Wheeler and Dean are options, though perhaps on the outside looking in, at least initially. But there is still over half a season left in the 2016 season to see how some of these youngsters develop. And if we really want to, we can bitch and moan incessantly about our current FO, or their replacement, etc. But we've done an awful lot of that already. The way I see the 2017 rotation is 1 veteran, 1 young veteran, and a trio of youngsters. Santana is aging, but still better than most of what we've seen this year. We're still not a 100% sure about Gibson's ceiling, and everyone else is still a wait and see. For a team that is getting younger..FINALLY...and may end up even younger the rest of '16 and '17, what direction SHOULD the Twins take in regard to 2017? SHOULD this team run with 5 jokers...wild cards...Santana and the kids? If one of the kids stumbles, send him to Rochester and bring up another. Etc. And by 2018, MAYBE the end of 2017, there could be another 3-6 prospects ready to compete. Remember, we're a rebuilding team now, on a youth movement. OR SHOULD this rebuilding team sacrifice 3-5 quality players/prospects and make a move for a front of the rotation, 28 yo veteran SP? Top of the line SP doesn't come cheap, we all know this. And it would cost us probably 2 of our top SP prospects, a top RP arm, and at least 1 more really quality prospect. Said acquisition wouldn't necessarily have to be an All Star, certified ACE...however you want to quantify or characterise what a true ACE is...but he would definately be a front line, #1 quality pitcher. I don't know that I have an answer. I can see both sides of the debate. I'm asking you for your call on this and your reasoning why, either way.