DocBauer

Not being argumentative nor mean, but look up the numbers. He missed a season to TJ surgery. 2013 was his first season back, and he kinda stunk when promoted to finish the year. As a rookie, probably getting tired, his numbers were still better than Berrios's initial introduction. As I just re-stated in this same thread, look at his first two full years. Then look at the growth and transformation we are seeing. I'd prefer 3 years, but could deal with 4. He's only 30yo. He and Berrios, along with Romero and a couple others, could lead this staff for the next few years. If I'm another team, I'm asking about Gibson. If I'm the Twins, I hang up the phone.

I was a Gibson believer and apologist for a time. But even I began to sour in 2017 at one point. I have said this time and again, but I will repeat myself yet another time. Virtually everyone wanted him up early in 2013 because he was pitching well in the minors despite it being his first season back from TJ surgery. He didn't look good when he came up. In 2014, he had a really solid first full season and missed rookie status by an inning and 1/3. Despite a worse W-L record, his 2015 was better in every category across the board. He stunk in 2016, as did the entire team. And the first half of 2017 was no better, to be sure. The perception of Gibson is NOT based on his 2014 or 2015 seasons, it's based on hope when he was selected and potential/hope to be a front line starter for a pitching starved team. What we are seeing is the maturation of a quality arm who actually pitched well his first couple of seasons, then hit a wall, for whatever reason, and then figured it out. This is no SSS folks. He's been pitching like this since late July last season. I wrote an article about a month ago how Berrios may be the budding ACE of the staff, but how close Gibson was to joining him as a top of the rotation starter. Did you watch the game? I missed most of it. But I caught the last few innings. I was pumped after the first out in the 8th when he asked for the ball to keep going. To trade this guy would be a huge mistake! No matter how good Romero may be...and he could potentially be the Twins 1-3 starter by mid season 2019...Berrios and Gibson are our 1-2 starters to begin 2019. And I feel really good about that!

Best offensive season he has ever had. Late bloomer? We can only hope so! Unfortunately, he may still be a season or more away. That may not be a bad thing, BTW, if your short term doesn't stink.

I mentioned this in my post on Garver the other day. I don't think there is much question that a healthy Castro would have been the primary catcher if healthy. Garver could "break in" as the backup and DH some and learn on the job. And perhaps Molitor has been leaning on Wilson in a similar fashion; letting Garver split time and continue to learn from another veteran. And really, Wilson seems pretty salty behind the plate. But there also comes a time for the youngster...with talent, potential and a future...to have the training wheels removed and be allowed to play and ride with the big kids. Garver's opportunity and time is NOW. He should be catching 70% of the time, or close to it. (He can also DH some, as he did tonight against Boston). Wilson needs to be the backup and erstwhile veteran. Garver actually has a future with the Twins. Wilson does not.

BTW, no rose colored glasses, he wasn't dominate and threw way too many pitches, but the SO were OK, and 1 more IP would have still been a quality start. Yeah, I know, optimistic. Just saying, was better than I expected. Question I have is, another, better start or two, is he trade value with the August waiver wire? Or do you bank on a fully healthy Santana for a 1 year deal for about 7M with incentives for 2019?

THIS. ABSOLUTELY. Some want to like on Castro's poor production before he hit the surgeon's table. But unknown to us, he was playing on a bad knee. I believe all along Garver was supposed to be the backup and learn and be groomed. Suddenly he was thrust in to a role not intended. Wilson was supposed to be the veteran AAA catcher to work with the staff there, and come up for a short stint here and there if necessary. Obviously things haven't worked out that way.

With a dearth of catching in the system, at least anywhere kther than the low levels, I'm all for promotions at that spot! Is Heredia just not catching material? Agree on Ober and Wells 100%. Can't recall if you mentioned Jay in your previous post. Really like to see him challenged the way Stewart was recently via promotion to Rochester.

Love that Enlow is getting stronger as the season moves along. Very nice to see. I hate to cripple E-Town but Jeffers and Williams should definitely get some time at Cedar Rapids. I missed the Helman signing somehow. Thought i had read somewhere he was expected to be a tough sign and might be headed back to school. Glad to see it happened as I thought he was a nice selection.

Tom, going to have to disagree with you somewhat here. This "re-set" for Sano was for his good, and the good of the franchise. The Twins, rather publicly, stated as much and stated it was not a punishment issue. One can only assume they took care and diligence to lay this all out for Sano as well. Now, only those closest to the situation truly understand what has been taking place, what they see daily in this process. What is most important is the future of Sano, for himself, as well as the organization. Despite some rather glowing reports of attitude and weight loss, etc, I have to ask, was this enough time to truly establish what was intended? He took a few days off, which is fine. Personally, I would have brought him right back to Ft Myers for another week or so to get back in to his routine and then promoted him. Of course, none of us are as close to the situation as the organization is. But I have to disagree about "months" to change habits. This was a fairly major challenge, albeit, one he seems to have embraced. Hopefully his dedication going forward is real and honest. Hopefully, the Twins will continue to work with him the rest of the season and the off season. But I would have fully embraced another week upon his return before promotion.

A great day for the system. Couple great starts back to back for Stewart. Do we dare to hope/believe? Jax is starting to look like a legitimate prospect now that he's being allowed to play more than a few games. Really nice to see Watson step up with a big start.

Kirilloff was regarded as possibly the best HS bat in the draft when selected. IIRC, there were even comments made the Twins may have stolen him where selected. He obviously has things to continue to work on, but what he has done, at his age, at 2 levels this season, is very, very impressive. Now factor his production after missing all of 2017! This far, Lewis has proven to be an outstanding selection. He truly looks like a 5 tool talent. From what I have read, a few video clips, and one ST game this year, he absolutely has the athleticism, range and arm for SS. I'm not worried about error totals for such a young infield prospect. He's still learning the position and all the nuances involved, and didn't even play SS full time until his senior year. (I still want to know who the hell was playing SS for his team previously)! Yes, he's still developing and very young. But it seems the only thing holding Graterol back is experience/IP. It is not out of the question that all of Kiriloff, Lewis and Graterol could/should be in AA next season. If not to start, then by mid season.

While I will honestly hate to see him go, I think Dozier is gone as a FA if you hold on to him for the remainder of the season. The move to Boston makes the most sense to me. I like the Hernandez and Swihart and including someone like Duke in the deal. A change of scenery might do Swihart some real good. I still say no on Escobar. I have faith in Sano rebounding and reports seem to indicate he's embracing this "re-set" he's on. And I like Gordon's potential but don't feel he's ready yet. (Though I still say he should come up in September at least since he has to be added to the 40 man anyway). But there are, at least some, lingering concerns regarding Sano and Gordon, even as simple as "when" vs "if". The infield depth in the system is impressive, but also in the low minors. And with Dozier gone, I think trading the valuable and versatile Escobar would be a mistake. You can consider the QO, but an extension makes the most sense. Escobar could start, potentially, at any of 3 spots next season, or, if a few things break right, could be a super-sub who still played almost every day. Toss in an off season FA role player and the infield depth could be outstanding. (As could be the OF with Buxton back, Cave and Wade, but that's a different discussion). But parting with both Dozier AND Escobar is dangerous to me. Somewhere, somehow, we need another catching option rather than count on a fully re-habbed Castro. Get that extra, decent-solid infielder, and replace Morrison with a decent OF/1B/DH type and I still feel good about the team position wise and it's potential production. Let's audition the young arms in Rochester to see what we may really have, rotation and bullpen. We can still look to FA for a pen arm or two.

Great post! And fair as both sides are argued well. With a 40 man roster, there has to be some juggling. You just can't keep everyone, unfortunately. Over the years, the Twins have enjoyed the results and contributions of other players left vulnerable from other teams. It's the nature of the game. You just always hope you are smarter and more lucky than the other guys. I admit I was surprised and disappointed by Rosario. I just had a hunch he would turn out with a little more time. Goodrum is a sore spot for me. I'm not saying he should have been placed on the 40 man. And maybe the Twins offered him a great deal but he just wanted to move on and saw more opportunity with Detroit and Gardenhire. But when I looked at infield depth, Sano coming off such a rough off season, opportunity, his versatility and recent development, I saw a versatile and talented athlete that was ready to become a super utility guy. Boy would I love to have him back! But your premise is right on. Let's not re-hash yet again what has gone wrong. There are other threads for that. This is about what is right. As in, what is right to do now, going forward, for the second half of 2018. How do we know if we have another Hildenberger amongst Bard, Curtiss, Reed and Busentiz if we don't allow for opportunity? Could Slegers prove he's either a 5th SP or a quality swing man unless he gets more than a game or two to show anything? Remember, not so long ago, when All Star and potential ACE Berrios was a disappointment? What if Gonsalves has a rough go first time out? (As Littell has, though he's been put in weird situations to be sure). Mejia showed real potential last season, has torn up AAA before his last start, and IMO, projects as a high quality LHRP at worst. But you have to take a look and challenge guys! Same could be said for Gordon. Flat out, he's still very young. He needs to grow a few more man-muscles. He may not be ready yet. But there is real ability and potential. Since he has to be added to the 40 man anyway, why not a look to learn and drive him? Same for Wade. And for goodness sake, keep playing Cave! You may have found a quality 4th OF who can play and produce. And for goodness sake Part 2, PLAY GARVER! Look, he may never be a great defensive catcher. But he can't learn or improve without playing! He seems to call a good game. He has a strong arm. He has some real offensive potential. Despite various moves to add milb depth and talent at the catcher position, RIGHT NOW, there is nothing for 2019 but Garver and a rehabbed Castro. I don't care...sorry to sound mean...but Wilson may be a great guy, a quality defensive catcher, but he is a AAA catcher, fill in, coach in waiting maybe, who has no business being the starting catcher on a losing team. Two things are paramount to the second half of this season: 1] Continuing to develop what you have. This includes everything from Berrios and Rosario to Kepler as well as Sano and Buxton, and yes, Garver. 2] Make the trade moves that make sense, (Lynn, Rodney, Duke, Dozier maybe/probably, Santana, Morrison huge maybes), and open up opportunities in August and September for those guys who are close. What's more important? Chasing a few more wins in a disappointing season? Or preparing your roster and young talent for 2019?

I hear ya and won't disagree a bit! Maybe its just me but unless there is some sort of "agreement" that lets him know how much you want him back, but this is for talent, and a chance for him to experience the playoffs, etc, but I've always felt you had a better chance to keep someone rather than bring them back. I also should have re-stated my previous arguments that he should be extended.

I know the analogy doesn't correlate directly, but I remember Robert Smith of the Vikings flashing so much potential but often injured early in his career. He spoke once with Tony Dorsett about protecting his body for the good of the team and a full season of production vs maybe fighting for an extra yard at times. Whether that was the answer, or plain old better luck, Smith's career took off and he became one of the top RB in Vikings history, and was one of the best in the NFL before his early retirement. Buxton needs to just get healthy. But his problem is also between his ears. Not that's he's a headache, rather, he's just so talented that so much has come so easily, that at times I think he's missed actual development time in his rather rapid ascent. I think the same is entirely true for Sano, though there may be some maturity/c omitment issues involved as well. Speculation on my part, but I think intelligent speculation. What's most important for these two is not the remaining Twins 2018 season, but what each of them does for their own rest of the season.

No. No. And...um....no. Dozier is almost certainly gone, though I could see scenarios where he stays. Sano is a question mark, though I believe in his potential and a possible big rebound. We aren't certain as to Mauer's future, and Gordon may simply not be quite ready. (Though I've grown to like Gordon and his potential). So we would consider trading, probably, our best overall infielder, with quality offense and versatility, with so many sudden question marks? Somebody better knock our socks off!

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Yes, other teams have injuries. I don't dispute that, or that some teams have dealt with it better. But no Santana at all, no Polanco for half a season, Castro playing injured before having to give it up, the injuries/disappointment with Buxton and Sano, Morrison performing well below career norms, etc, is just an awful lot for any team to overcome unless you have a hell of a bench, or some quality prospects ready to step in. I'm not arguing Molitor or a bench that could have maybe been one player deeper, or a lack of "decent" options at AAA. I hate to use terms like "unlucky" or "snakebit", but really, there has been a rash of injuries and issues that have plagued this team. A contender if everyone is relatively healthy and performing at close to expectation? Make up your own mind. But this would have been the best Twins team assembled in some time otherwise. Tell me all of these things were to happen before the season started and I'd have given you a big "oh vey"!

Reminds me of watching Mejia last season. The stuff is there! Where does stuff and knowledge meet reality and you just "learn" to economize and get those outs?

Generally speaking, the Dodgers and Red Sox have not been shy about being aggressive to win in the past. Which makes reported offers for Dozierin a deal to the Dodgers last year a bit strange. They seem the most likely suitors as they wouldn't be afraid of his remaining contact, (pretty small really), or his potential contract if they decided to bring him back, (Especially with a seemingly depressed market). And again, they have shown tendencies in the past to make big moves to put them over the top. If I'm either of those teams I'm actually pretty excited to make the deal. (Especially since I have nothing at 2B currently). Dozier is a good guy and good teammate. Make jokes if you want, but he's solid defensively. He has a pretty nice record of production, albeit with a proven reputation for strong second halves. (Which is the point of acquiring him now as well). His contract for the remainder of this season is no burden. And I can let him go after the season if I just don't feel like its working out. The bad news for the Twins is, he's only a half season rental and hasn't turned up the temperature of his production to normal standards yet this season. I think it's 50-50 he goes in a trade. I think it honestly comes down to a decent overpay for one of these two clubs, or the Twins keep him and make a decision in the off season how to proceed.

Not knocking any of the previous prospects, or their potential, but it's at this point of the rankings where I get positively giddy. (Yes, I said "giddy"). Not saying he's the most talented player in the system, but could Rortvedt maybe be the most "important"prospect? This team is starving for a long term solution at catcher. If his production/development hold status quo going forward he would be an above average offensive catcher with outstanding defense. Absolutely agree Thorpe could fly up this list the second half. Only thing holding him back is a possible IP limit or a potentially tiring arm. Yes, he needs to stay healthy, but the bought with mono following his missed year due to surgery was a real freak thing, not an injury. I remember when Blankenhorn and Cabbage were drafted, it sure sounded like they drafted the same guy twice. Athletic multi sport athlete with power potential. Sure seems like Blenkenhorn is the better looking of the two at this point. Seems from various scouting reports and game logs he runs fairly well and possesses good instincts. I think he has a real chance to play somewhere in the Twins future infield along with Gordon, Polanco and Lewis. Personally, while I am anxious to see him, and agree on a September promotion, I like the patience the organization has shown with Wade this year. He may turn out to be a better version of Grossman. And that is not a bad thing! But if he can develop a little more power, he could be a much better version of Grossman. Just waiting for Enlow to take off. It seems everything is there for him to develop in to a top pitching prospect. But at 19 in his first full season only 2nd season period, and to be holding his own at A ball is very encouraging. And I think age is a fair point to bring up here. Rortvedt is only 20 and at Ft Myers. Thorpe is only 22m already at AA, despite missing back to back season's due to surgery and then a bad case of mono. Blenkenhorn is 21m in his 2nd full season year at at Ft Myers. At 24, Wade is about right for AAA, certainly not old. And I already mentioned Enlow. I thought the Twins didn't promote aggressively?

Arraez is simply an amazing hitter with contact and OB ability. Even with solid play at 2B, eventually, he will have to fill out a bit and drive the ball more or his his hit ability will be nullified. But as I've said before, he has me re-thinking my ideal infield in the future. I get Person being, IIRC, an athletic 3rd round pick, and I get youth and adjusting to pro ball and wooden bat, but to me he was a "let's see" after a not so great debut. (Though with a decent finish). So far, so very good. Can Jeffers really call a game and catch and throw? Or is he another LeCroy? Time will tell. But hitting potential, decent eye and power potential at least have me intrigued. What is it with Davis? I'm no scout or expert by any means. But there must be some potential I'm not understanding that ranks him so high on so many lists. The production just doesn't seem to match rankings thus far.

That would really hurt, IMO. Which it means it might work. But I'm betting you'd have to replace one of those guys with Kirillhoff.

Only 24 and emerging as a potential true ACE. A definite all star. Especially pitching this well for a losing team. (Kills me to say that last part). What is really disappointing to me is Rosario having to fight to be voted in. Has anyone, anywhere watched him or looked at the numbers? He should absolutely be in the game! Man, he scared me in ST and his first couple of appearances, but Hilgenberger is a stud! How awesome could this pen be with Pressly not being abused, (Maybe he should close, said it before), and Reed pitching to his normal level and someone lime Reed, Curtiss or Busentiz do what Hilgenberger did last year? That is, RUN when opportunity presents itself! Yes, Rodney has blown a few saves, (though mostly that was to begin the season). A little scary at times to be sure, but a 3.06 ERA, 36 SO in 32 IP, and 20 saves before the break for a team with a losing record. Man...what a horrible signing, right?

Yep. No matter how talented a prospect is, he's still a prospect. Might regret it later, but a lower level prospect is still easier to acquire...as a replacement draft choice of international FA...than someone on the roster or kicking in the door at the highest levels.

Not saying yes or no. But I am going to comment. No to Lewis. Yes to Kirillhoff if you can make the rest of the deal work. I say this due to overall OF depth in the system, the recent drafting of Larnach...who could be a viable "replacement" in the system...and the current ML unit of Rosario, Buxton and Kepler. (Put away your pitchforks folks, we still knkw all the potential of this group). If I had to include one of Romero or Graterol, I guess I'd include Graterol. Romero is still very young, has a great ceiling, and has, more or less, arrived. Graterol would seem to be a couple seasons away. But that would also be 2 or our top 3 or 4 prospects, depending if you still can Romero a prospect at this point, and that scares me. We'd probably have to throw at least one more top 15-20 player in there, and that just sounds like an awful lot for 2 years and hope for an extension. I get how good Really do is. And I'd feel different if he had 3 years of control left. I hate to sound complacent, but I think I'd feel more comfortable making a deal for someone younger in a system, or who may seem blocked, and bring him in to compete with Garver and a hopefully healthy Castro. I'm not sure who that would be, but there have been some names thrown out previously. Don't misunderstand, I'd love to have Really do behind the plate for us! And maybe I sound naive or overly optimistic to some, but I'd rather concentrate on the return/development of Buxton, Sano, Kepler and Polanco to lead the offense along with Rosario and Escobar. I'd rather look for a better DH/1B or OF option to replace Morrison. I'd rather concentrate on Gordon in the infield, or a veteran stop-gap for a season or two if Dozier is gone. In what has been a disappointing, frustrating, maddening season, I still think it behooves us to remember and realize the potential of this team, and its young core, especially if augmented with 1 or 2 big or smart moves. Catcher is such an important position for defense, game calling and just handling of the staff. A guy who can provide decent to good offense is outstanding. And they are rare! Again, not saying no, but the 2 years of control to give up so much just scares me. I think I'd hold on to what I have for one more season, find the best young prospect/back up I could find, or the best veteran stop-gap/FA I could acquire as a second alternative, and see if 2018 wasn't just a bad nightmare and watch my young talent, hopefully, flourish in 2019. But if they DID make such a bold move, try to move as many lower level talents as possible. It would still hurt, but would also be easier to replace those guys over the next year or two than lose someone like Romero who can be pencilled in for 2019 and beyond.