DocBauer

I like the big buyout for a quality player from a team that needs to shed salary, gain prospects, etc. I just don't know that Price has enough left in the tank to be worth anything close to what he is due. Great minds think alike, lol, as I suggested a front loaded contract on another thread. I am also very much on favor of front loaded extensions. These are all great ideas as a way to maintain flexibility for the next few years. Something tells me they are smart enough to do these things.

With either 7 or 8 man pen, at least a couple guys should ha e at least one option left. That means plenty of room for Romero, Alcala, Smeltzer, etc, to make contributions. I think Smeltzer can be a key guy, whether #5 starter or middle man.

Not trying to open up the whole prospect trade arguement here, but just want to say if I were to make a list of "untouchables" in the system, it would be 4 guys: Lewis, Kirilloff, Graterol and Balazovic.

I hope you are right. I am very excited about his potential as well as Lewis's and Graterol's. I am hoping all 3 are with thr Twins and actively contribiting at some point, if not a chunk of the season.

Exactly! And a year from now, Cruz, Rosario, others could be gone via FA, trade, etc. As to your "going for it" comment, $70M would put the Twins at around $140M total. Still below the mean the past few seasons.

The very fact his last post game was NOT as a member of the Astros and was wearing a Boras corporation hat tells me a lot about him. (My opinion). He could absolutely decide he loved his time in Houston and would love to return. And he could absolutely decide the pull of playing in CA isn't as big of a deal as playing with a chance to win for a quality club. But I think $$$$ wins out.

Much deserved for both guys! A little surprised they got it right with Garver.

#1 Berrios: So much talent and so much potential. People forget how young he still is. Home grown, power arms with #1 potential are rare. #2 Sano: People also forget how young he is as well. While we can debate endlessly, and have, as to his defensive merits at 3B, or how long he can stay there, his bat PLAYS! #3 Buxton: Healthy all of last season, I'd have him #2. Does he bet on himself still being the next Mays, Griffey Jr or Trout? Or does he view career/life in a more pragmatic fashion and realize he may be better off with guaranteed money on a still good deal vs looking/hoping for some mega contract? #4 Rogers: Guy is fantastic and might even get better. But with control for a few more years, I'd hold off until at least next season. There is just no need to rush. #5 Rosario: I am a HUGE Rosario fan. I also agree some of the defensive numbers and opinions don't accurately reflect his full ability. I also object that his production is somehow easily replaceable. Production is production. The one thing that has held him back, slightly, is a couple of injuries that slowed him a bit. I really want him around. But let's be honest, unless moved, Kiriloff, Larnach, Rooker and Raley are all 4 really, really interesting bats that could be ready over the next year plus. Just don't think I'd extend him at this point. But I sure wouldn't be disappointed if they did.

I don't believe the debate is whether or not you trade Kirilloff, Lewis, or any prospect. In the grand scheme of things, virtually any prospect can and would be traded in the right deal. Especially if you can trade from depth. The conversation is about him appearing in 2020 for the Twins. His 2019 season was a bit disappointing to be sure. Injuries obviously played a part in that. But he didn't exactly flail, and he finished strong. Prospects. ALL prospects, are about potential and ability. He appears to have the ability to be a quality and fairly patient hitter with real power potential. He could absolutely be a stalwart in either corner OF spot or 1B, or all three. I would not be surprised to see him open 2020 in AA and then move up to AAA, possibly quickly. A lot depends on how he looks in ST. I object to the idea he should be moved quickly if he's not clearly scheduled to be a starting piece in 2021. I just think that is short-sighted. "Well, we decided he wasn't ready to set the world on fire as a 22yo so we got rid of him", for example. If he takes, and there is an injury opportunity or other, I dont believe the FO would hesitate to bring him up. And if everyone is healthy and there is no need to push him up, I've read comments about late 2020, maybe August or September. I'm OK with that, to get him ready for 2021. But playing devil's advocate, what if he has a really nice year and the Twins OF is healthy and productive? Do you add him to the 40 man and bring him up? Or do you bring him to ST for 2021, and save a 40 man spot until you make a final decision? Not due to service time, just to keep a 40 man spot open. Personally, I think he has a very nice 2020 and is in line at some point later in the year for a promotion. But it really depends if the OF is healthy, productive and we are in the playoffs. If we are, it simply may not be his time yet.

I am sick of bizarre and frankly wrong and ticky tac penalties in football. What really kills me is the refs in the NFL almost seem worse than the ones on college. I understand reffing or umpiring in any sport is a tough gig. And I'm in favor or quick, decisive replay to get things right. But they can't be quick, nor do they even get a lot of replays right! I understand some calls will always require some interpretation of a rule. I accept judgement is part of the process. But no even standard is the problem, and at some point, you have to let the players actually play and see what happens. In baseball, while there seems to be a lack of standards from one ump to another, or even during a game for bad umps, at least there isn't a replay and debate every few plays. Pitchers and hitters all benefit from bad calls, or no calls. Don't misunderstand, I WANT the home plate umpire to call it right, or at least consistent. But IMO opinion, rules and criteria are not enforced. I get different hitters have different parameters physically, so the strike zone itself will change, at least on the vertical plane. In other words, Altuve will have a smaller strike zone than Judge on a vertical plane. Regardless, the criteria is written down in the rule book for the top and bottom of that zone. Further, you have a standard 17" wide plate that marks the horizontal plane. A hard breaking pitch can move a ton, but can the umpires really not see it crossing the plate in or out??? Unlike the NFL, MLB umpires are professional and not part time. I've always felt there was a lack of education and standards and legitimate grading system in place. If you can't perform your job consistently, then you shouldn't be doing that job! If and when the robot ump can be tweaked to be faster in it's call, and logorhyms can be enhanced for an accepted and true "norm", I could be in favor of the change. From reading comments from batters and pitchers both, it appears they generally agree the computer interpreted zone is not fully accurate. Makes me wonder, again, is it possible a certain percentage of the ball must pass through the zone "window" to be called a strike. I'd like to think technology could allow for that in the future. Until then, MLB needs to hold human umpires to a harder grading criteria for accuracy as it is spelled out.

I'd be interested in Hamels or Teheran as possible 4th starter options, or perhaps even as #5 guys if Pineda is brought back, reserving Dobnak, Smeltzer, Thorpe and Graterol as almost uncommon depth to begin the season, and #5 options early with Pineda finishing out his suspension. And having too much pitching really doesn't exist. But at some poin't, you also have to trust your youngsters and provide them opportunity.

Just finished read in an article about this in the latest Baseball America. I'd encourage anyone and everyone to read it if possible. No way to know if the writer has a bias and only selected quotes/opinions that fit his article...I'd like to think that was not the case...but the consensus amongst both hitters and pitchers was they not only didn't like the loss of the human element, not just umpires but catchers as well. There was a general feeling that the strike zone was actually expanded beyond the normal as the ball clipping even a fraction of the zone was called a strike, even on some pitches that hit the dirt. Steve touched on this in great detail. And while some felt the side to side of the zone may have been expanded, it wasn't entirely inaccurate, in their opinion. In fact, a few hitters felt it gave them an advantage. But those interviewed felt the horizontal plane for calls was not accurate/realistic. Again, Steve's comments touched on this. There was also disparaging comments from both hitters and pitchers in regard to the 4 second delay. I am sure everyone would simply adapt to the change. I'm sure tweaks could take place for more immediacy in the call, as well as plane adjustments for greater accuracy. I see no reason why a computer program couldn't also be adjusted so that a certain percentage of a ball must pass through the zone vs a tiny fraction. But until those adjustments could be made, I'm not in favor of the robot ump and it appears the players are not either.

I believe the years in the OP are incorrect, unless time has simply blurred my memory. Should be approximately $130M in 2018 coming off the WC '17 season and a downward move to $114 for 2019. Correct? Regardless, the numbers remain the same. IMHO, the FO/ownership ponied up that $130M coming off the '17 season with some smart moves that simply didn't work out due to many factors. They took a step back in payroll for 2019, but took major steps forward in everything from a new manager and staff to tweaks in the milb system, to even smarter signings, promotions, etc. Publicly, they stated they were looking for the team to take a step forward in certain areas to open their competitive window, and even used Sano and Buxton as examples. They stated they would show additional aggressiveness if they felt the move forward and improvement took place. Well, it did and has. They have now, publicly, stated they are looking to add difference makers, especially in regard to pitching, to move this team forward. While I think it is foolish to simply come up with an arbitrary number and just say "this is where they should be in 2020", I think it's very fair to expect a raise in payroll going in to next season. Why do I say it's foolish to pick an arbitrary number? Very simply, despite taking a step back in payroll last season, even while making additions to the team, the biggest reason for improvement was health and the progress of the core talent on hand. Even if $130M is a mythical target to hit, there is still vast amount of payroll to keep this team intact, as well as add pitching. Let's assume for a moment that Odorizzi is indeed back, which most expect to be the case whether via the QO or a longer term deal. Let us also assume Pineda is back, which would logical based on production/results and both parties trumpeting they'd be interested. Of course, there are a few other possibilities to replace Pineda, but financially they'd be comparable. While 1B and backup catcher not to mention the possible addition of a RP need to be looked at, the Twins would still have almost $40M to still work with just to match the 2019 payroll. While I am NOT saying the Twins won't/shouldn't make a run at Cole and/or Strasburg, let us just assume that their is no interest to join the Twins, or that the terms just become too crazy for the Twins to top. But what about someone like Wheeler, comparable age, quality stuff, but a step down from those two in results thus far, is brought on board. You are essentially replacing Perez and Gibson with Wheeler and a combination of Dobnak/Smeltzer/Thorpe/Graterol. I think I'd call that improvement, especially at the top. And there is still $ left over to address other needs, and/or take a smaller deal on a veteran for the 5th spot as well, deepening your options and SP depth. All while still hovering around the $114M mark of 2019. But at this point, why wouldn't they at least target that $130M number from 2018? And I feel they will. Now you sign Wheeler, maybe sign that additional SP for depth, add another viable BP piece, keep Cron, and maybe even entice Castro back and still sit around that $130M area you were at just a season ago. I believe the team will be setting their payroll somewhere around the $130M mark and will go up to $140M if the moves make sense. I believe they will target that area as it makes real sense, and still allows them flexibility for a couple more extensions without surpassing the ML mean of about $150M. This makes an even better team in 2020 with additions, while keeping the core in place, allows for extensions, and still keeps the overall budget fluid for the next few seasons.

Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. I meant not protect as in remove. Or Cave if they truly liked Wade more.

NOT counting 40 man numbers to the MARK, or allowing spots for FA, but simply looking at possible additions: Duran: Yes Chalmers: Maybe to no. I want to keep him, but would he really stick with another team at this point? Raley: Yes. If not for his injury, we are talking about NOT protecting Wade, IMO. Blankenhorn/Celestino: Would like to protect both. Scared another team would try to fit them in where they could. But could they realistically do so? Javier: Yes. Too much talent, too much potential. Some team would use the 26 man roster and find any small hurt/injury to justify keeping him around. Jax: Even with expanded rosters, just no room to keep him on board for a full season, and potential still unsure enough to do so. Rijo: You just don't keep someone this young and unproven on your roster unless you are really certain of future reward. Similar to Jax, but probably a higher ceiling. Amongst the rest, Wiel is the only one I'd hate to see go. He might have a future. But where does he fit in order to be protected over so many others?

My thoughts, line by line: 1] Perez is a no-brainer at this point. I don't know if he just lost what he had, or the league figured him out. If he is just willing to do what others have done before, and embrace the idea of converting to the pen to extend his career and make $, then I could see him back on a low level deal. But unless someone else thinks they can really make a change his days as a ML SP are done, and history should show this. 2] Odorizzi will now be back, barring some crazy surprise. There is talk about how the QO really is a win-win for the team. I'd argue that to some degree. Odorizzi has stated he'd like to come back. He either makes a TON of money, close to what he has made in his career to this point, and then becomes a FA next season, OR, negotiates an extended offer with the Twins. I think win-win for both sides and he's back. 3] Gonsalves and Stewart are only slightly surprising. It's time for Stewart to move on and see if a change of scenery could make him a decent RP somewhere. A healthy 2019, I don't think Gonsalves is gone. But there are only so many spots to fill, and 2019 IS a factor at this point. I ALWAYS thought he would take an extra year than most wanted but turn out to be a nice "pitcher" who would fill a 4-5 slot but could have the light turn on and maybe be a solid #3 after a couple of years. Best of luck! 4] Losing Swanson hurts equally as much as Rowson, IMO. He was brought in with the forward thinking FO not only for defensive work, but he brought in a whole different philosophy in regard to little things like catchers having batting practice before defensive drills while they were still fresh. He brought innovation. Sure hoping they have someone else in mj d already to take his place.

To me, and I could be wrong, the problem with looking at the college ranks on the hitting side for a hire is not simply a lack of analytics and sportstrac type of data. The college game, offensively, from a coaching standpoint, is a lot like being a scout trying to factor in future production due to the aluminum bat. At the heart of things, pitching is still pitching. When a college, or HS, pitcher is introduced to pro ball, they are suddenly facing lineups, generally speaking, that would equate to an all conference team. Except, no more aluminum bat. Now reverse that. Can a college level hitting coach make the adjustments to the wooden bat in regard to approach and adjustment? No answer on my end. Just throwing it out there.

The sophomore slump, in all sports, is very real. It's real because video, coaches, more experienced players all make it real due to adjustments. And I am not going to annoit Arraez as the next Gwynn or Carew at this point. That would be ridiculous. But I will say that there are players who simply have a gift, an "it" factor, that transcends. Arraez does not have pure power, or speed, or overt athleticism that entices. But he does have a special ability to see pitches, see the situation, and place a round bat on a round ball and make something happen. On top of that, we all saw examples last season where he showed natural instincts to just play ball and do what was right. The league will adjust. But he shows the natural ability to adjust himself. Comps should just stop. We will see how he develops. But I really am not worried about any sophomore slump, even if there is some regression involved. Hate to use hyperbole, but this kid is a ballplayer!

Personally, I don't think Rosario is bad defensively if his wheels are sound. He will make a bad play here and there, but, he will make 2 or 3 really good plays to counteract the bad one. I like Polanco at SS and feel be is still growing in to the position. I honestly expect growth from him and Sano just from experience. I've seen it too many times to dismiss the potential of another season before I begin to wonder about change.

Would MLB rules allow for a binary speaking coach in the dugout?

This speaks to me as a similar discussion in the Rondon OP. Strengthening what you already have is not a bad idea. But the Twins have something pretty nice in Garver. I would much rather pay for Castro to be back at half the price, at least, and worry about growth and depth elsewhere.

So happy to see so many fellow Trekkers out there in TD land. I am not alone!!

I really, really like our BP for next season. Especiaĺy if we sign Romo back as an inexpensive veteran option who still brings it. But whoever it may be, this pen needs another quality LH who is not some LOOGY. (Especially since 2020 rules will be in place). I know the rotation is the absolute #1 priority, but that 2nd LHRP should not be undersold. I'm just not sure who is the right choice. Sure hope the FO has a target.

Eddie is a very talented and productive ballplayer. Eddie will only be 28yr old in 2020 unless I am mistaken. Eddie could be a STAR for the next 3-5yrs if he just matures a little bit more and learns a little more discipline through experience. Eddie could be gone by 2021, maybe, by Kirilloff, Larnach, Rooker, if things play right. Unless he is part of a package to bring a front line SP, his value is staying with the Twins for 2020. We will see after next season what happens. We could see someone blow the doors off next season and make him expendable.

There is risk in ANY move you make, whether it be a FA signing, a trade, or even a draft selection. You try to mitigate said risk by simply being smarter...sometimes lucky...and attempting to balance risk/reward in all situations. Back to the original OP. I get it. But I don't get it. This a GOOD team. There are holes to be filled. There are ways to fill those holes. Rendon is a really good baseball player. But you are trying to say he would be a difference maker to push the Twins over the top with a big contract if they swing and miss on pitching? Sorry, I want the defense to improve as much as anyone. But I would put my chips all in on pitching, re-signs, FA, trades vs continued improvement/development from Sano, Polanco and Arraez before I'd sign a position player, no matter how good, who's offense might be replicated by the guy you want to replace him with. Isn't Moose also a FA, or am I mistaken? If the Twins really want to move Sano to 1B, which it doesn't appear they want to do at this time, does he suddenly become a more elite talent There? No to Rendon. Let's focus on what we have, make some smart moves in the pitching area and rock and roll! It almost feels, at times, that some feel we are coming off a 101 loss season vs a 101 win season.