Cris E

It does kind of make sense. Joe was the old school, invest 57% of revenue, nice guys finish third, Twins organization dating back 40 years. He threw some cash in when a playoff run was all but guaranteed in 2023, rolled it back as soon as the World Series did not materialize, and assumes no one knows who is running things and will forgive all. Falvey had a budget that he spent pretty aggressively, got told the money would be there as long as he won, was probably shocked to find out what constituted winning and that he hadn't won enough in 2023 to keep his budget. So he falls back, digs in along the new budget line and gets excoriated for it. Then a team sale fell apart due to loads of debt and a huge vacuum where MLB's plans for post-RSN revenue streams was supposed to be. Ownership went into a silent conclave and all management was told was "we'll see what we have in 26, weather the lockout in 27, and go for it in 28" which was enough to hire Shelton and put us where we are today. The only piece that doesn't easily fit was the culpability for the fire sale decision. If there was never going to be any money until after the new CBA then it was probably Joe's call under the Falvey advice that they couldn't win with the hand they have so throw it all in and start over. The huge collapse in fan support was probably a large part of what got things hot in the boardroom and drew out the fratricide. Tom's crew probably felt they didn't need to go that far back with just some investment and gumption. What comes next is filling in some of this history, actually announcing some sort of budget, maybe extending someone to show earnestness, and then hunkering down until summer. As someone mentioned above, it's a bad time to prove your mettle: right after most mid-range free agents have been signed, right after a manager hire, months before the season starts. Plus there's no indication that the TV revenue situation has a solution. I guess some CBA saber rattling is a place to show activity, maybe show that they want to follow the San Diego model of merely hoping to keep the team self-sufficient rather than a lucrative holding. Good luck buys. Hope Christmas is merrier than this article hints at.

@Riverbrianpart of the problem with comparing the chances Lewis and Lee got vs LH outfielders is that those two are our only obvious candidates for SS/3B right now and there's a parade of LH corner OF guys waiting to get a chance to hit against lefties. It's not some giant plot, just a mismatch in the number of platoon partners for those guys. After the trade deadline Rocco may have wanted to give them more or fewer opportunities to hit against lefties, but there was no obvious youngster to check out on the left side of the infield whereas Outman and Roden and Larnach and Wallner and Keirsey all need to be given a chance and then kept or tossed. In 2026 Shelton is going to be asked to see what we have and what it will take to complete in either 2027 or 2028 (depending on the CBA tumult.) Looking at the organizational roster there were no internal 1B options to build around so they spent some money, similar to what they'll do in the bullpen. They were short some RH pop so they got a vaguely league average stick and are probably not going to let him hit LH very much because they have a lot of LH hitters to evaluate this year. Any complaints about Teams That Are Serious About Winning just comes from fans being fans, not a serious attempt to understand what the team is doing. To be fair the team is still flailing a bit in this regard, but from what Shelton said when he was hired, a year of evaluation followed by steps back towards contention supports what has been done so far. They're going to sort through what they have, fill the gaps that don't have obvious candidates and look ahead once they see the new hands start coming into their own. EDIT: I seem to have hit Enter too soon.

Lewis is in that uncomfortable space between having shown us some great MLB potential and having proven who he is. He was slowed in his step forward by a lot of injuries, similar to Buxton when he was trying to cement his place in the game. And like Buxton I think the next step has to him figuring out how to stay on the field. I think the team has done well by him, giving him a set role and as much rope and he could handle to prove himself. It's time for Royce to not comment on the guys around him and just focus on his health, his hitting, his availability and the rest will work itself out. Alas I said the same things in the past with very mixed results. Buxton could always hit but has only managed 50% attendance in his career, and Miranda's road back was crushed by his beaning last year, so the precedence for these guys seems to remain more tantalizing than complete.

Lewis gets treated like a superstar for one reason: 5 grand slams in his first 16 HR, and doing it during the playoff season. Sure, he's a great interview, but so are a lot of guys; even Julien was a quirky media darling for a while (Edouard Julien, Are You Gonna Rule Again?) when he was hitting. But if Royce had just hit 3-run HRs in those situations he'd be held in much different esteem today, and his diminished control of the strike zone, loss of power and vaguely improving defense would leave him much closer to Walner than Budding Superstar darling. In fact if Walner had hit a couple more clutch HR in the last year or two he could easily be sitting in the Favorite Son position. So where does that leave him for 2026? Some above have proposed just throwing him out there and letting him play, but that's what 2025 was. He got a very long leash, playing whenever he was available, but he only managed to stay on the field regularly for the second half. And he did improve as he got further from his injuries, but that's something he seems to share with Buxton: they need to learn to take care of the body and spend as much time on maintenance as playing. There's a certain amount of luck involved, but Byron has gotten better about it as he's aged (ie more injuries from HBP than walls) so maybe he can teach it to Royce. Lewis only seems to make adjustments in the offseason. Last year it was reportedly throwing and defense, so my hope is that he's spent this winter working on his hitting. His power is down, his walks are down, and if he wants to say it was his legs then fine, focus on building the foundation. But this year determines if he's a career MLB player or just another Kevin Maas.

Raya was so bad last year that he may as well stay in the AAA rotation until he proves he's over whatever happened in 2025. He's so far from relevant that the long-term goal may as well remain in place. If he blows the doors off he can come up to Mpls as a swingman or fill a rotation hole, but if he's in the Saints' pen his utility is lower.

I'm done clicking on Cody S. This is more crap.

The problem with Lowe is that if they commit real resources to him he blocks the experiments that the team needs to conduct at 1B. Someone needs to leave the OF in the coming years and 1B is a place to perhaps park someone's bad glove. (Looking at you, Wallner.) But if it's modest money they can cut him back when better options appear, like they did with Gallo and France. They can grab both these relievers, but at some point they need to convert a couple young starters to the end of the game and this is the year to begin that. There's a lot more fungibility with bullpen roles, but we need to keep a few chairs for our callow youth and not just fling open the gates like some refugee haven. Remember we already grabbed Orza so this bus is filling up already.

I don't think this is pressure, I think it's signaling their plans quietly. This should not have been written without acknowledging that Shelton went through his interviews with Falvey and came out with an understanding of what was coming, and was satisfied with the plan. Falvey can't be claiming no idea on budget and boundaries if that's the case. I mean maybe Shelton likes youngsters and losing, but it's far more likely he heard a tale of "evaluate in 26, lockout and new lineup in 27, win in 28." Last weekend the infallible Charlie Walters (ha!) said the new minority investors get right of first refusal once the CBA sets new revenue rules and sale talks spiral back up. The idea they spend this season keeping their powder dry until 27 makes sense, as would keeping Byron, trading away Lopez (who they don't extend) and signing Ryan longer term with the freed money. The one thing that I still don't get it why the new partners are still shrouded. I mean no one likes the PE guys, but the local one would make a nice distraction.

Molitor was not a numbers guy. He was the last old school guy in the org, and the only reason he worked a day for Falvey was the MoY award that made him impossible to fire. He would make a good scout, but not because he's any kind of numbers guy.

Glad to see them taking a measured approach to the restaffing. There were some things that were not working and there were parts that were, and Maki and his crew were pretty much delivering.

He doesn't feel much different from the last couple guys who held the job. Worse, Detroit had some of the same problems in 2025 that the Twins saw. A late season swoon, some youngsters plateauing or sliding back, a couple others showing some steps forward, but in the end not enough offense to go where they wanted to be. Think about how Lewis has stalled since 2024 and then look at Baez or Torkelson over the past three years and tell me he'll help him make changes. OTOH Beauregard has to be excited about his prospects in 2027 once he's scapegoated in MN and hired by some playoff team.

So much stuff in this thread, both right and wrong, it makes me crazy. Mostly the Twins outfield situation comes down to giving guys a fair chance to come up and play, to work through or around injuries and prove who they are at the high minor and MLB levels. Buxton is a superstar when healthy, and he's been missing less time over the past couple years. Keep him as long as he'll play here. The idea that he "deserves" a post-season is trash. So do I, so do we all, and we're not getting paid millions. Everyone is happy if they win, so keep him. Wallner is a hitter, and the roster does not have many guys with his power (and just not McCasker's empty 40% K power) so you can't be tossing that aside. He can throw real good, but no one cares if he's always starting with his back to the infield chasing a bouncing ball, so put him at 1B or DH and let him hit. Larnach has had that chance, and he has staked his claim to being a solid platoon lefty corner OF. That's it, not terrible with the glove, no untapped power potential, just an average LF. That's valuable, but not to the Twins at $4-5m. He might be able to be traded for something, but only an equivalent, fungible back of bullpen arm in the 4.90 ERA range, and not cheap. Do you want someone else's Michael Tonkin or Justin Topa? Because we had some and cut them last week. Martin is at this point an outfielder. In 2025 he was up for two months and only saw 2B four times, and that included months after the starting SS was traded and Royce Lewis only playing about 100 games at 3B. In the minors he only played 2B six times vs 25 games in the OF and 4 at DH, and he was last seen at SS in 2022 in AA and never anywhere else. And now Keashall has ended that 2B experiment. But he did hit better this year, and improved his LF defense as well. So is he a future piece in the team's plans? An OBP-driven 106 OPS+ from LF that only stole at a 66% clip with average defense is not a great asset (unless you have a hole there.) Most teams can and should do better, so he stays on as a placeholder until a youngster steals his job (just as Luke took his 2B spot.) I thought Rodan looked OK until he tore up his hand. He's had a good minor league track record, so I would expect him to start the year in LF. Outman had a lot of looks and only had one good year in LA. He can reclaim a shot in Mpls with a few good months in St Paul to wash away his 2025. Then you get into the new kids, and honestly none of them has enough outstanding history to demand a spot at the next level yet so we wait until mid-year. In short, move Larnach, play Buxton, Wallner, Roden, some Martin as the fourth and Outman when he demands a shot, and then wait until the kids evolve. They aren't going to spend with Jenkins and the others this close to being ripe. EDIT: I crossed myself up a bit, but I believe Martin is the incumbent for 2026 but I expect Roden to take the starting job from him in spring.

I agree with this completely, and I wish for two more things. I'd like to see him get some time away and just get healthy, whether it be in the minors somewhere or just driving Uber for a couple years. He did not look like a guy living his best life last summer. And I'd like an honest airing of this with Morneau or Koskie or someone else who has lived it and how it affected their vision and broader functioning. Injured guys can play for years hoping the fog clears and they can get back to who they were, but it doesn't always happen. That's a story that could benefit everyone.

The recent American players you listed grew up in a wildly different baseball world than those of 20, 30 or 40 years ago. They play year round, drilling in cages far away from fields way more than anyone did a generation ago. There are fewer games for the guys who go to college so they play less than guys drafted out of high school. Buxton, Lewis and Miranda played over 120 games at 19 and 20, whereas college guys like Larnach, Lee, Wallner and Julien don't see 100 games until maybe age 22. Martin still hasn't been in 100 games in a season yet and he's 26. And pretty much every one of those old timers listed above hit 100 games by 20 except Puckett, and his baseball schedule was skewed by poverty and his father's death. (Knobber and Gaetti were 21.) The game experience that comes from playing daily in the Dominican academies or 110 dates at Quad Cities at age 19 (Mauer) or 125 games across three levels at 19 (Buxton) are different from the weeks of drilling and 50-60 games that you get in the NCAA. Larnach got 59 PA in 28 games at 19 and batted .157 as a pinch hitter and DH (only 6 games in RF.) Few freshmen are going to get the chances that a raw fieldhand in A ball sees. And to make the lack of game-time worse, there is more "analytic" baseball being played at lower and lower levels every year, where platooning, numerous relief pitchers and Three True Outcomes strategies are more common. That removes a lot of the decision making and adjusting from players and puts it in the hands of managers. One big difference between the guys that started young and the other names are that poor performance usually gets you out of the game before you turn 21, whereas college guys don't hit the grind until far later and seem like bigger disappointments when they fail at 23 or 24. I'm not one of those "Back In My Day" geezers shaking my fist at clouds, but when you skip college and head to the minors you are making the game your job and you do more of it earlier. That playing time brings the opportunities to see in-game pitcher adjustments and counter them, or to feel the effects of a fifth or sixth game in a row, or playing the same team a fifth or tenth time in a season. It's harder, and the earlier you encounter that and struggle with it the better your chances of overcoming it.

Absolutely this. His 2024 avg was .320 (.511 slg) through July 28 and .217 (.311 slg) after, and his woes in 2025 are stated above. There was never much discussion about concussion or long term effects of this, but those brain injuries can take years to recover from. Mauer got his concussion in 2013 and never hit like that again. Morneau had his in 2010 and didn't hit for average again (ie close to .300) until 2014. Not sure if that's a case in favor of working with Miranda or cutting him loose until he shows that he's recovered, but it's quite clear that no one is saying this out loud.

I can't see anyone taking a flyer on some of the1 current 40 man residents. McCusker and Gasper, for example, can be set on the shelf with a handshake offer for an invite to spring training. Neither is likely to be signed as anything more than organizational filler and those deals aren't cut until spring. Also, the calculus of losing players needs to be more sophisticated than Chance Of Losing. You need to gauge the actual value of these guys you might be clinging to and the chances that one actually gets picked up. As pointed out above, it's almost 0% for most young non-pitchers, particularly those without any defensive value. McCusker is a one dimensional guy with no defensive value who hasn't shown he can touch good pitching, and hoping that he learns to hit at age 28 is not nearly as interesting or likely as seeing if one of the younger guys develops his skills. He got a look last year and his minor league 30-40% K rate went over 50% with the Twins. There's no situation where he should be the chosen future option given the number of new faces needing a look (and all the guys like Wallner who might need another place to stand between ABs.) Gaspar is similar except for the fact that he's a weak catcher with a great mustache. Those are a dime a dozen rather than a penny a long ton. If they honestly think highly enough of Olivar that there's a chance that someone could grab him as a backup catcher, then run that same risk that we might be that team and leave Gaspar free until the dust settles. It creates a problem on the 40 man in the short term, but you're more likely to get McCusker over-looked now than in March when teams are actively trying to complete the back half of their AAA rosters.

There are plenty of Pirates fans who were tired of the sloppy play, the separate rules for stars and the "players' manager" attitude that Shelton displayed. He's saying a lot of nice things now just as he did on March 31 in the clip above, but he's the first to start walking this walk. Hawkins in the bullpen might be able to help with the bad cop role, but fundamentals are a top down attitude that has to be stressed all year. I agree with@old nurse above when he points out that Nick got a very different vibe from that presser. But I push back a bit on claims that all those nice ideals come from the players. They are not personality traits, but team traits that guys buy into. "If this is what we do then that's what I have to do." It's the sort of thing that redd*ss players in the dugout enforce. The manager sets that tone and its success depends on how well it's executed and if enough guys buy in. EDIT: Here's a comment from a Pirates blogger: https://rumbunter.com/twins-are-about-to-learn-the-hard-derek-shelton-truth-that-crushed-pirates-hope This one is even rougher: https://operations-lab.com/blog/derek-sheltons-pirates-tenure-a-1761864040686

If that's the case then move Lopez and shift the cash to cover more holes. May and Hoskins, however, are not the answer to any question a $95m payroll team should be asking.

Colby Suggs has a good reputation but has just been displaced in the bullpen, so we may be losing another shortly. EDIT: it may be that this org needs a scapegoat every year and those consequences rarely reach the levels they ought. The poorly built 2022 team with no bench led to a training staff purge. Bad hitting means a new coach. Trade away the bullpen and fire that coach. Some of this should have been Falvey's problem, but more should be laid at the door of ownership and its perennial shrug when a flat investment of 47% of revenue (or whatever the formula is) doesn't allow them to keep up with the market.

It was in direct response to an article trying to draw parallels between these two. It's a dumb point to raise because the two teams were so utterly different that lessons drawn will not reflect much on the managers. What's your point? You've just called out two posters for not having an opinion, which does not add value. Write about Shelton.

Derek Shelton <> Terry Francona EDIT: To clarify, I am not saying they are in any way interchangeable. Rather that these are not at all alike. This situation has a few differences from Franona's second gig with the 2004 Boston Red Sox roster, for example.

The MLB Trade Rumors article on trade candidates listed Heim from Texas in their top 40. He was good two years ago but then regressed, but some of the lost value was in framing and that might cease to be a valuable skill once the lasers arrive. He makes the same as Jeffers but his market value is probably lower so getting him would take less than what they'd get for Jeffers. OTOH he might be worse for the same money and we still wouldn't have a backup. Whatever, dumping Jeffers is a dumb trade unless they get some Wonka-grade prize in return.

I love this point. Teams just don't do these trades because a player with two years left that's worth a ton in trade is probably better than most of the prospects that you'd get back. There are exceptions like Juan Soto, but he returned a ton because he was a guy that never comes along rather than a guy who never comes up in trade talks. Joe Ryan is a good starting pitcher, but he's no ace. The Twins need a starting SS or C and most teams won't make that trade for a #2 or #3.

I think the whole thing comes down to money, not strategy. Without money they will lose in any situation, and with some money they can get back on track within a year or two. With some spending they could be close to .500 right away. If they trade away these players the resulting short-term bridge team will lose until new talent comes aboard. But if they rely on the system providing a new SS, a new catcher, a bullpen, a new 3b (once Lewis proves he can't be trusted) all at one time they will lose because those parts are not all in their minor leagues today. At some point they will need to spend and the day that starts happening is the day they'll regain fans and make some money. Losing games is losing money, and as bad as the current TV contract is, it's made worse by fielding a bad team. So it all comes down to Pohlad fortitude. I am sad, for they are soulless and weak. That puts Falvey on the spot to decide how to go about saving money. That means a choice to add something rather than a choice to dump something. The monster return for these guys is a MLB-ready starting catcher and/or shortstop. That 18 year old catcher we got from PHI may be terrific, but he's exactly 42 light years away from relevance. He just won't contribute in 2027. Maybe we get a SS from BAL or that young catcher from LAD, but it only works as a blockbuster for talent rather than away from payroll. And it entails a commitment from ownership to start spending again in the not-too-distant future. Getting great players is swell, but great means they're more mature, and thus probably close to arb dollars. There aren't enough top rookie players to run a payroll on them not being paid, so the Pohlads will need to spend enough to keep 15-20 of them around long enough to win, whether it be 85 games or a world series (and then be able to sell the team for $8 billion dollars and be free of this tedious nightmare of MLB ownership!) I'm only kind of laughing, because saying you want to tear it down and build something great sort of implies that you still want to own it when it's great, and that'll cost money. I guess this is a plea to stave off the destruction and work towards a sale, which is now more possible given the debt pay-down.

That was one season where Sonny was coming off a lot of injuries. The next year he earned longer outings and got them, improving from 119 innings in 24 starts (just under 5 IP/start) to 184 innings in 32 starts (5.75 innings/start) and finished second in CY voting. The idea that Rocco held him back was not a real thing.