Major League Ready

While I completely agree with the part about new leadership, especially the part about Tom Pohlad getting out of the way, the existing leadership should not take all the blame given Tom Pohlad insisted on the path they took this year. To do a 180 in the middle of a rebuild is simply incompetent, to do a 180 and invest virtually nothing is next level incompetence if he actually thought they were going to contend. If the goal was to appease a given segment of fans in hope of improving the bottom line, he managed that pretty well.

I can't believe anyone bought the BS. If Tom Pohlad was serios about doing a 180 on the rebuild and contending, they would have spent some money in the off-season on free agent RPs to replace at least part of what they had traded away. They had $110M payroll to start the season if my memory is correct. They spend $2M on Rogers and $1.65M on Banda while telling fans he is not a half-measure guy. It looks to me like nothing but smoke and mirrors.

We don't know what happened, but it looked to me like Falvey tried to push-back on the we must be contenders' theme and Pohlad showed him the door. We do know that Falvey had started down a rebuild path. Zoll may have realized that he could fall in line or join Falvey looking for a job.

A) It is not hindsight. There were plenty of posters who said investing in this team was foolish and that it would cost the team long-term. As @TheLeviathan pointed out, there was a significant opportunity cost, especially given that this team was only in contention for a playoff spot because of the overall weakness of the AL. B) Players were not called up because Tom Pohald is/was under the delusion this team is a contender. You can't count on even really good prospects to hit out of the gate. That's a reasonable fear when you are contending. The management of this organization was never going to replace Larnach as long as they thought there was any shot at the post season. They could have / should have made personnel decisions based on building a contender rather than pretending they were a contender.

No. There is no Icon because it has no function on your own post.

What color is the sky in your world?

I was always pretty indifferent to the Pohlads. They didn't add much as owners but they spent consistent with revenue and let the baseball people run the show. I think Tom Pohlad's decision to do a 180 on a rebuild is the dumbest thing I have ever seen from this organization. Had he been willing to spend significantly on a BP it would not have been quite as bad. Instead he headed down a half-assing it path and a lot of people were just fine with it because they were not trading Ryan. They were really well-position to add impact players by trading Lopez, Ryan, and Jeffers. They managed to turn that opportunity into absolutely nothing. Does anyone here think Milwaukee would have squandered this opportunity. They probably could have gotten something for Larnach too. Being better than Joe Pohlad was a low bar but Tom managed to screw this up as badly as possible. We will never know exactly what the cost was to "go fo it" but it probably starts with Tolle and Arias which alone would have made us considerably better for 6+ years. This was an opportunity to elevate the organization. The entire league expected us to trade Ryan. Tom wanted to believe he was the hero when he simply knows squat about building a MLB organization and he should have left those decisions in the hands of someone who has built a MBL organization. This coming from a guy who tended to defend the Pohlad's or at least say they are not as bad as they are made out to be.

Oh man, you went right to my least favorite draft pick, perhaps ever in Keoni Cavaco. I was expecting Corbin Caroll's name to be called for the Twins Pick or perhaps Stott and they pick a guy nobody had going in the 1st round. Of course, they also could have had George Kirby. Keoni Freakin Cavaco. Still Pi$$es me off.

I disagree. If you are going to rebuild, tear it down to the studs. Going half-way like the twins did just promotes perpetual mediocrity. The strategy to go for it or rebuild both look to concentrate assets in a given period of time. So, the question is ... would the twins have a better shot at post season success by investing in this Team as they did or building for the future. I agree you miss 100% of the time when you don't take a shot. This includes not taking a shot at amassing assets in a rebuild. They are going to let Lopez and Jeffers go for nothing. They might still trade Ryan but they could have had Tolle and Arias. They would have gotten something like Eyanson or LeGrange for Jeffers having already added Abel and Rojas. IMO, they would have had a better shot at being good for several years vs being mediocre this year and next. They were in a position last year to rebuild quickly and contend for several years and they blew it. Milwaukee and Tampa would have never missed this opportunity. Speaking of Milwaukee. They have 17 players that are going to produce greater than 1.5 WAR. One somewhat established player (Contreras) was acquired via trade. The were eight others that were acquired via trade but they were prospects/unproven players. They don't have any players that were acquired via free agency that will produce 1.5 WAR.. Tampa has one player (Martinez) that was acquired via free agency. They have no players that were traded for as established players. By established I mean ever produced 1.5 WAR or greater in a season. Now, no doubt, smart free agent signings are advantageous. At times the Rays have gotten great production for modest investment. The same for the Brewers. Their role however is far less essential that developing players acquired through drafting and prospect trades. The value of Trading for established players is tweaking a roster and filling a hole but it's only valuable if a team like the twins can develop young/inexpensive talent.

Does it make more sense to assume as you have that he would have been good here? We should make an assumption not based on what he did but what he would have done. He has been gone for 5 seasons and produced one good season. In the other four he produced 3.3 WAR. Yet, you want to make the case it was a terrible mistake to let him go. I would bet that had he been good, you would not have been to accepting of the premise we can't assume he would have been good here.

Milwaukee as well. It seemed to me to be about 50/50 in terms of TD posters favoring buying or selling but perhaps the majority wanted to "go for it". I was actually surprised there were many people that wanted to follow a strategy more focused on building a true contender. I guess I am a greedy fan. I don't care about constructing a team with a 25% chance of getting the last wildcard spot in a year when the AL is really weak. I want to follow an approach that can build a team that is really good for several years. We passed on an opportunity to get some impact prospects and we traded away a couple guys with the potential to be high impact players. Who knows, they all might turn out to never play at the major league level. We still gave up the potential to make the team a lot better for several years. We can't buy those players like some other teams. The opportunity we just passed up is how low revenue teams can create an opportunity.

They needed a pitcher like Berrios was the previous year (2021). The 2022 version that had an ERA of 5.23 would not necessarily have negated their need for a good SP although Berrios did give them 3 very good innings before being pulled in game 2.

They did not get anything back. This has been established but you can't look at it this simplistically. He had no value to the 2021 team given they were out of contention. He produced .9 WAR in 2022 which was his last season of control. That's as far as the trade comparison goes and he had no value. You can't lump in the rest of his career. If you want to look beyond the 1.5 seasons of control they gave up, you have to do that in the context of should they have extended him. His first year was good. (2.9 WAR) The last 3 seasons he has produced a total of 2.4 WAR. He could bounce back but right now I am very glad they did not extend him.

The theory that Cleveland drafted and developed was one of those assumptions people make without actually validating the theory. Cleveland traded for most of their pitching. Of course, they should be given credit for development but most of their pitching came via trade for prospects or guys that had made it to the majors but had not established themselves. I went back and looked at their 90-win teams after Falvey joined the organization. Here is a list of the pitchers that were the most productive and how they were acquired. Justin Masterson Trade - Had 200 IP in MLB but was unproven Ubaldo Jiménez Trade - Jiminez was well-established Corey Kluber Trade - Prospect Scott Kazmir Free Agent - 1 Year Deal Zach McAllister Trade - Prospect Carlos Carrasco Trade - Prospect Trevor Bauer Trade - Made it the majors but had negative WAR Andrew Miller Trade - Well-established Bryan Shaw Trade - made in to the majors but was unproven Danny Salazar Intl Draft Mike Clevinger Trade - Prospect Josh Tomlin Drafted Cody Allen Drafted Shane Bieber Draft Mike Clevinger Trade - Prospect Brad Hand Trade Triston McKenzie Drafted Emmanuel Clase Trade - Prospect Cal Quantrill Trade - Made it to the majors but was unproven Justin Masterson

They really whiffed on that trade. I will cut them a little slack because the national writers generally thought the Twins did very well in that trade. However, teams like the Twins just can't afford to whiff when trading an asset like Berrios. Cleveland has turned a lot of 1-1/2-year assets into 6-year assets and that's a big part of how they have put 90-win teams on the field far more often than most teams in the bottom half of revenue. It was a good move to trade him given we were out of that year and he was considerably below average the following year which was his last year of team control. He also has only had one good year since the extension so it certainly was not a mistake to let him go. However, the still had an opportunity to improve the club for 5-7 years and they whiffed.

I don't have to tell you that the lack of opportunity is part of the cost of a playoff push with a sub 500 team. They were going down a path of clearing spots for the young talent when Tom Pohlad decided to halt the rebuild they had started last year at the deadline. You are probably right that they will continue down this same path to mediocrity next year.

There have been a couple mental mistakes but that's to be expected when you drop a guy into to 1B having never played the position. He has actually fielded quite well.

I think we would all agree that this is a given. Success does not follow from drafting or trading poorly. Two teams could follow very similar practices and have very different outcomes. Therefore, we should be asking ourselves what Milwaukee / Cleveland / Tampa does differently from the Twins and other teams that have not been able to sustain much success. One of those things is they don't often let good players walk for nothing.

No doubt, it's easy to say they should have traded for the best-case scenario. It's not that easy. However, teams with a significant revenue disadvantage have to find a way to overcome the inability to buy talent. Milwaukee, Tampa, and especially the Guardians do not standout because they draft and develop a lot better than other modest revenue teams. They acquire a lot of prospects, some of them in the form of guys that have made it to the majors but not proven anything. It could be Trevor Megill for PTBNL or Freddy Peralta who they got for 1 year of Adam Lind. These teams don't let players go for nothing. There is an opportunity in down years to invest in the future. Trade away guys like Larnach and give Culpepper, Jenkins, Roden, Rodriguez, Martin, and even Fedko / Sabato a chance. It may not work but what were the odds this team was going to be a significant contender? You invest 1 year in prospects for the chance to build a team that can be good for several years. Instead, they traded away a couple high upside guys and could have acquired a couple other high upside guys. That potential may not be reached but executing that strategy separates the modest revenue teams that contend frequently form the many who do not.

You might be right but they would still have Lopez / Bradley / Kremer / Prielipp / Abel / Matthews / Rojas / Paredes and maybe Festa. Abel was very good before going down. Prielipp looks like he belongs and Rojas is finding his command. If Rojas improves his command, he has to be in the rotation. Even if they trade Ryan, they have 4 veterans if Ober stays. That normally would be good but not when 3 or of these young guys look to have considerably more upside than Ober.

Have you heard of a guy named Walker Jenkins?

Kendle with another good game. 2 hits and a walk. This guy has my attention.

I think you hit it on the head. However, this was not a Falvey/Zoll decision, IMO. I think this was an ownership decision based on Tom Pohlad's statements and that Falvey had started down a rebuild path. I think Falvey told him that changing direction in the middle of a rebuild was the dumbest thing they could possibly do and Pohlad showed him the door.

They are not going to fix the defensive woes overnight, but I can see a scenario where it improves a lot by this time next year. Lee is average at 3B and Lewis should be just fine at 1B with a little more time. We are weak up the middle which of course is a real problem. However, I saw quite a bit at Culpepper at AAA and the eye test says he is above average. We badly need Houston's offense to continue to improve. If he could be here by July next year, Culpepper slides to 2B and the INF defense is not stellar but it's above average and strong up the middle. Now, the OF. We all expect Jenkins is going to be here soon and that's going to be a significant upgrade. The other guy we really need is to make the leap to the majors is Rodriguez. He gives us a strong defensive corner OFer and a backup CFer that can hit same hand pitching and run the bases. If those two guys join Buxton our OF defense improve vastly. The speed these young guys will bring will also improve our base running. I pray these young guys make it because this team will be a lot more fun to watch.

This team was really well-positioned to rebuild quickly. They had 5 young starters that needed playing time (Matthews / Abel / Prielipp / Festa and Rojas. SS was a huge need and they had a guy near ready. The OF was in a similar state and they had multiple guys near ready. Culpepper and Rodriguez could have been on the big club by July 1. Ryan and Jeffers could have returned impact players. If the reports on Tolle / Arias are true, going for it probably made the team weaker for the next 7 years. They could have brought back a very good pitching prospect for Jeffers and of course, they also gave up a couple of high ceiling prospects in trade for Hoffman and Kremer. Milwaukee and Tampa do not make these mistakes. This was a very foolish / short-term focused decision by ownership even if the Twins do manage to get the last WC spot.