mikelink45

A lot of us were shocked by the Buxton treatment this year, from playing him with an injury to denying him his September call up. We were almost equally shocked to see Sano sent to A ball and when he returned people talked about him looking a little thinner, but then the season played on and before ending with another injury he resorted to the same 200 hitting occasional Home Run hitter. September call ups included Matt Belisle and a trade for Gimenez, more time for Johnny Field and not much excitement outside the young pitchers and that wonderful Opener experiment. Gonsalves, our top pitching prospect has stunk, Littell who has been called up a couple of times continues to stink (I know that they want to make that trade look good for the FO). Stewart has improved as we continue to pitch him against the mighty Tigers and Busenitz has demonstrated that AAAA is his best hope (when will they open that league?). Of course there is one rookie who looked really good early in the Season, but he could not even be called up to toss a couple BP sessions - Romero. Among hitters only Astudillo has appeared and that is because we have our original starter out for the season, our next starter out with a concussion, our first reserve traded for last years reserve and only Astudillo available for actually crouching behind the plate. No look at Rooker or Gordon or any other potential hitters. So how good is our player development? I just read the Athletics Matthew Kory in the season ending power ranking and his comments really jumped out at me. "One of the things that good teams do is draft talented players, develop them in the minors, and turn them into stars when they get to the big leagues. The Red Sox have done that with Mookie Betts and Xander Bogaerts. The Indians have done that with José Ramírez and Francisco Lindor. The Astros have done that with Carlos Correa and Alex Bregman (and George Springer) (and José Altuve). The Twins should have done that with Miguel Sanó and Byron Buxton… but they haven’t. Despite loads of talent, Sanó is barely playable and Buxton supposedly isn’t even ready for a September call-up. If you’re looking for the difference between Minnesota and every playoff team in baseball, that’s it in a nutshell."

Good question. I could find no rating or reaction to Navarro that made me think he had a chance.

Any advance in the medical area is a good advance. I hope he is looking at stretching, weights, general exercise. Although sometimes I think the injuries come from long stretches of inactivity - standing around in the field, sitting on the bench through long innings. I think some small on the field stretching to start each inning might pay dividends. The TJ surgery is a tough one. I might be having it in the next year and I do not pitch, I cannot throw overhand now. It just comes from wear and tear and pitchers put too much wear and tear on a system that did not evolve to handle that extreme motion over and over. Good luck - I do hope that someone comes up with a way to reduce the surgery, but pitching by its own definition is going to max out the shoulder and elbow.

I believe confused describes it. Imagine the first Opener to be named to the HOF!

Interesting list - I am too old to follow the Mike Trout is Mr everything line. Great Player - his teams never go anywhere. Sorry how valuable is he to getting to 2,3,4th place. I know - hit me with metrics, but give me Mookie Betts. Cy Young - Verlander. Sales breaks down every year when the season gets to the critical months while Verlander says give me the ball and we will win. A little Jack Morris there. But Verlander is the guy on want on my staff. AL reliever - Blake Treinen. The A's have a terrible rotation and a great pen and Treinen has his team in first place. Yelich and Arenado are tied for NL MVP for me. They are doing more for teams with less. I have no arguments with the rest of the NL, which must mean I do not follow them as much as I do the AL. Thanks for posting your choices and letting me be a contrarian.

Nice response. I completely agree on Odorizzi. Other than his no-hit bid, he has been dynamite the first time through the lineup and then is questionable. Relief is perfect for him.

Okay what happens at catcher in the next two years? First we have the veteran – Castro – coming back from his injury. Not a great bat, but we got him for his framing. Is his framing still so important and more important is it still better than Garver? Garver started out with lots of question marks. So many doubted his defense, so much that the team was willing to sacrifice his bat for Bobby Wilson. But Wilson was traded – is Garver better? We added Gimenez who, like Wilson, has a very questionable bat, but supposedly is good at defense and in the clubhouse. BA 260, OBP 330. Then along comes Astudillo – chubby little guy that looks like a lifetime minor leaguer – and he becomes a Minnesota legend. Chubby, smiling, always hustling – kind of like a guy named Puckett. He hits, he does not strike out and he does not walk. The announcers question Molitor’s faith in him behind the plate. I cannot judge that. In 19 games his average is 327 and his OBP is 351. In the minors or best prospect is Rortvedt #24 for the Twins 262AB, 331 OBP. The projection for him is 2021. I cannot find any other prospects that get much of a conversation so I have to conclude that there is no one else ready for MLB. David Banuelos is in A ball and seems like the next on the list. Among FA catchers is Matt Wieters who has disappointed two teams so far and hopefully will not become a Twin. Yasmani Grandal, 30, is another FA. He has 95 hits and a 235 BA for the Dodgers. Jonathon LuCroy is now 33 and has bounced around a lot of teams in recent years. A good batter, but I am not sure he fits the Twins profile. And then there is the Braves – Kurt Suzuki, who had 77 hits and batted 271 for the braves this year – we have already had the Suzuki experience. So who is our catcher – and I know I am asking this with Garver suffering a concussion which could throw all these projections off. • Castro • Garver • Astudillo • Gimenez • Rordvedt Do we trade, do we go with what we have? Does Castro get his starting position back? Help me figure this out.

I like your rotation, but I am still skeptical about Pineda until he shows what he has. I like Mejia in the BP, but if Pineda fails he is in the rotation. In AAA lets hope Thorpe and Wells out perform Gonsalves and Little. What about Kohl Stewart? DFA, Traded???

I suspect that Kiriloff will be kept in the minors for another year. I wrote a who's on first blog http://twinsdaily.com/blog/1028/entry-11216-who-will-be-on-first/ and I have Austin as second choice behind Mauer.

I hope they come up with a real closer. I do not think Hildenberg is the right person to be the 9th inning designee. Thanks for finding so many positives in a week that saw us beat the Yankees and lose to the Royals!

I know that pitch to contact is old school, old Twins, but has anyone else read the summaries of the Oakland patchwork rotaion? The words Pitch to Contact keep coming up. I know batting is now K or HR, but if the pitchers are also K or HR what do we have? Something has to change because what we have seen in September is without hope. If the new metrics aren't working do what Oakland has done and create some new metrics.

So hard to get excited any more. Tom, thanks for continuing to inform us.

Dozier has now been benched by the Dodgers. He is not going to be in demand in FA.

Well we will not agree on this, but I would have used any of the three you listed and anyone else not asleep in the BP. I do not leave a ninth inning reliever in because when his is good he is better than the others. Because if he is not good the game is lost.

I am trying to remember which of these teams has the second worst record in the league! As BBAM wrote - who are our next pitchers? If this is what the team considers the best of the rookie prospects how to they rank? From bad to worst - Kohl Stewart DeJong Gonsalves Littell Would Aaron Slegers have been any better? Are any of these pitchers showing enough to say that they can just move on from rookie jitters? With our BP looking gassed there is a lot to be done for next year.

What a rotation I have gone through all but DH in my thought process on next year and I really do not care who is DH since it seems like the Twins like to move it around. But the rotation is the real issue. Bleacher reports had this reflection on Starting Pitching - https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1187854-is-starting-pitcher-the-most-important-position-for-building-a-successful-team . Very seldom do people attend the game because there will be a great match up of closers. We still look at Verlander, Kluber, Severino, Greinke as marquee names for any game. So who starts for the Twins in 2019 and 2020? I can easily write in Berrios. Is there anyone who compares? Gibson has turned the corner and we are still wondering if it is real, but yes, he is number two. Ervin Santana was a wonderful story, but the emphasis is on was! He is gone, I would almost guarantee it, but I guarantee nothing. Jake Odorizzi had a near no-hitter recently so we forget how mediocre he has been. 6 – 10 4.41 ERA 1,32 Whip, 30 games, 155 innings – an average of 5 innings per start. Yes, he will be in the rotation next year. Then there are the September debuts: Kohl Stewart – six games, 24 innings, ERA+ 81, 1.78 Whip, 5.47 ERA. Prospect #28. Aldalberto Mejia – 5 games, 2.01 ERA, 1.16 WHIP Aaron Slegers - 3 games, 5.68 ERA which is lower than his MLB career 6.11, 1.42 WHIP Michael Pineda who benefits from being injured all year and then injured again instead of making a Sep call up He is 40 – 41 with a 4.40 ERA, and a 1.19 WHIP. He will take one of the five spots, even if he has not earned it. Chase De Jong – the FO acquired him so he has a front of the line position and he gave up no runs in his first appearance. His MLB record has him with an ERA of 5.57 and a WHIP of 1.51. Smoke and mirrors so far for MN. Stephen Gonsalves who has dominated the minor league reports for the last four years has stunk in his debut – 9.39 ERA, within 1 of Belisle, and a 2.67 WHIP. Awful. Is it real? He is rated prospect #5. If not for Gonsalves and Belisle Littell would be on the stink listing with 8.44 ERA and 2.06 Whip. Zack was prospect number 20 which was a downgrade from his previous ranking at #11. If not them, who? Among the top 30 prospects – which include the above pitchers is Brusdar Gratol, our number 4 prospect. He is 20 and has proven himself at all the levels he has pitched at. MLB.com says he comes up in 2021. If the above pitchers continue there stink ratings he could be 2020. Blake Enlow is prospect number 9, he is 20, and projected for 2021. He could push 2020. Lewis Thorpe is prospect number 10 and why he did not get a September call up is a mystery to me. He could be in the mix for next year. He was 8 – 7 with an era of 3.54 and a WHIP of 1.24 in 2018. Jordan Balazovic is prospect number 30 and projected for 2021. We also have some pitchers that were acquired in trades this summer, but none seem MLB ready, yet. Then there are the FA. I will not project signing them, but Patrick Corbin of the AZ Diamondbacks hits the market at age 29. His stats look really good. He would be a good signing. Dallas Keuchel of the Astros is a dream, but one I think we should pass on. I am not as convinced as others that he has the ACE potential for the future. Clayton Kershaw – pardon me, I cannot type while I am laughing. With all this information and some experience with seeing how this FO works (or doesn’t) this is my guess. 2019 • Berrios • Gibson • Odorizzi • Pineda • Mejia • DeJong 2020 • Berrios • Gibson • DeJong • Thorpe • Gratol • Wells

You misunderstand. I am fine with Hildy, but when he is not right or make that when any closer is not right, it should be okay to bring someone else in.

Interesting to see the top pitchers. The stats seem to indicate a big drop off from the top five to the honorable mentions. But what really jumps out is that Gonsalves was number two after two years as number one and another year at two. Gonsalves has a steady set of career MiLB baseball stats. So it raises the big question - why is he struggling in MLB. Not a little, but a lot. I can understand him needing to adjust to MLB, but he has looked awful. I remember Berrios did his first year too. What needs to be done for the transition. Is Gonsalves a AAAA pitcher? And then the question goes to Wells. When does he get his shot? Will he be able to move in to the rotation with more success than Gonsalves? Gonsalves ERA is 9.39 which would be the worst on the team without the leadership of Belisle and his 10.45. I am just concerned with how we get minor league pitchers to be MLB pitchers. I admit that the stats on Rookie starting pitchers is pretty poor, but Tampa Bay has Ryan Yarbrough https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/y/yarbrry01.shtml and the Angels have Jaimie Barria https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/barrija01.shtml who are doing well in that role.

Perez owns the Twins. In the first game the radio announcers gave us a look at how he hits against us and it is ridiculous. Now I also have to ask the Twins pitching brain trust how they left Hildenberg in to pitch to Perez. He gets one out, but then a double, a single, single, walk (intentional so we could have the player who hits the best against us come up) and then Hildy still pitches against him. We only had a one run lead, he gave that up and then melted down and with a bullpen bristling with arms he was still in. When did MLB teams come up with this strategy of never pulling a closer? When did Hildy become our closer? Baffling. KC is having fun, the Twins are not. But our starter gave us quality, Astudillo made two outstanding fielding plays, got three hits and a walk. Don't give me the Gimenez leadership story - play Willans the rest of the way.

I expect Rooker to be 1B so he was in that discussion. I think we have enough natural outfielders to move him from that consideration.

I know that the moderator wants to limit the discussion, but in fact, this thread really does represent the frustration of the fans and is a healthy outlet for that frustration.

I am back from guiding a hiking trip in Michigan where I got to watch the Detroit Tigers play a few games against the Cardinals - fun to see Gardenhire. As I watched their struggles to find the right Outfielders for the future I was interested in the various players that they put in and how each had different potentials and strengths. But it got me thinking about the Twins. For the last two years we have been led to think of the outfield as Rosario/Buxton/Kepler. But is it those three for the future? I know we have had LaMarre and Field out there during the year and they do not excite me. We have used Adrianza in the OF as well as Astudillo, and Taylor Motter. Logan Morrison was even in the OF for two games. And of course we have had Jake Cave and Robbie Grossman playing extensively in the OF. No minor leaguers were brought up this fall to get any MLB time in the OF but Wade seems like a candidate and eventually we will have more minor leaguers move up to challenge I hope. But what is the immediate future - the next two years? Who will be have out there when we turn the corner? Start with the Big Three Byron Buxton has had a lost year. He is 24 and has been with the team for parts of 4 years. His defense is out of this world, his slash line for the four years is 230/285/387 and we all know the drama that was 2018. 6.8 WAR Eddie Rosario seems to be the one who stepped up this year, leading the team in all the batting categories and playing a steady, if unspectacular OF. In his four years he has a slash line of 280/312/471. 8.6 WAR Max Kepler has not regressed, he has not progressed, he is not a star, is he a starter? His slash for the same four years is 235/314/421 and he has an accumulated WAR of 6.7. Before looking at other options - if I take the lazy route and just add and average these three players we would have an OF with a 248/303/408 slash and 1.8 WAR. Not good enough for a team that wants to be a champion. The two players on the team that look like our next OF candidates - Sorry Adrianza and Astudillo - are Grossman and Cave. Two players who elicit very different responses from TD fans. Robbie Grossman has been our number 4 OF for three years and has played in 331 games (DH and 1B included). His slash line for MN 262/365/397 which is actually a good line for a number 4 if we do not consider his OF range and defense. Jake Cave is our find of the year, after Motter and LaMarre and numerous other dumpster dives we were able to get Cave out of the Yankees and he has produced. 265/311/487 slash and 1.7 WAR for 76 games. He hustles and looks good but his fielding is not as good as some might claim. In the long run, when it comes to defense, Buxton has no worries. That is five players for starting and bench. Are they the right five and in the right order? The 40 man roster still has Zack Granite who had a lost year and Johnny Field. Granite earned 0.3 WAR in 93 ABs in 2017 and played better CF than all but Buxton. In 2018 he played in 68 games before ending his year with injury. He batted 211/282/245, He is 25 years old. Johnny Field has been in 13 games so far with a slash line of 071/100/171. If we look at his entire 2018 year he has 75 games and 193/231/330. I hope to not see him on the 40 next year. The next question is who is in the minors who might be up soon? MLB.com has a top 30 for each team - http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2018?list=min Our number two is Alex Kiriloff - how long before he comes up - will it be in the next two years? If he does Kepler better watch out because RF is his best position. Trever Larnach is in his first year, but already prospect #6. Too early to project him as a Twin. Akil Baddoo is #12 and so far has been a CF player. LaMonte Wade is #13 and seems the most ready for 2019. LaMonte Wade Age 24 has a minor league slash of 257/360/380 reminiscent of Grossman, but better in the field. He does not have power, but controls the plate. Alex Kiriloff is moving so fast he cannot be left out of the discussion for 2019 and definitely should be looked at for 2020. 348/392/578 is a slash line that cannot be ignored. Yes he is young, but you might notice that Atlanta and the Nationals both had players as young as him starting in their OFs this year. Akil Baddoo is 20, but could move fast and be a factor in 2020. 243/351/419. Trevor Larnach is 21, but is in his first year - 303/390/500 is an impressive start - 2020 is an outside possibility if the Twins are aggressive. Gilberto Celestino - just 19. He is our #14 prospect but should not be in this two year window. Gabriel Maciel is also just 19 and ranked #17. At least three years away. Luke Raley can play 1B or OF and is ranked #19. 275/350/471 He has the advantage of being someone the FO traded for - he is one of theirs and is considered a Grinder - Molitor will like that. Jacob Pearson is the last OF ranked in the top 30 Twins Prospects - He is age 20 with the Kernels this year and should be three years away. So that is the assortment we can work with in our system. Not counting more dumpster diving the following are Free Agent OFs for 2018. Bryce Harper - forget it Adam Jones - Not worth it Brett Gardner - he is already 35 Nick Markakis - he too is 35 Carlos Gonsalves - 33 coming from the light air of CO Michael Brantley - 32 - it would be nice to take him from Cleveland Steven Pearce - 36 - no thanks Lonnie Chisenhall - 30 - another Indian on the market Matt Joyce - 35. NO NO NO Curtis Granderson - 38, another old man, no thanks Carlos Gomez - 33, no we have already had him once Marwin Gonsalves - 30 - from Houston, interesting player. Cameron Maybin - 30 - nope Jon Jay - 34 - no interest Chris Young - 35, Angels, no Rajai Davis - 38 - another Cleveland OF - we could fill up with these guys, but no thanks Leonys Martin - 31, Guess which team - you Cleveland Gregor Blanco - 35 from SF. I say no to any over 32. Shane Robinson - 34 - Yankees Eric Young - 34 - Angels Brandon Barnes - 33- ANOTHER INDIAN! Jose Bautista - 38 - yes 38, no Austin Jackson 32 from the Mets Ben Revere - 31 - No retreads Some more with no resume, no interest on the list! Now comes the hard part - arrange them as you would like - this is the order I expect: 2019 Rosario Cave Kepler Buxton Grossman Raley 2020 Rosario Kiriloff Cave Buxton Raley Baddoo Where is Kepler, Wade...I expect trades. I would rather have Wade that Grossman in 2019, but I do not see the Twins making that move, I see him traded before being rostered. I am trying to guess at the Twins as much as looking at what I would like to see. Have at it.

I have written in a blog about SS that Polanco is a bad fielder, last night was another example. 12 errors in 61 games and it would be at least one more if they got the call right on his miss of Gimenez throw to second. He also had no hustle and cannot claim to be tired since he missed half the season. Nice bat, 2B is open Logan Forsythe is reducing his average after a nice quick start with the club and Polanco should slide over here. SS is too valuable for him to be our starter. Busenitz is really disappointing, the opener idea is a farce, Gonsalves has disappointed. Magill is not the answer. Play Astudillo to entertain the fans. Jake Cave is the one who is really standing out right now. He continues to hustle and that is fun to watch. Is Buxton watching?

I like the essay, but it raises many questions for me. Leadership is a real thing, but we hire a manager and 9 coaches to lead, we have Kelly, Morneau, Hunter, Hawkins, Cuddyer, and Kaat to provide insight and leadership. http://m.twins.mlb.com/min/roster/coaches/ And the FO also has Oliva, Morris, Blyleven, Hrbek, and Carew listed as special assistants. https://www.mlb.com/twins/team/front-office We have had Mauer, Dozier, Wilson in addition to our to leadership specialists to provide veteran insights. I keep thinking of the "Swinging A's. The only non-Yankee team to win three WS in a row and five division championships. "The Swingin’ A’s did it despite a clubhouse chemistry that could require a hazmat suit. Hours before Game 1 of the ’74 World Series, for example, players kept insisting to reporters that tales of their infighting were greatly exaggerated. Then Fingers and Odom started brawling right there in the clubhouse. Fingers required six stitches in his head. Odom wound up with a sprained ankle." https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/05/30/oakland-athletics-were-perfect-misfits-in-the-early-1970s/ Leadership is great, but Belisle and Gimenez have been with us with our strange success last year and our back to the pack record this year - the team is 152 - 156 with their leadership and Gimenez has given us 0.6 WAR for the time with the Twins and Belisle -0.8 WAR. Gimenez 218/345/391 and Belisle 3 - 3 5.67 in 81 innings in 83 game with an ERA+ of 78. Imagine their leadership potential if they were any good. Right now I give Jake Cave the badge for leadership because of his hustle, his work ethic and results or even Astudillo for his positive energy, hustle, and smile. Of course I can see the Twins adding another two coaches - we will call them Leadership coaches!

I would love to have some team blow up the current concept - go with Whitey Ball - the old Cards, or the A's of Rickey and Reggie, or the Go - Go White Sox of Aparicio and Fox. Get on base, hit 'em where they ain't, steal, hit and run, field, and play fast ball. It might just put some of these follow the trend teams in shock!