TheLeviathan
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Everything posted by TheLeviathan
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No, pushing and punching usually continues because it's a physical game. Football is a violent game and sometimes that persists beyond the whistle. That's not an apples-to-apples comparison. Baseball interrupts a non-physical game to start altercations about things that aren't even rules violations! The only equivalent I can remember in football to what baseball does is when Owens celebrated on the Dallas 50 yard line and got smeared. That would be a fair comparison.
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I would rip the news, but the rest aren't equivalent issues. In other sports there is thuggery and brawling (the vast majority of which I don't condone, but at least understand) but it is almost exclusively in retaliation for rule violations the refs didn't catch. Only in baseball do they punish celebrating on the field or other made-up rules because of awful cases of butthurt. It doesn't happen in football. (The league fines, but only for egregious celebrating) It doesn't happen in hockey. (Goal celebrations are common) And it doesn't happen in basketball unless it's egregious. ONLY in baseball does celebrating an achievement warrant violence. ONLY in baseball does a brawl erupt because you did something perfectly within the rules. (Like..bunt against a shift. Or steal a base with a lead) So no, I won't rip the other sports. Baseball is uniquely obnoxious in this regard.
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Shame part of this thread was lost. We were just getting into what an egregious act it is for professionals to flip their bat and kids might take after them. (Truly horrifying) But it's perfectly acceptable to accost and assault those you don't agree with to teach them a lesson about celebrating. Maybe all my extensive work with kids has created a blind spot...but I'm pretty sure those same impressionable youngsters watch major leaguers pout and throw baseballs 90 mph at each other because their feelings are hurt. So we're ok with kids picking up the "violence is a good way to solve your problems" message as long as they aren't showy about their success?
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Weird to see entire threads or portions of threads disappear. -
That was the most thorough dismantling I've ever seen in a 1-0 overtime game.
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The unwritten rules are literally millionaires playing like kindergarteners. It's systematized excuses to not act like an adult.
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Better bench option, so good move.
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Neither does ignoring it or minimizing our expectations. This isn't a "pull yourself up by the boot straps and stop complaining" message I'm communicating. I get the systematic issues. I get the added difficulty that causes. I reject conservative messages that it's so easy to do. I've seen with my eyes how difficult it truly is to some tragic consequences. Liberalism, by and large, avoids discussing anything that would be controversial about race for fear of losing a big part of their voting base. You yourself are trying to say you hold people accountable for their behavior and would talk bluntly about unacceptable, uncivil behavior but the truth is you go and hide behind the "systems" again. It's both. It's an ongoing systemic problem but it's also that segments of our population (some would argue as earlier that liberal policy actually lead to much of this) shun education, child rearing, non-violence, and generally civil/acceptable behavior. And again, I've seen this firsthand where there was actual opportunity but the larger pull of culture lead to awful misogyny, recreational violence, dismissal of education, etc. The only fix has to address both. Unfortunately most voices that speak out against the latter are shunned from public discourse. Ironically, in my opinion, for racist reasons.
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I'm generally in agreement, however, I'd rather the team only retaliate for ACTUAL rule violations. Particularly ones that could injure. Doing something that hurts someone's feelings like show-boat? Please. You get paid a crap ton of money to act like a professional. If someone else isn't, let that team deal with it or deal with it yourself by beating them on the scoreboard.
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Im glad I didn't hear that. I may have threw the remote through the TV. It's obnoxious that anyone would believe this much less get vocal support from others around the league. The only people that need to be beaned anymore are those perpetuating this nonsense.
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Very true, but even if we can't all aspire to the same opportunities there are fundamental issues in several cultures that are causing as much or more problems than systemic racism. There will always be listlessness and irresponsibility, but when it becomes overwhelmingly and disproportionately part of a culture is an equally serious problem. To me there is something truly racist in the idea of holding back criticism because you lower the bar of acceptable behavior.
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http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/bo-porter-leaves-astros-dugout-to-confront-jed-lowrie-over-unwritten-rules-violation-075115326.html I believe this piece of evidence is numbered 6,899,987 in the long list of why baseball would be better off doing away with this nonsense.
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No but as John mentioned - they did acquire him in a trade, which means at some point they thought he wasn't awful. At some stage in this process the Twins goofed. (Or many stages one could argue)
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Indeed. Makes that other quote look tame in some ways.
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I would argue talk of one without the other is a hopeless pursuit of a solution. It doesn't matter which of those two issues you ignore, if you choose to ignore one then you aren't part of the solution in my eyes. We need to address the systemic underpinnings of racial issues but we also have to have some courage to address the responsibility of people today to fix their own issues contributing to those systemic challenges as well. Doing one without the other (of either approach) leads to nothing in my opinion.
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Article: Has the clock run out on Jared Burton?
TheLeviathan replied to ScottyB's topic in Twins Daily Front Page News
The most frustrating thing to me is that the Twins have long been very good at filling out their bullpen in cheap, replaceable ways.....so why do they insist on holding on to guys past their peak value? Burton is another case of that. -
Perhaps it wasn't said, but it's also not out of character with his beliefs. Here's a little more evidence of that: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/lyndon-johnson-civil-rights-racism
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That LBJ quote is about as damning as I could possibly imagine a quote being. I have enormous problems with The Great Society - in my opinion it's the quintessential piece of liberal policy. Great ideals, noble missions, truly at the heart of what it means to be a good citizen - everything that makes liberalism great. And then....written without a care for how effective it will be in achieving those ends and ultimately being a bigger burden on those ideals than a path to achieving them, but nonetheless glorified without merit and protected irrationally on the basis of it's intents and not effects. In other words, everything about why liberalism is so damn frustrating.
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I disagree here. I think we, as a whole, need to get over the evil of generalizing. Generalizing isn't racist. It's how we use stereotypes and generalizations that make them racist. Somehow, along the way, any generalization (no matter how accurate) has become taboo for discussion.
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I think what's tripping me up is that you seem to be talking about your average citizen who is anti-Obama, but Aaron's comments were about Congress. You didn't seem to differentiate so I took you to be defending Aaron, but that doesn't appear to be correct. Am I close?
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Cmon now. I'm sure there are bigots, misogynists, and all sorts of other awful people in politics but this series of anecdotes and Republican Z listers is hardly evidence of opposition to Obama being driven by racism. If a conservative came on here and claimed that the reason Bush got blocked on things was because of hatred for Christians I'd scoff too. The politic divide is happening on all levels of government largely amongst a bunch of old white guys. This is a sad argument couched in a real problem.
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Well said. Both parties and both ideologies drive me nuts on this. Liberals are so busy blaming the systems and fanning the flames of racism that we basically can't have a genuine conversation. Conservatives are so busy blaming people that have the deck stacked heavily against them that they refuse to look at how the systems could be changed or how racism has shaped the landscape to this point. It should be possible to acknowledge the racism that has, and does, still make things difficult for people and that we need to do things to correct this, while at the same time not completely excusing every difficulty to racism or "the system". I can tell you from my experience that there is more than just latent racism that is complicating things for some cultures/races.
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Aaron is absolutely right that racism still exists on many levels in our society and we have a long way to go. And nothing he said justified the letters he got. But the implication that Republican blocks of Democrat policies are evidence of that existing racism is where his argument went off the tracks. If that's a factor at all (and I'm not sure how you could assert such a thing with anything more than wild speculation) it pales in comparison to the fact the two parties are sniping at each other like this on all levels of government all over the country with leaders that are largely still white. (There in demographic representation may have been a better place to start rather than that limp argument)
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6-6 and Other Numbers of Interest
TheLeviathan replied to stringer bell's topic in Minnesota Twins Talk
The walks and patient approach this year is a noticeable difference. Any insight from you guys that this was a designed effort by the coaches/Bruno? If so, kudos to them. I think it's the single biggest factor behind the team's flukey scoring given the other statistics. -
Someone needs to get out and work with Hicks on going back on a ball. In my life as a Twins fan I may have been spoiled with good CFs enough to know what a guy lost out there looks like. Every time it's over his head they might as well slap the Benny Hill music on. The KC offense sure made us all feel a lot better about the pitching, that's for sure. As for the offense: they are hitting .240 with a .712 OPS as a team. In the bottom third in HRs, SBs, and TBs. Frankly, the team pulling out runs like this is demonstrably flukey. They need to pick up some of those other facets or we're going to see scoring dip in a hurry.
