old nurse

[quote name=USAFChief People make way too much of this.[/quote] What else do you do when the team has lousy pitching, lousy clutch hitting and thus a losing season?

Considering the Twins past wishing they would sign an ace pitcher is at best wishful thinking. In the past they have reclaimed a couple of starting pitchers who had a few down years. Morris had a couple bad years before the Twins took him on. Pavano and Blyleven fit this mode, too. Are there any pitchers out there that the Twins can trade spare parts for that fit this mode. The Twins have traded spare parts and received Mayes and Loshe. Valencia, Carrol and Casilla fit the parts that the Twins in the past have turned into viable starters. One could hope that Ryan turns his eye again. There really are no Twins in their fifth year of service that the Twins can trade for building blocks of the future. The Twins are kind of hamstrung by the trades or lack thereof by Bill Smith. Nothing came of the Santana trade. Cuddyer, Kubel and Hunter were not traded. In the past Ryan traded these players for building blocks of the future. This did not happen with Smith. Time will tell with the draft picks. Unfortunately the Twins have had better luck with the trades than their draft.

They are out of it now unless Liriano pitches lights out the rest of the year, Pavano comes back after the all star break as a more than solid #2, Diamonds arm does not fall off, Blackburn comes back as a solid #3, and Morneau has his brain heal miraculously to pre concussion. They might be auditioning some for next year, but it looks to me like piece it together one game at a time without burning out the pitchers.

With what the Astros got for Lee don't hold your breathe on a trade for any value.

Thirteen hits, a walk and only three runs. You are just joking with your comment of today being an example of good offense?

Gardy goes with his "heart" or "gut" or whatever, instead of a simple statistic like OBP. Without decent starting pitching it does not matter what statistic Gardy uses. The more the "advanced" statistic will not change the caliber of Twins player. When Gardy has enough starting pitching his gut feelings done by observing what the player does has won enough games to win some pennants.

While there are hopes and dreams of selling, that has not been Ryan's MO. Trade something of value to get value in return. The one exception was Kyle Lohse. The Twins have available at best bit parts for other teams. That will not net a starter unless Ryan can steal one. (Mays for Kelley et al.) The Span talk is exercise unless someone really blows Ryan away. He has never sold vital assets at that point in years of service

Usually the Twins trade their players in the 5th year of the service with the club. The exception being the players for whatever reason they don't personally like. Lohse, Young and Garza come to mind. The offer would have to be so far in the Twins favor to make a trade that I can't see it happening. The whole details of the proposed trade last year to Washington were never leaked. Storen for Span straight up was not going to happen, look up Seth Stohs story for the details. They still stand.

Because they think they can draft two better players with the draft picks they would get for Grienke. No I am not serious.

I think if the Twins had a decent pitching staff and were in contention nobody would care what his salary was nor that he sold shampoo and beer on the side. Winning cures a lot grumbling. As a career his splits would indicate he is about the same home or away so you can't really say 6 years of the Metrodome inflated his numbers. y Direct Link · Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ? [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table, width: 1] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]I[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]Split[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]G[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]GS[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]PA[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]AB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]R[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]H[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]2B[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]3B[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]HR[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]RBI[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]SB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]CS[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]BB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]SO[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]BA[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]OBP[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]SLG[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]OPS[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]TB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]GDP[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]HBP[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]SH[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]SF[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]IBB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]ROE[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals sorttable_sorted sort_col, bgcolor: #FFFFAA, align: center]BAbip ▾[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip, bgcolor: #DADCDE, align: center]tOPS+[/TH] [/TD][TD=class: tooltip]Away [TD=align: right]478[/TD] [TD=align: right]457[/TD] [TD=align: right]2096[/TD] [TD=align: right]1819[/TD] [TD=align: right]289[/TD] [TD=align: right]590[/TD] [TD=align: right]129[/TD] [TD=align: right]8[/TD] [TD=align: right]49[/TD] [TD=align: right]277[/TD] [TD=align: right]22[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]253[/TD] [TD=align: right]221[/TD] [TD=align: right].324[/TD] [TD=align: right].405[/TD] [TD=align: right].485[/TD] [TD=align: right].890[/TD] [TD=align: right]882[/TD] [TD=align: right]49[/TD] [TD=align: right]5[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]18[/TD] [TD=align: right]49[/TD] [TD=align: right]16[/TD] [TD=align: right].345[/TD] [TD=align: right]103[/TD] [/TD][TD=class: tooltip]Home [TD=align: right]509[/TD] [TD=align: right]483[/TD] [TD=align: right]2108[/TD] [TD=align: right]1821[/TD] [TD=align: right]293[/TD] [TD=align: right]588[/TD] [TD=align: right]104[/TD] [TD=align: right]9[/TD] [TD=align: right]39[/TD] [TD=align: right]261[/TD] [TD=align: right]16[/TD] [TD=align: right]11[/TD] [TD=align: right]251[/TD] [TD=align: right]203[/TD] [TD=align: right].323[/TD] [TD=align: right].404[/TD] [TD=align: right].454[/TD] [TD=align: right].858[/TD] [TD=align: right]827[/TD] [TD=align: right]72[/TD] [TD=align: right]11[/TD] [TD=align: right]2[/TD] [TD=align: right]23[/TD] [TD=align: right]42[/TD] [TD=align: right]15[/TD] [TD=align: right].343[/TD] [TD=align: right]97[/TD] [/TABLE] No one ball player is ever worth a quarter of the team's payroll unless the farm system is cranking out two decent players a year. The Twins are not doing the latter.

I guess this shows the Twins have AAAA pitching. To bad there are no aaaa leagues

My whole point wasn't to blame Ryan for everything, but the Twins are bad because of an organizational failure, not because of one bad GM's failure. There is plenty of blame to go around and it started during the first Ryan regime. The mistake of Ryan was to never figure out how to draft and develop pitchers. The pitching cupboard was pretty thin for the 2007 season. The prime time to trade Santana would have been at the trade deadline. Ryan's history of getting good value for his stars would have been a much better thing for the Twins than leaving it to the inexperience of Smith.

Bert said on a radio show that Blackburn is overthrowing the ball. Plenty of video out there, plenty of knowledgeable people out there watching, yet the mechanics go unfixed. Perhaps the pitching staff needs a psychotherapist.

Baxendale signed. I read he is going to E-town. Perhaps he will work out as a starter. Can't do any worse than Blackburn.

But how will the team know if they have a good long reliever without Blackburn?

Waldrop looks like by the numbers to be pitching better. We will see if it continues up here. For sure he get another shot at major league hitters on July 1 unless the Twins find a proven pitcher..

They have plenty equally bad pitchers, they don't need that guy.

Some event will have to occur where all or most the team is exposed to gamma rays or some other kind of radioactive event, thus leading to at least half of the team developing super human strength and some baseball beneficial super powers. I did not know it was a baseball superpower to be able to throw the ball over the plate wiith some form of movement that makes it somewhat difficult to hit the ball? I heard that many teams have players that can do that. Some teams I hear have someone who can throw the ball over the plate so well that it is real hard to hiit the ball when they throw it. Perhaps the gamma rays ought to hit the scouts so they can find decent pitchers.

[ The two people off the top of my head that did better with other teams than they did with the Twins under Vavra are Delmon Young (who did have streaks of greatness with the twins, and still has a long way to go to prove he can be a consistent great hitter) and JJ Hardy [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table row_summable] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting, align: left]Year[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting]Age[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc show_partial_when_sorting]Tm[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc]Lg[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]G[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]PA[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]AB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]R[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]H[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]2B[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]3B[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]HR[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]RBI[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]SB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]CS[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]BB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]SO[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals]BA[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals]OBP[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals]SLG[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals]OPS[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip hide_non_quals]OPS+[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]TB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]GDP[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]HBP[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]SH[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]SF[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip]IBB[/TH] [TH=class: tooltip sort_default_asc, align: left]Pos[/TH] [/TABLE] [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table row_summable] [TR=class: full, bgcolor: #def] [TD=align: left]2012[/TD] [TD=align: right]26[/TD] [TD=align: left]DET[/TD] [TD=align: left]AL[/TD] [TD=align: right]63[/TD] [TD=align: right]251[/TD] [TD=align: right]238[/TD] [TD=align: right]18[/TD] [TD=align: right]62[/TD] [TD=align: right]14[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]5[/TD] [TD=align: right]24[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]8[/TD] [TD=align: right]50[/TD] [TD=align: right].261[/TD] [TD=align: right].295[/TD] [TD=align: right].382[/TD] [TD=align: right].677[/TD] [TD=align: right]84[/TD] [TD=align: right]91[/TD] [TD=align: right]7[/TD] [TD=align: right]4[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]0[/TD] [TD=align: left]D7[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE=class: sortable stats_table row_summable] [TR=class: stat_total] [TD=colspan: 4, align: left]MIN (4 yrs)[/TD] [TD=align: right]497[/TD] [TD=align: right]1977[/TD] [TD=align: right]1845[/TD] [TD=align: right]233[/TD] [TD=align: right]530[/TD] [TD=align: right]106[/TD] [TD=align: right]7[/TD] [TD=align: right]47[/TD] [TD=align: right]273[/TD] [TD=align: right]22[/TD] [TD=align: right]14[/TD] [TD=align: right]93[/TD] [TD=align: right]333[/TD] [TD=align: right].287[/TD] [TD=align: right].324[/TD] [TD=align: right].429[/TD] [TD=align: right].753[/TD] [TD=align: right]103[/TD] [TD=align: right]791[/TD] [TD=align: right]64[/TD] [TD=align: right]17[/TD] [TD=align: right]1[/TD] [TD=align: right]21[/TD] [TD=align: right]15[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] I don't think Young is doing much different this year than he did with the Twins

Part of the reason for the Twins lack of pitching has to do with what they get in return for their pitching in trades. Kyle Lohse, Matt Garza, and Johan Santana trades brought nothing back for pitching help. Their record on drafting starting pitching was compensated by their ability to trade spare parts for pitchers that worked out. Lately they can't do either. In the pen it seems like they find half of their talent elsewhere. For every Jesse Crain there is a Matt Guerrier. I do not recall any recent pitching prospects they traded that you went "Oh no" later.

This reminds me of the Boof Bonser situation, quite frankly. Bonser was more of a head case due to weight. Being heavy killed his endurance. He was ok as a rookie. After losing weight he lost something. Liriano pitched well when the games didn't count this year. The Twins being so far out the games don't count for much, Liriano is pitching better.

86-89 they played with 24. Did not remember baseball being any worse for it. Now if it were 30 man rosters rather than 40 it could get real interesting.

Consider for 2011 the Twins paid 5 million for the rights, 3 million in salary and .5 million to get rid of Hardy and get Nishi. Hardy's salary was 5.8 million. The remainder of the money could have been spent on a Cris Camuano or better type of pitcher. The end result would have been a far more successful season. 8 less starts by Slowey, Duensing in the pen could have made for a far different season.