tony&rodney

Buxton is a risk. He will not bring back a player of his talent. The Twins are sticking their necks out for a 7/$80 million contract. The incentives would not be a risk. Buxton has not slowed down. The injuries are not really a sure prediction of the next decade, but there is risk. Both sides have valid points in the sign/unaffordable-trade discussion. I would think that now is a good opportunity for the Twins to risk a $11 million per year potential loss, if Buxton is lost to injuries. Think of this as the Happ-Shoemaker Bill. One item not discussed is whether the Twins could insure Buxton's salary against injury. A trade is likely if Falvey believes the team is five years out from contention in the AL Central.

Joey Wendle is my choice. Problem is .... what does Tampa Bay want for him? Maybe the Twins can send Strotman back, or perhaps they will take Duffey in exchange. Wendle is a good baseball player.

What does Josh Donaldson have to do to convince Twins fans that he is a good baseball player? I think next year is a good time to work Jose Miranda into playing time and also believe that Donaldson would benefit from being a DH a couple of times per week. Chapman has little value for the Twins unless he comes for prospects in the #20-40 range. Great defense, the bat should rebound, but not a fit for the Twins. We have JD already and Miranda waits.

Sorry, no assumptions were made. The numbers are already in - the Twins do better with Buxton in the lineup than when he is not in the lineup. He is a special talent. I wrote that "I hope you can see the Buxton side of an argument, even if you still don't believe in him." I wasn't trying to change your mind, just hoped one might see that people see things differently. You are correct - no one can predict the future. I don't think i did. If you believe I did, now please accept that I am saying that I cannot predict the future. Ok. This is a totally different topic. You have your opinions and there are sure to be reasons for those beliefs. I accept your 2 cent opinion, even though I do not agree with you.

Nice that Griffin Jax is able to play baseball. Congrats to him.

Long time fans ... never let go. The Twins traded Rod Carew. By comparison, the Buxton and Berrios debacles are minor albeit irritating. Hang in dude.

Best comment of the day/week/month/year. Brilliant.

This is a big concern because it may speak to a toxic environment between the current FO and the players. We just don't know. It is curious though how quickly Berrios managed to complete a deal with Toronto.

Agree. The old mask are/were heavy. I caught a few hundred games and was whacked numerous times by foul balls and am still just stupid but rather undamaged from the hits. A number of others shifted to the lighter masks and suffered a series of unfortunate injuries, most commonly concussions. My usage was tied to cost, not convenience or some intelligent motive. I have read a few studies that try to compare the masks but cannot recall where. Maybe I did suffer more than recalled.

John, there are too many variables to give a simple answer. Berrios was our best pitcher until Maeda was better and the hope was that Maeda would continue to pitch well and that the Twins would add another pitcher. Most view Berrios as a #2/#3 pitcher whose value is tied to his taking the ball every fifth day. The past few years we have seen a parade of pitchers who sadly performed below expectations even as Berrios continued to consistently put up fair numbers. Happ, Shoemaker, and Colome equal the Contract for Berrios which puts a ton of pressure on Martin and Woods-Richardson to perform to a solid standard. It is the direction of the team I find a little worrisome. We like a number of the young hitters but their defense is less than an expected standard for an MLB player. If the Twins made some decent trades and supplemented those acquisitions with a signing or two, then yes I would agree with your position. Time will tell how this shakes out. I don't think it is a matter of pocketing money so much as being risk adverse. This is why the Twins get Cave, Happ, and others. Don't get me wrong, I'm not down on the FO and there are deals like the Maeda trade I supported. My concern is with the plan.

Correct, and the Twins should be even more active in signing international players. I only meant that prospects like Wander Javier or Joe Benson, etc. are still volatile, although valuable and not to equated with established all star players. I do think Seattle's prospects are good. Regrets if this came off wrong.

Trades indeed. It keeps the costs down. Sadly, some players had to go to bring back others to keep payroll down. Ryan went to Oakland with Arraez, Duffey, and others for Montas and Bassitt. Garver went with Larnach and several others to miami for Cabrera and Meyer. The idea was to reduce costs, bring in a few solid pitchers and let Ober, Winder, Duran, Balazovic, and others work in to the team. In this version, Lewis, Martin, and Celestino are still around and the Twins likely need to add someone like Mark Canha to bring the cost to @$110 million. It would be nice to budget at $140+ ..... hard to see this year.

This might be reasonable if the Twins were going to cut payroll to $50 million and start over. Prospects are interesting to follow. Yes, both of these guys are really talented and interesting, but also a long way from becoming Jorge Polanco. Does anyone remember the highest paid foreign signed player from just a few years back named Wander Javier? Where are you, Dusty?

A tough front line pitcher wearing #47? Any flashbacks?

Would the following work then, with one or two additions and an understanding of the incentive deal done with Buxton?

This is true. It is also a reason to push a new contract for Buxton. When he plays the team wins. Ah, but the injuries and so a conundrum.

The Rosario debate has been done too often. I wanted the Twins to keep Rosario. However, many saw Rosario as in decline and pointed out his faults. Much of the conversation was more aligned to allocation of financial resources and there were fair points in the posts and comments. I do wish that there was less use of past players or front office members in our posts and comments. Perhaps the use of "meager" was unnecessary.

Wow, again. Both debaters did an excellent job. The amount of support for each position was laudable. I will always connect Kirby Puckett to two World Series trophies and the Metrodome as well as Bob Casey. What a shooting star Puckett was for our team. Joe Mauer was a unicorn athlete. I will never forget watching him get triple teamed by three players who played D1 basketball in the state tournament. Cretin lost because of an injury to one of their players but Mauer was spectacular as he dished out assists, rebounded, scored, and blocked shots. Jay Jaffe has done some marvelous work with analytics and his work places Mauer in the top ten catchers in baseball history. I have followed baseball closely for more than sixty years in many capacities and think Mauer was totally amazing. So, despite my vast appreciation for Puckett, my brain judges Mauer to be the superior player. Thus, my vote would not be neutral or fair to the debate. However, I am very impressed by the extensive argument and presentation for Puckett. Great job by both persons.

Ok. What is the overall picture then? Are you talking $50-75 million, $75-100 million, or $100-125 million? Each is possible and we have zero say in those decisions. The Twins can be competitive and keep Buxton at the $100-125 million budget. It is how the team is built that makes a difference and trades will bring in better players at a lower salary than free agency, although this will cost some shift in roster members. The post is about a perceived hostility or less fondness perhaps of our current management team towards those players signed by the previous front office. Professional sports teams see a ton of movement of personnel and it is mostly a business. However, it does seem human that a person would favor their choices over others. Hostility? That doesn't seem very likely, especially in the cold reality of our corporate culture.

Yah, I'm confused why there are people who dismiss the core that was in place. If the Twins tore the team down this year and accumulated some prospects, they would lose for five years while that next core learned to play at the MLB level. At that time, if that core had real talent, the team would be competitive. Somehow, people need to get away from the idea that one management team is superior to a previous one.

Can't disagree with your sentiment on payroll. However, the Twins can keep Buxton and reduce payroll too and have a better team on the field than last summer.

I'm struggling to see the relevance of Mauer to Buxton.

This is an interesting series Nash, with your Bassitt and Montas posts. If the Twins are not tearing it down, these two are prime targets. My offseason goal was to find trades that would potentially work and result in a 2022 Twins roster capable of competing. Miami and Oakland are possible partners. One trade offer I propose is to send Joe Ryan, Drew Strotman, Luis Arraez, Brent Rooker, Tyler Duffey, and a minor league player or two like Alerick Soularie to Oakland for Chris Bassitt and Frankie Montas. This may need to be tweeked. Billy Beane will know what is reasonable. My initial targets in Miami were Sandy Alcantara or Pablo Lopez, but they seem off limits. A proposal to the Marlins is to send Ryan Jeffers or Mitch Garver, Trevor Larnach or Max Kepler, Matt Canterino, Chris Vallimont, and Keoni Cavaco for Edward Cabrera and Max Meyer. My preference is to send Garver and Larnach. I would add Lewis for Alcantara instead of Cabrera or Meyer. These trades may cost the Twins some valuable assets but return pitchers to stabilize the starting pitching at a value salary cost. In turn, this allows the Twins to push their pitching prospects forward aggressively without drowning them at the MLB level. Nash, I'm curious how you view the Miami pitchers as potential and viable for the Twins. While both Alcantara and Lopez carry high value, perhaps Cabrera and Meyer can be worth Falvey's time.

Relax. Baseball is a relaxing game.

None of us has a clue about the actual numbers being exchanged, except there was something vaguely stated about a base of 7/$80 million. This is a ton of money. We heard/read reports of differences on incentives or a ceiling of $100 million, etc. and then it all gets muddy/unclear. The main difference of opinion I have is on the incentives. Yes, the 7/$80 million is huge money. That doesn't speak to the cost of competing in MLB. The incentives would seem to be a win/win proposition. If Buxton performs, he makes money, the Twins win when he plays, the team makes money. The incentives should start at what one might expect from a player making $11 million per year. This should be something that Falvey or his negotiator and Buxton's agent could work out between them. Certainly, most would agree that incentives could start at 120 games played or thereabouts. Injuries happen in sports and very few athletes escape competition unscathed. The greatest baseball player of this century sat out most of this past year. He also has a huge contract going forward. The revenues from tickets, ads, etc. have already paid off for the Angels. You wouldn't find one person in their organization who regrets Trout's contract. Buxton is not Trout nor close, which is why he looks to a contract with incentives that could potentially reward him for a monster year(s). The frustration with our current management team is somewhat normal but folks should let go of any venom in a different way. Falvey, like Ryan, Smith, and others before him, is attempting to do his job. I cannot get too angry at him personally because I don't know him. I never understood how anyone could judge Falvey as a wonder and put Ryan or Smith down. Ryan is among the most respected people in baseball, still. We are not privy to the directions from Jim Pohlad, at all. It is simplistic to think that Ryan, Falvey, or anyone else operates on their own wishes and whims with the direction of the Minnesota Twins franchise. Buxton has been out of action too often to judge adequately or his contract would be a simple judgment call. While his past injuries are seen as a prologue to future action, that is not certain or even highly predictable. Vegas makes money on those who predict. Buxton also has not passed his prime in any fashion. This past year we saw him take the best at bats of his career, use his athleticism on the bases and in the field, and noticed that he was less reckless with his body at the fence on on useless dives. He remains a remarkable athlete and is just coming into his prime, especially with an understanding of what pitchers want to do with him. Again, he has missed a ton of games and thus an incentive-laden contract. Trades? The best I have read/heard was not interesting to me. you can find them on every site of a team that wants a good centerfielder. Aaron Hicks for Byron Buxton was one idea, but not close to the worst. I'll leave it at that. The decision does rest with Pohlad. The one caveat, mentioned in a number of posts and replies, is whether Byron is focused on playing with the Twins. We don't have any idea about that, not even a clue from anything I have heard or read. Hopefully, a contract with incentives can be completed. All of the figuring with numbers does nothing to prove any point about whether Byron Buxton should remain with the Twins. The only way to compensate for his loss would be to sign a couple of available free agents like Starling Marte and Mark Canha for around $30-32 million and there is no guarantee that they wouldn't suffer career ending injuries next April. A rock and a hard place.