Riverbrian

I certainly won't argue your thoughts. And I think the points you make about Stewart's value have value. However... the front office are going to give Outman a run. There was no reason to make the Stewart trade for a 2 month rental this year despite Stewarts value whatever that may be.

Baseball is such a funny game. I find it interesting that last year... The Tigers sold vets at the deadline and went on a historic run with nothing but youth. They started 2025 with youth and continued the historic run. They then added vets and reduced youth at the deadline and collapsed. Not making any claims... just saying it's interesting. Also the rise of Arizona and Cleveland after selling at the deadline. Baseball is such a funny game.

The Twins may have to move Ryan in the off-season. They may not but it sure looks like they may have to. But... if they do... they need to revisit trade packages with everyone. Focusing on the Red Sox deadline discussion whatever it actually was... if it was... is way too narrow a focus. If you are going to narrow the focus. 1B... Need a young 1B stud prospect in return. The hole at 1B is too gaping at the moment.

Outman is Out "Of Options" man. He's back in 2026. They are not giving away Stewart for a two month rental.

Many people are not happy with the Outman acquisition. However... they knew he was out of options when they traded for him. If they knew and they had to know. He's back next year because it would make no sense to trade Brock Stewart for a two month rental on a team that is not going to make the playoffs. They could have traded Stewart for a 19 year old that puts no pressure on the 40 man or 26 roster instead. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Twins liked Outman and they went and got him. I'll even go as far as to say. It appears that the Twins purposely tried to acquire major league ready or close to major league talent when making the deals they made. Which leads me to the conclusion... they ain't done yet since it all piled up in the starting pitching and outfield categories.

Your roster will need an infielder that can play a decent SS. Brooks Lee won't play 162 games even if they try to play him 162 games. And I'd say that 6 outfielders is too many.

In my mind... It simply means that he should be part of the plans for next year. No guarantees on what he will bring next year but he should be on the 26 man roster and given the opportunity to compete. Right now... I think he should primarily play OF but I believe that infield should remain part of his repertoire because team context will change with injuries and the ability to deploy Martin at 2B or 3B should injuries create the need will be helpful. The ability to deploy Martin in the infield could potentially allow Martin to create extra playing time for the rest of the outfielders on the roster. In my mind... the club has to sort out the players with decision deadlines hanging over them. Who knows what ingredients the front office is going to use this off season or how they use them to prepare this upcoming 2026 dinner. A trade of Ryan can shift the recipe quickly but maybe they don't trade him or any of the pitching. Maybe they decide to simply try and move forward from here. Before they call up Jenkins... they have to make decisions on those whose decisions are immediately due. Don't get me wrong... I can't wait for the arrival of Jenkins and I hope he becomes what we all hope he becomes but you don't want to toss a side potential major league talent to clear the space for him. Even if that potential major league talent turns out to be average major league talent in the end. You don't want to toss it. Martin has earned a 2026 job. He doesn't have to play every day but he deserves to play most days. He needs to be part of a group of players competing with each other for jobs in 2027 and beyond.

I don't have a problem with the Correa deal. Even in hindsight... I still don't. It was nice to see the Twins actually walk into that exclusive door and play in the upper end of the free agent pool... if only for a second. However, if they took this Correa risk because of the potential of Wallner, Kirilloff, Larnach, Miranda and Lewis and Steer. They couldn't have handled this critical group worse nor failed harder. The first three justifications for signing Correa were strip mined for parts, pinch hit for, and handcuffed to Farmers, Garlicks and Luplows. Now we are at the point where the Twins Daily faithful are talking about trading what's left of this trio. Of course trade value for Wallner and Larnach has been severely compromised due in large part to the players being compromised by the club. I'm sure the reason for the compromising was justified into an attempt to raise the odds by raising percentages during this Correa window but in the end... they compromised young rising talent in order to platoon advantage for slight percentage gains on a per AB basis. Maybe the Larnach and Wallner can recover value enough to reach Joc Pederson series of one year contract levels when they reach free agency but right now... it's being openly discussed on this website that we should just toss Larnach now despite having above average success at the plate against the hand he was allowed to face. This was minimizing future value in an attempt to minimally raise current odds. Only Steer had an above average OPS of the right handed group in 2025... the one that is not here. Miranda... we have probably seen the last of. Hopefully Lewis has shaken out of whatever had him but he's in arbitration now and despite an incredibly hot superstar like start. He has been a year long slump surrounded by injury and enough injury that Miranda had enough time to rescue his career as the trio of right handed justifications for acquiring Correa were all tied to the same position. I'm not sure if development could have turned out worse and honestly... I'm not sure that it wasn't partially intentional because they tried to justify the Correa signing with Margot's and Frances. The D-Backs... sold at the deadline... and have pulled themselves back into contention with the kids. Much like Cleveland did. The Twins... not so much. They could not have supported the Correa deal worse.

And today he's doing? He's got a podcast so there's that.

I agree he was probably pushed but he was allowed to tell the world that he left on his own accord.

I agree... For example this off-season... I assume and I don't think it's a reach to assume that Falvey had to go to ownership and get a payroll bump approved just to add Bader to the roster and he got it. Even if we stayed in contention and didn't sell this deadline. We were going to sell in the off-season. They have been acting like a team that hit the max allowed.

Lavine did. Why he left one of 30 major league jobs without another job lined up says something. Was he pushed out or did he just say... Screw This? I don't know both are possible but you just don't leave a well paying high profile job like that without another job lined up unless he was pushed out Or the frustration/pressure level got to the point that he was willing to chuck something that he had spent 26 years cultivating to get to that position. We will never what was happening inside of those offices but what was leaking out of it sure gave the impression of turmoil.

I think your quite possible's are quite possible... because a plausible explanation is needed and it's about the only plausible explanation that I can think of. And it's exactly what weights heavy on my mind. Thinking you are a Carlos Correa at full potential away? OK... maybe for a year, maybe two but certainly not for the length of the contract? Players get more expensive as time moves on. Payroll would need to keep rising. I'm sure they placed some large bets on Kirilloff and others that didn't pay off but a team with limited budget was going to need more than Kirilloff and I don't believe they placed enough bets because Kirilloff by himself was never going to be enough. They had to know that money was going to dry up regardless of the television revenue. TV/Cable... Baseball demographics... all of it was on shaky ground when they took the position. When it hit... it didn't just hit the Twins. It hit multiple teams. Many teams felt the financial hit but not every team felt the hit on the overall product like what occurred in Minnesota. This front office conducted themselves like the money was going to be there and they kept on the same path even when they had to know that the money was no longer there. We all know this but it's worth pointing out. They signed Ty France for an everyday 1B job at nearly the minimum and made him an every day player. The only teams that do this sort of thing are teams that have nowhere else to go. They can't afford better and they didn't grow better... and better was such a tremendously low bar to clear.

The front office was very aggressive in approach and it just stopped for whatever reason. It's easy to assume that the TV deal drying up was the reason. Who knows but since the two deadlines in a row without making a significant deal came after the Diamond/Bally debacle... it's just an easy assumption and it's still the assumption that I have. Bottom line... not doing anything at the deadline was not what this front office was doing prior. The front office was typically aggressive prior. OK... So let's assume that ownership/financials dictated a change in course. They were heading one direction and a roadblock was placed. This assumption raises some questions that I don't have answers to. 1. When they started... Did the ownership give them the impression that payroll wouldn't be an issue? Were they under the impression that they could take payroll to 160 million, 180 million, 200 million (whatever was necessary) in the future? It's an important question because they staffed the roster like they could keep going. They stayed on the same path like they could keep going and clearly they couldn't. Most of us have been Twins fans for a long time and in 2023 we reached 153 million. I understand inflation inflates numbers making math necessary to compare decades but 153 million is a level that none of us ever dreamed of. At least not me. 153 million was well above what teams in similar revenue situations were spending if you just wanted to realistic compare in a single season. Did the ownership lead the front office to believe that payroll could keep rising because... all of sudden after reaching 153 million and the TV deal drying up. The brakes were applied, the course was corrected... the aggressiveness just plain stopped. Did ownership give them the impression that they could continue to keep going with spending because if you are not bringing in significant young talent to fill roster spots... the only way to sustain success is going to be with the pocketbook. Even if given this impression by ownership and the rug was pulled out from under. How could they not see this coming regardless. Yes the media revenue going away was unfortunate but even if the regional TV money stayed intact... there was still going to be a limit. If you are not producing major league talent on your farm you have to pay for every spot. Even the big money teams will run out of money at some point. they will reach a limit and have to take a couple of significant steps backwards in regards to payroll. The Cubs, The Red Sox are just a couple of examples off the top of my head. The Red Sox sold their farm to get to the top and then they had to sell Mookie Betts because there was no money left and nobody on the farm. Why would this front office think they could just keep going? If you are driving on a road with no gas stations ahead. The car will run out of gas and you will be on the side of the road. The next question is this. Did they think they were a Carlos Correa away when they signed him. Did the Carlos Correa signing simply put them in a position where they had to continue to go for it... no matter what. Did it lead to the conclusion that Manual Margot and Ty France additions were necessary to go for it instead of because they dropped a load on Carlos and there was no turning back, because they brought payroll to new heights and there was no turning back. I don't know the answers to these questions... but I have reached one conclusion. This Twins front office approach to staffing the roster is very similar to how the Phillies and Yankees have been staffing their roster. WITH ONE HUGE DIFFERENCE... they don't have the money to spend that the Phillies and Yankees have to spend so the chances of success were going to challenged and even if successful... the window was always going to be short.

Springsteen writes about the Twins a lot. From the album Nebraska "Well now... Everything dies baby that's a fact... but maybe everything that dies someday comes back". And this one from the album "The River" is all Twins. I think he wrote the line after the Rod Carew trade. "Like a river that don't know where it's flowin... I took a wrong turn and I just kept goin".

It is a lot of what if's... but it can come together quicker than most of us imagine it can. Can this front office produce enough major league level talent from their system. I don't want to hear about a lofty farm system ranking anymore. Don't care if they are ranked 1st or 30th. They got to get to the point where they are graduating at least 4, hopefully 5 or 6 players from their system a year in order to work with the budget constraints that there is no escape from. Other teams are able to do it. Can this front office develop? This past trade deadline... they sure seemed to make a concentrated effort toward landing as much close to major league ready or actual major league ready prospects. This suggests that they may not be preparing for another bad year. 6 players acquired will need to be on the 40 man by December. Taj Bradley (Already on 40 and 26) James Outman (Already on 40 and 26) Mick Abel (Already on 40) Alan Roden (Already on 40) Kendry Rojas (Will Require a 40 man spot in December) Henry Mendez (Will Require a 40 man spot in December) Can the front office develop these players further. Can they develop players from the farm to join them. Not just one... Multiple. Players Plural.

OK... As long as we don't let my wife in. She won't let me leave a penny in the "Take a Penny" spot at a convenience store.

That's what I appreciated about BBTV. Trades are going to be eye of the beholder but it was never maligned by me. Ultimately... Years of Control along with performance will determine value. Out of curiosity. I've been cheap... actually too lazy to find my credit card and pay for access to BBTV since they decided to try and make money. Who is the most valuable player in baseball right now according to BBTV on September 19, 2025? Skenes? Anthony? I don't know if you are a subscriber. Maybe someone else is.

Love this post. It's additional food for thought. True Free Agency... One Year Deals max. The roster turnover would be jaw dropping and the AAV would go through the roof.

I didn't know that about Royce and the mystery extra 5 grand. Interesting. You can always agree to more money between the club and player. Roman Anthony being a recent prime example. Roman will average 16 million for the next 8 years. Starting at 2 million this year and increasing upward year over year. Roman gets the security in his early days against injuries... doesn't have to go through arbitration. In return the Red Sox will have bought up potentially 3 years of Free Agency. Assuming he never sees the minors again. Typically clubs will just pay these players the minimum and don't entertain the thought of an agreement unless they feel the player will be worth buying out a year of two of free agency.

Exactly... those deals are just not done anymore. This is a big part of why I'm asking this almost rhetorical question. If the Twins wanted to trade Joe Ryan. Pretty well established top of the line starter. Could he bring Eldridge or McGonigle to the Twin Cities in return? I don't think he would. I started thinking about why wouldn't he. Ryan has two years of control at what will be increasing salary through arbitration. He's pretty established now as one of the top pitchers in baseball. Teams would love to have him on their roster. So why wouldn't he? It occurred to me. If all contracts were null and void and everyone was free to sign with anyone. Roman Anthony at age 21... or Nick Kurtz at age 22 or Jackson Chourio at age 21... these 3 players could get the largest contracts offered. Bigger contracts than Soto, Ohtani or Judge. Maybe not in terms of AAV but after length of contract is factored in. Therefore... could they actually be... the most valuable players in the game right now. If so... take those players and now mix in the CBA rules that they make the minimum. (I know that Anthony and Chourio have signed extensions buying up those years). If that's the case... Is trading Joe Ryan worth it?

I'm just starting a thread to ask a question. The CBA states that until a player reaches 3 years of service time... they are paid the minimum. Let's Imagine that this clause doesn't exist. Let's imagine for the purposes of my upcoming question that players are eligible for free agency whenever contracts expire regardless of age. Let's Say Roman Anthony or Nick Kurtz could sign with any team and hit the free market as a 20, 21, 22 or 23 year old player. Doesn't it stand to reason... that Nick Kurtz or Roman Anthony would most likely get the largest contracts offered? Possibly instantly larger contract than a 27 year old like Juan Soto. Certainly length of contract could exceed what Soto was offered. Yet due to the terms of the CBA. The talented 23 year old must make the minimum until 3 years of service time is reached. Doesn't this CBA limitation on young talent... create a synergistic increase in value for someone like Kurtz or Anthony. Just food for thought as the Twins go through this current rebuild process and try to acquire young talented players. Value exists in youth yet the CBA pays vets.

Yep There are times when injuries help.

Agreed... I doubt that Naylor is going to require a one year prove it deal. We will see what he gets. It's hard to predict. On the other hand 1B is one of those positions that most teams have covered so his options may be limited but it's quite possible that Yankees and Red Sox come a calling.

I'm not trying to be difficult as I do appreciate your response but a fairly set lineup would require definition. And regardless of the definition... I'll contend that a fairly set lineup is pretty much impossible so if players require getting comfortable hitting in the same spot in the lineup. Injuries and Poor Play are going to make it almost impossible. So... the better approach would be making the players comfortable being uncomfortable in order to get your best hitters at the top of the lineup in the anticipation of consistency being impossible. Even with Buxton consistent in the leadoff spot not every AB is going to be the same. He may leadoff with the bases empty and nobody out and the next AB... there's runner on third with one out. The game situation is never consistent, the injuries are never consistent... nothing about baseball is consistent. I fail to see how Buxton needs Vazquez in the 9 hole in front of him. Or why Bader should remain in the 9 hole even if he is hitting better than Brooks Lee. If they are creatures of routine... OK... I was sleeping in Psychology Class but here's the routine they can lock into... Watch the game: Notice what the pitcher is doing. Listen to what teammates are saying when they walk back to the dug out... asking questions if you have any. Share intel with everyone including the guys on the bench. Your In The Hole: Get your batting gloves on... Get your mind right. Your On-Deck: Grab the bat go to the on deck circle. Do your routine... Try time the pitcher. Put the donut on if you like, Get loose... let the ball boy pick up foul balls that trickle past you. Your Up: Compete The team with the best record in Baseball at this point of the season is the Milwaukee Brewers. Here are the top three in terms of AB's at each batting order for the Brewers. Batting Leadoff/AB's: Turang 274 Frelick 223 Chourio 129 Batting 2nd Chourio 311 Contreras 155 Collins 71 Batting 3rd Yelich 291 Conteras 213 Chourio 46 Batting 4th Yelich 215 Contreras 181 Hoskins 70 Batting 5th Frelick 164 Vaughn 115 Hoskins 87 Batting 6th Hoskins 111 Collins 109 Durbin 69 Batting 7th Turang 93 Collins 88 Durbin 87 Batting 8th Durbin 155 Ortiz 103 Perkins 55 Batting 9th Ortiz 289 Monasterio 56 Durbin 53 It's debatable who is the best hitter on the Brewers is but I'd say that Yelich and Turang are strong candidates for that designation. Turang 1st 274 AB's 2nd 19 3rd 13 4th 4 5th 73 6th 27 7th 93 8th 9 9th 42 Turang is one of their best hitters... He should hit leadoff because he one of their best hitters and he earned the leadoff spot due to performance. However... in the end... it adds up to 274 AB's hitting leadoff and 280 AB's at every other spot in the order. Turang has started the last 12 games and in those 12 games... Here is where he hit in the order: 1,3,1,1,1,1,3,3,5,5,5,2 Since Bichette got hurt... I can see that Blue Jays go Springer, Lukes, Vlad, Barger, Kirk, Varsho on most nights Before Bichette got hurt, Bichette was typically in the 4th spot. Barger was in the 2 spot. Lukes slid into the 2 and Barger moved to the 4 with the Bichette injury. Before the Bichette injury and Vlad was out for a few games. Bichette moved to the three to cover for Vlad. This is a consistent lineup with inconsistency cause by injury. There is player movement. At the end of the day... though... when you look at the lineup. The top 6 hitters are pretty much their top 6 hitters. It's Chicken or Egg. Do the best teams remain consistent because it's working or is it working because they are consistent. I'd say lineup consistency is a result of something working.