Riverbrian

Yep I was thinking it more like 6PM. Dinner Time... let's feed him.

I have no feeling on what the Twins will do. They have things to sort out and it all starts today when they add players that they want to protect to the 40 man roster. Mike, I knew that I was going to be at a crossroads with some when I was thinking about chiming in. We will disagree... I have moved on from a simple starting 9 a long time ago and I'm not coming back.

I am using my mind's eye to determine intent as well. We may have to free up some dollars to get that SP or OF or 1B. In that case... the departure of Polanco makes sense to me. Although myself personally... I go into this off-season thinking that we need Polanco's bat plus another talented bat. If Polanco has to be traded to get a pitcher... Now we need two bats.

Exactly And to remain on that pigs back... riding that wild hog further. 27% of all Twins plate appearances came from players who were not on the opening day roster. And if you consider the following players to be our STARTING 9 coming out of the off-season: Buxton DH Vazquez C Gallo 1B Polanco 2B Miranda 3B Correa SS Larnach LF Taylor CF Kepler RF 51% of all plate appearances came from the consensus starting 9 coming out of the off-season... and I swapped Polanco for Gordon who actually started opening day at 2B with Polanco on the DL. Swap Larnach for Kililloff if you like... it'll still be around 51%. When you are staffing your roster and making hard decisions... Always take the better player. Under no circumstance do you purposely take the lesser player.

Are you asking me about 9 players who start all 162 games or are you asking me about 13 players who can all perform? What's the team context when the lineup card is made out? Are we adding any players to the roster? Are we subtracting any players from the roster? Is Julien hitting .200? Is Julien hitting .350? How is Kirilloff doing? How is Wallner doing? Is Julien allowed to hit left-handed pitching? Is Kirilloff or Wallner allowed to hit left handed pitching? Is there a right hander starting or is there a left hander starting? Who is healthy? Who is not? Donovan Solano played in 134 games last year. Willi Castro played in 124 games last year. I was extremely happy with both Solano and Castro last year but Polanco was better. If you are asking me "directly" how the playing time is arranged if everyone is healthy for 162 games and everybody is performing to expectation. Well... in that scenario... I'm not going to care that much because everybody is healthy and performing to expectation... therefore we are going to be fine as a baseball club no matter how the playing time is distributed. But... OK... I'll answer your question using a season long context that will not happen because it never happens. Julien can play 1B, DH or 2B... Polanco can play 2B, DH and occasional 1B and 3B. You make these decisions in the off-season under the assumption that not everybody is going to be fine. That's how Solano played 134 Games and Castro played in 124 games because Miranda wasn't fine, Lewis wasn't healthy, We didn't know what Julien could do in his first go round.

Budget is the only justification for a trade. If he has to be moved for budget considerations than he will have to be moved for budget considerations. However... if it's budget I recommend Farmer at 6.5... or better yet... both for 18 and let's go bigger still. However... I'm not so sure that many of the posters across the many threads on the subject are looking at two 2B and saying that is too many.

162 x 3.1 = 502 502 is how many PA's you need to qualify for the batting title. We had 1 player (Carlos Correa) reach that mark in 2023. I surely didn't predict that Donovan Solano would be third in PA's and Willi Castro would be 4th. 134 divided by 30 teams = 4.47 There were 134 MLB players total who reached 502 PA's to qualify. Just counting position players -- The injured list (10 and 60 day) was utilized a total of 23 times. Plus 22 separate times a position player on the 26 man roster was listed as day to day without IL utilization. Once again... that's just position players... not counting pitchers. Here are the players who spent time on the injured list. (Just position players) Royce Lewis, Joey Gallo and Jorge Polanco 3 times. Carlos Correa, Alex Kiriloff, Byron Buxton and Max Kepler 2 times. Michael A. Taylor, Willi Castro, Jose Miranda, Trevor Larnach, Nick Gordon and Kyle Farmer once. Over the course of the 2023 season. 8 different players played 1B 7 different players played 2B (Including Vazquez twice) 6 different players played 3B 5 different players played SS 12 different players played OF Yet... Polanco and Julien on the same roster is an issue that must be rectified because every off season... the mythical log jam rears it's head out of Loch Ness.

You are making him a utility/bench player... I'm not. 😉 I'm telling that it's not a thing...You have to personally make into a thing to make it a thing. You make it into a thing by creating self created absolutes like "Polanco can't play SS or 3B, other than in an emergency". First off... Most people think that Polanco is a better 2B than Julien but Julien's defensive shortcomings are OK while Polanco's defensive shortcomings are made into absolutes. I hear ya but that logic is selective. 2nd off... Emergencies happen every single year. When was the last time the Twins went through a season with 4 infielders staying off the disabled list. Why would anyone expect it to occur in 2024 and why would anyone shorten a 26 man roster knowing that 162 game health hasn't occurred in our memories. Especially when nobody has the ability to predict the sequence of injuries to our infield that will surely occur in 2024. Polanco played 15 games at 3B last year during the regular season and we still made the playoffs. Why did he play 3B? Because Miranda was anointed the primary 3B going into the season after a real nice first year and he failed in his 2nd year and got himself sent down, Because Lewis was hurt for the first few months and then landed on the disabled list two more times after he was initially reinstated. Because Julien who didn't make the opening day 26 man roster started to hit the ball much like Miranda did in 2022 and made himself necessary and the team had to adjust to a new combination of players that made the team better. Rocco and the front office could have easily gone with Farmer at 3B when Polanco and Julien were in the same lineup together out of necessity. They didn't because the combination of Polanco and Julien made our lineup better and they didn't because they still were not allowing Julien to hit left handers and Farmer needed to come to face the left handed emergency. Polanco started 3 games at 3B in the playoffs. We won two of them. Lewis was hurt again. Rocco could have started Farmer at 3B with everything on the line. He chose Polanco again at 3B. As for SS... Correa is much much much better defensively at SS this is true. Polanco was shifted to 2B because Polanco handles 2B better than he handles SS... I also believe this to be true. I want to be clear that I am not advocating that Polanco plays SS in 2024... But... But... back in 2019... Polanco played 142 games at SS and we won 101 games so please... no absolutes. We are taking degrees... This player might be better at a position... this player might be a better hitter. We are talking degrees but a better player is a better player. I will never choose a lesser player for a roster because of a little crowding... I will never choose a lesser player for a roster because I'm looking for a backup who I really really hope doesn't play. I will never assume that a player on the roster will not play. I will assume that players on the 26 man roster will play and play a lot. This team has depth... we can survive the injuries that will surely come... keep that depth and make your top end stronger. Don't give up top end for prospects.

If Polanco gets traded we need major league talent in return. We don't know if he is going to be healthy... I'd bet against him avoiding the DL... We also don't know if Lewis will be healthy... if Julien will be healthy... If Correa will be healthy. If Castro will be healthy. The fact that we don't know who will be healthy is exactly why you don't trade him in my opinion. As far as Julien moving to DH or 1B or Polanco moving some place. I've said it enough times. I'm not worried about that at all. What I want is 26 guys who can play because we will need more than 26 guys over the course of a long season. We have reached the point where our young controlled cheap talent with options are bubbling up to major league ready... This is where you want to be. Now you supplement that depth with better than average vets who can put us over the top. This is not the time to get rid of someone like Polanco.

I don't think we should move Julien either. I think we should be adding talent to Polanco and Julien. Julien was indeed better last year... at least against right handers because he wasn't really allowed to face left handers. Julien better last year doesn't mean that Julien will be better next year. Miranda was good in 2022... not so much in 2023. It's risky dice roll to say we got Julien and Lee coming so let's start throwing productive vets out of the way. Lewis hasn't been healthy for an entire year. We are not infield crowded to the point that it makes sense to move a guy that has performed pretty nicely during his lengthy stay with the club. Now if Arraez for Lopez trade falls out of the sky. Yes of course you have to consider that but I'm not sure that Polanco can fetch what we need. Polanco is more valuable to us by being a better hitter than that right handed short side platoon specialist that we replace him with. Players get hurt... players with options don't always perform well.

The only reason that you move Polanco is to free up cash in order to spend that cash on another player. If anyone is thinking we should move Polanco because it's crowded and we have younger players who are better... we don't yet.

Yes they do

It's all good. Myself personally... I'm happy with the signing... still am despite last years performance... but yeah... it did shake my world and I hope he rebounds big time in 2024. Mostly though... I was shocked by the signing. Signing this big a free agent for that big of dollars is something the Twins have not done so I wasn't prepared for them to do it. I had dismissed the possibility no matter how many rumors were out there. So when they got it done... not matter how many failed medical reports it took to get it done... I fell out of my chair that has been built on history. All in All... I think Carlos is good baseball player who will help us win games and from there I don't worry about the money. It costs what it costs to get him and I think we have enough young talent on the roster and young talent coming up that we have the financial room to keep a decent team around him... But... most of all... I like what the signing represents... I don't believe they can walk through this big money free agent door again and again but the signing represents that the possibility of walking through the door actually exists. So... Carlos is one of us... he isn't going anywhere... now we got to staff the roster around him.

Pure brilliance!

I'm not telling you to stop complaining about Correa... I only chimed in response to your suggestion that they could get a "couple of top 50 prospects" in a trade of Correa. Whatever your point is... thinking two top 50 prospects come back in return is going to poison your overall point. The Twins signed Correa to that contract because they like Correa... they wanted Correa in a Twins uniform to help us win games right now and the contract was how much it cost to acquire him. To your overall point of consternation as you explain above. Part of what you say is a legitimate argument although you will find plenty of TD posters who are ready to argue with you. Should teams in our financial range jump in with the big clubs with big budgets and compete for high dollar free agents. That's a good question and the argument is legitimate. Big dollar free agents are indeed risky and clubs in the Twins financial range get hurt bad if they miss, it severely limits what they can spend on a supporting cast of players around him so I can see how you feel that way. However... when you say "that other teams were passing on him" and using that as an argument against Correa. You are wrong... other teams were not passing on Correa... they were passing on the price to acquire Correa. If you want the player... you have to pay what it takes to acquire the player. The other 29 teams set the price. The Twins didn't pay 200 million to get Correa when the next closest offer was 50 Million. This is the nature of free agency. When you say "The fact we would have to throw in money to get him off our hands confirms he'd not worth what we are paying him and that has been my point all along". It confirms no such thing. That comment shows a lack of understanding of how free agency works. If you want to buy a 57 Chevy and so do two other people. Bob stops at 80,000, Natalie decided she will spend 99,000 and you offer 100,000 and you get the Chevy. You can't call Bob and Natalie after driving around the car for a year and then offer to sell them that Chevy for 100,000 as long as they throw in a couple of top 50 prospects. If they wanted to spend 100,000 for the 57 Chevy they would have spent it when the 57 Chevy was available before you bought it. Your overall point is legitimate... you are right that the Twins were lucky to get out of the Donaldson contract. Should the Twins be in these waters at all is worthy of debate. It's these little sub points that are way way off base.

Hit Enter and It Posted. Wasn't finished with it so I deleted it. I hope you all enjoy these three short sentences.

From what Cereal we buy to who elect for office and everything in between. We are more than willing participants for manipulation.

A softening of the ground? Because he was asked by Dan Hayes? I tend to agree with you. Because Colonel Jessup was right when he said "We Can't Handle the Truth". Honesty will be punished. It probably would have been best to tell Dan Hayes that you are in the Azores with limited cell phone availability.

Those are common sense bullet point additions to my irresponsibility. If assumed over budget as I have assumed. Those three would require another conversation with ownership for further budget increase. This conversation... I assume... is a conversation the front office is more willing to have with ownership and ownership more willing to consider because the three players would have not cost additional prospect capital to acquire. In other words. Yeah... I don't know. But... Your logic is logic worthy of consideration.

I suppose it can't be helped. The casual fan that screamed at the Twins for not spending like the Padres did last year has already forgotten how the Padres did and are back to screaming again. The money argument is insatiable. Yankees fan are screaming at the Yankees for being cheap. You will never satisfy those who equate money to winning. Never.

It's a plausible theory in my head but there is no hard evidence to support it so I'm ok with "irresponsbile. On the article and the reaction to it. I've always understood the advantage that money provides for the big money teams so I'm not going to diminish the value of having it to spend... However... I have never considered money impossible to overcome and will never consider money as an excuse to get angry with ownership or the front office or as an excuse for not making the playoffs. Articles like these are just fuel for the fire of those inclined to burn over things like this. It all sounds like normal business operation to me.

I'm going to do something irresponsible here and something I hate doing because it is irresponsible. I'm going to float a plausible theory that exists in my head (Maybe my head alone) with no inside information at all. Take it all with a grain of salt but I can't help but wonder if the club didn't sail over budget last year and a correction was coming regardless of the TV revenue situation. Here are the clues that lead to my theory: 1. The team from the beginning was always in on signing Correa as a free agent. 2. For a team like the Twins... the money for a free agent in this price range would have to be part of budget plans... Perhaps 35M AAV. He ended up signing for 33.3M AAV but at the time... 35M AAV would have to be part of budget plans if you are trying to sign him and they were trying to sign him by all reports. 3. December 13, 2022 - Correa signs with the Giants for 13 years. 4. December 16, 2022 - 3 Days later... The Twins sign Christian Vazquez for 10 Million AAV and Joey Gallo for 11 Million. This takes 21M out of the 35M that they were using to get Correa signed. I find it interesting that Vazquez and Gallo were signed very quickly once Correa was off the table. 5. December 22, 2022 - Giants have concerns with his medical and back out of the deal. 6. January 11, 2023 - After the Mets signed him to a deal and attempted to lower his contract because of the same medical concerns. Carlos Signs with the Twins... AAV 33.3. 7. Assuming that the twins spent Carlos Correa ear marked money to sign Vazquez and Gallo. His sudden availability may have required an over budget conversation with ownership which of course was approved because he is here. 8. August 1, 2023 - The Twins do not acquire ANYONE at the trade deadline. Is it OK to assume... over budget was a consideration. Irresponsible food for thought from me. Take it for what it's worth.

It is important to understand that in consideration of the contract that he signed with us. He no longer has the type of trade value that will return "a couple of top 50 minor league prospects. When a free agent like Correa signs a large contract like he did with us. He is (typically) signing for more money than other teams are willing to pay him. That fact... immediately takes his trade value to zero because nobody else is willing to pay that contract... that's why we got him in the first place. Once you consider the contract... you need to consider the medical reports (Mets/Giants) which will further decrease long term contract interest. After you consider both of those things... you need to consider that Correa had a really really down year offensively so now you have to drop your trade value down even further below zero. The only way the Twins can get "a couple of top 50 prospects" in exchange for Carlos Correa is if the Twins were willing to EAT a large portion of the contract. In other words... send money to the acquiring team to bring his financial obligations down to a level that the acquiring team is comfortable with and therefore willing to give up two top 50 prospects. I have no idea how much money that would take but I assume... A LOT. So your next consideration is this: If the Twins need to commit a lot of money to make a trade happen. The club will be without a SS with dead money taking up payroll needed for other areas of improvement. This is not going to happen. I hope this helps. A trade of Carlos Correa is not going to happen and when making plans you can write down Carlos Correa at SS. Lock it and throw away the key.

OK... that's fine. However... I'll let others discuss the subjective preferences between Corey Provus, Dick Bremer and others. To me it's like debating a blue chair or red chair in the same living room. I am suggesting that they may want to use this opportunity to redesign the living room instead.

I agree with what you are saying. The OUT is still the most important defensive stat on the planet. If a CF robs a guy of a home run... not only is he... like you say... saving a run right there but he has also created an out that wouldn't have existed without an incredible play. That catch that very few can make just reduced the opposing team from having three outs to work with to two and that variance is huge. The Out trumps all defensive stats because it causes the biggest variance of any stat. Going from two outs to three is enormous... going from 3 outs to 4 is enormous. If an outfielder drops a can of corn... he has just given the opposing team 4 outs to work with... which not only produces a baserunner that shouldn't be on base but also gives the team an extra out to play with and therefore a larger opportunity to string some hits together and produce even more runs. I will never take defense for granted for that reason. A stolen out or an extra out is a huge variance that greatly increases or reduces the odds that an opposing team can use to hang a crooked number on the scoreboard. Defense is important... so don't let yahoo's like me minimize it. However... this is not entirely what we are talking about. We are talking about zone ratings. UZR, DRS are zone ratings that divides the field into zones and tracks how often balls are caught in those zones historically and then tries to quantify it. The overwhelming numbers of chances are routine chances in high catch percentage zones which means the actual plays that separate the men from the boys are few and far between to the point that one play every 2.5 games will determine what will end up being a large difference in expressed defensive value. Zone ratings also don't really factor in starting position. If the outfielder is shifted closer to a low percentage zone... the catch may be routine but he is going to get the low percentage catch zone benefit and look like a superstar. The reverse is also true if an outfielder is shifted closer to a low percentage catch zone and therefore can't get to a high percentage catch zone and the ball drops where players usually catch it... The outfielder is now penalized rather severely for a catch that is quite difficult to make due to positioning. For these reasons... I question the weighting of the non-routine catch in UZR and DRS because of the frequency or lack of frequency of non-routine with routine overwhelming. Since UZR and DRS are the primary defensive component that gets folded into WAR... I no longer take WAR seriously. For anyone to take WAR seriously you have to believe that Varsho with a .674 OPS was a better player than Vlad Jr. I stand here and tell everyone who likes to throw around WAR... If you want to trade me Vlad Jr for Varsho. I'll take that deal.