Week in Review: Crisis of Leadership

TheLeviathan · May 22, 2018

See, I don't know if that is a personal shot at all. Buxton himself said he would be more satisfied with making a game saving catch than a game winning homer. I guess, like me, Thrylos wonders, what would be the difference so long as the team wins? That SHOULD be what any player says, in my opinion. Buxton gave his preference. Certainly, Buxton is a much better fielder than he is hitter. I would actually think that hitting a home run would be the better answer for him, but whatever. Personally, I don't see Buxton's comment as a big deal, but I can see what Thrylos is saying. He never said Buxton "doesn't care". He questioned the rationale behind Buxton's answer. That's all. I don't read anything mean-spirited in his post.

You can't take someone asking him to rank his favorite thing to do and infer from that he doesn't value the other thing.

Quick tell me your favorite family member so I can then tell you how much you don't value the other members of your family. I can give more examples of that really unfair logic, but I'd like to hope it's unnecessary.

ewen21 · May 22, 2018

You can't take someone asking him to rank his favorite thing to do and infer from that he doesn't value the other thing.

Quick tell me your favorite family member so I can then tell you how much you don't value the other members of your family. I can give more examples of that really unfair logic, but I'd like to hope it's unnecessary.

Unfair logic would be whatever thought process you used to accuse him of attacking Buxton personally. I saw it as "he needs to concentrate more on hitting than making circus catches". He can make a circus catch once every ten games, but he takes 25 to 30 at bats a week.

As far as my favorite family member goes, I have no favorite. Simple answer. Just as it should have been for Buxton. How about this:

"We won the game. Any way I can help is a good thing"

And if they press him he could say:

"Doesn't matter, we win"

I do think Buxton needs to get the mental part of the game down. HIs mindset seems to be somewhat of a problem. Is that a bad thing to say?

Squirrel · May 22, 2018

Unfair logic would be whatever thought process you used to accuse him of attacking Buxton personally. I saw it as "he needs to concentrate more on hitting than making circus catches". He can make a circus catch once every ten games, but he takes 25 to 30 at bats a week.

As far as my favorite family member goes, I have no favorite. Simple answer. Just as it should have been for Buxton. How about this:
"We won the game. Any way I can help is a good thing"
And if they press him he could say:
"Doesn't matter, we win"

I do think Buxton needs to get the mental part of the game down. HIs mindset seems to be somewhat of a problem. Is that a bad thing to say?

The inference was that because of that answer he (apparently) does not like to work on hitting. I’m sorry but I think that inference was way off. Buxton answered one question ... game saving catch or game winning home run. That is not asking if you prefer catching balls to hitting balls ... it was a very specific question about one catch vs one at bat, not asking about an overall like or dislike for any portion of his game. Even if he did have a preference over all, it still doesn't mean he doesn't like the other or didn't like to work on it. And the inference came from someone who has a very long history of having a low opinion of Buxton and his talents. Does Buxton need to work on hitting? Of course he does and most have said so. Even I’ve said he needs to get it going or he won’t get far. But we don’t know what he’s working on or not, what his approach is, what his like or dislike is for putting in that work. All we know is he’s far from there and Hope solutions are coming. There is no denying he’s God’s gift to center field, but he needs to find a way to get the other part going if this team is going to have the success we’ve all been hoping for.

TheLeviathan · May 22, 2018

Unfair logic would be whatever thought process you used to accuse him of attacking Buxton personally. I saw it as "he needs to concentrate more on hitting than making circus catches". He can make a circus catch once every ten games, but he takes 25 to 30 at bats a week.

As far as my favorite family member goes, I have no favorite. Simple answer. Just as it should have been for Buxton. How about this:
"We won the game. Any way I can help is a good thing"
And if they press him he could say:
"Doesn't matter, we win"

I do think Buxton needs to get the mental part of the game down. HIs mindset seems to be somewhat of a problem. Is that a bad thing to say?

C'mon man. Picking your favorite thing is not a statement of devaluation of other things. Period. That's the unfair conclusion that was drawn and what my analogy was meant to show.

If you want to say "Buxton should work on hitting" - ok. Say that. Dragging up some quote, making an unfair inference, and using it to go after him is just silly and indefensible. You're trying to defend it, but you have yourself in a pretzel to do it.

Doubles · May 22, 2018

But Nick didn't write an article saying Doze and Buck need to hit, he challenged their leadership and that is bogus.

Citing 3-for-37 says all we need to hear about the need to start hitting.

Pretty sure the context of Nick's point was that those guys need to start leading the offense, which is pretty much irrefutable.

ashbury · May 22, 2018

HIs mindset seems to be somewhat of a problem. Is that a bad thing to say?

It's not a bad thing until a second person comes along who also claims to know what goes on between the player's ears but has a different conclusion than yours, and then endless bickering is the likely result, with no hope for a resolution.

Squirrel · May 22, 2018

Agreed. Plus, Gordon is playing here next year.... Let's get him ready.

He was just promoted to AAA ... yay!

ewen21 · May 22, 2018

It's not a bad thing until a second person comes along who also claims to know what goes on between the player's ears but has a different conclusion than yours, and then endless bickering is the likely result, with no hope for a resolution.

WHy is that a bad thing? It's a theory. You say it is OK until a person who also "claims to know" what goes on between his ears comes to a different conclusion. THat is fine. Then we discuss it civilly and present evidence. I am offering my opinion based only off reading, listening, watching. It took a couple of years for me to get there on this. There is a difference between where I am coming from and being a "hater". I am not a hater., And just so you know, I am not going to have a problem with someone offering a differing opinion so long as they aren't snarky or condescending. Even then I will try to reach out with a PM in attempt to prevent problems on the board.

I happen to think it's healthy to have discussions like this. Buxton started off the last three years horribly. He talked about being nervous last year and the year before. This year Paul tried to "assure him" that he was not a bad hitter. I don't think it is off base to wonder about where he stands as far as the mental part of hitting goes. Lots of people were sure he "figured it out" after last year. It would appear that was an assumption (or wishful thinking) at this point.

Eventually he is going to need to figure this out and it just might go deeper than mechanics. I am not going to write a dissertation on mechanics. I will leave that to the staff writers here. I am not good with graphics, ect… I appreciate those articles a whole lot. However, to assume mechanics is the only possible reason really is closed-minded thinking, in my opinion. An entire field is dedicated to this kind of thing. It is called sports psychology and there most certainly is a psychology to the game. I don't think it is a mere coincidence (or can be explained away by "small sample size") that Buxton is 1-27 vs the Yankees with 17Ks. He looks and acts very uptight in the box against them.

I literally read everything there is to read about the Twins, for better or worse. I have read direct quotes from Buxton citing his own "anxiousness" to the point where it is considerable with him compared to so many other young players I have seen come up with the Twins over the years. I am not pulling this out of the thin air or pretending to know something. I am reading what he is saying and watching him. If someone doesn't agree with me then OK. I took the time to do some searches and in 15 minutes I came up with a number of quotes on his "nervousness" in the box

LeVelle last year with a quote from Molitor:

Buxton is going to be a power-speed combo guy, I have no doubt of that. But the Twins have to help him settle down, relax and be a little more selective at the plate. "We're trying to get him to just settle in," Molitor said.

http://www.startribune.com/twins-postgame-thoughts-on-polanco-buxton-and-the-royals/418580463/

He was a little anxious, trying to see the ball and battle with two strikes. They got him to chase a couple times,” Molitor said

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/sports/professional/story/2015/may/05/sizzling-starlookouts-center-fielder-byrbuxtr/302426/

"He stopped pressing and is not worrying about every swing or every at-bat," Mientkiewicz said.

Buxton prefers his speed on defense -- "I like taking base hits away from anybody," he said

http://lacrossetribune.com/sports/local/pro/shipley-no-need-to-bury-twins-buxton-yet/article_2914ec8d-7264-527b-93d6-bdb10be0cf0f.html

“I think I let the game speed up on me a little bit, which causes me to chase more pitches out of the zone. I just told myself to slow down,” he explained.

“It’s tough,” Buxton said. “It’s very tough. That’s why I’ve got these teammates behind my back to pick me up, but it’s definitely tough starting off the way I do, and then you try to battle and figure things out. ... I’m just too jumpy, too anxious to want to get a hit. I need to slow the game back down and let it come back to me.”

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/MLB/2018/05/21/Byron-Buxton-hopes-to-get-going-as-Twins-host-Tigers/9411526915237/

"Just tried to get a feel of where he was at and I tried to affirm him about his ability to hit," Molitor said. "I think he knows it. He knows when he puts too much pressure on himself and tries to do too much and overthinks his at-bats."

With regards to what Thrylos said, yeah.....he made sense to me. He was not under duress here in a sit down with Torii and he was asked that same question. What do I read into it? I don't know, other than he seems to like talking more about his defense. He explicitly stated it more than once and this time in a very comfortable setting. IN fact, I would not be shocked if he already saw the questions before TOrii asked. Maybe, just MAYBE Thrylos is onto something. Maybe not....but to shut him down completely and tell him he can't think like that? Do we really need to do that? I guess the mods can control that, but I don't encourage that.

Another video.....

Sitting down with Torii and Trout again, and not under duress, both were asked about a weakness.... and Buxton answers his throwing arm? He LOVES talking about the circus catches, too. Buxton even mentions "shyness" and overcoming that. I like that he admits it, but I sure hope that someday he isn't hampered by being "jumpy" in the box

What is this all about? It is just a sample things to show that Buxton really does pride himself on his defense. He is also battles through shyness and nervousness and that shows up in his hitting. He can rely on his athleticism in the field, but hitting is a science and a psychology. He is having trouble with it for several reasons. Part of it is his struggle with mechanics, but no one can tell me that a decent chunk of it CAN'T be mental. That would be one heck of an assumption, imo.

I hope you don't mind that I tried to explain where I am coming from and why I think concern for Buxton is warranted. HE has explicitly stated that he is "pressing" "shy" "jumpy" "nervous" "overthinking"

THat kind of mindset and inner turmoil effects mechanics. Mechanics are tough to execute as it is. If you are stepping into the box in a panicked state your mechanics will not be as they should be. Rhythm, timing, focus, body awareness....all of those things are messed up if you step in the box all choked up.

TheLeviathan · May 22, 2018

I hope you don't mind that I tried to explain where I am coming from and why I think concern for Buxton is warranted. HE has explicitly stated that he is "pressing" "shy" "jumpy" "nervous" "overthinking"
THat kind of mindset and inner turmoil effects mechanics. Mechanics are tough to execute as it is. If you are stepping into the box in a panicked state your mechanics will not be as they should be. Rhythm, timing, focus, body awareness....all of those things are messed up if you step in the box all choked up.

And not a single one of those things implies he doesn't "like" hitting. Which is what Thrylos said.

All you restated is that Byron struggles more with his offense and it comes less naturally. That isn't the same thing as not "liking" or "liking to work at it". (The latter being the real problem, taking someone's preference and turning it into a question of work ethic) You should go back and read the original quote. You don't even seem to agree with what you're defending.

Edited May 22, 2018 by TheLeviathan

ewen21 · May 22, 2018

And not a single one of those things implies he doesn't "like" hitting. Which is what Thrylos said.

All you restated is that Byron struggles more with his offense and it comes less naturally. That isn't the same thing as not "liking" or "liking to work at it". (The latter being the real problem, taking someone's preference and turning it into a question of work ethic) You should go back and read the original quote. You don't even seem to agree with what you're defending.

I read his quote a few times. It actually made me think a little deeper.

In the video where Hunter interviews him he is asked the same question. He was not under duress and he probably knew the question was coming. He also mentioned that famous Jim Edmonds catch and how he really wants to make catches like that. In the interviews I have seen with Hunter and MLB programs he talks only about defense. The only time he mentions offense is when he talks about not taking slumps onto the field.

This is all really nice, but two things about that:

1. He could end up to be Aaron Rowand 2.0, beat up before his time

2. He needs to embrace the language of hitting and start talking about it a little more. It sure as heck couldn't hurt him.

Thrylos has his take. I have mine. You have yours.

And the world is good.

h2oface · May 24, 2018

Carson Smith, Red Sox reliever, is on the fence about whether he will have to have surgery on his right (pitching) shoulder after suffering a subluxation last week, and seeking a second opinion. Missing the 2016 season, and part of the 2017 with TJ recovery, he suffered the disaster after angrily tossing his glove, showing his emotion over a poor outing.

Some like to see grown men, who, whether they like it or not, are examples for our children and grandchildren, behave like kids having a temper tantrum. We witnessed, when he was pulled, the same behavior from Lance Lynn a couple days ago after 6.2 innings of shutout ball, and it is presented as a video clip in Tom Froemming's always appreciated recap article:

http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins-news/minnesota-twins/min-6-det-0-lynn-shows-will-to-win-r6788

Lynn, like Chapman, also missed the 2016 season recovering from TJ. Some see this type of behavior as emotion and passion, passion that can spark a team. Maybe that is true.

Personally, I see it as ridiculous, childish, and unimpressive. A player and a leader can show emotion and passion in so many more advantageous, positive, and more beneficial ways. Over the years, so many players have injured themselves punching walls and coolers, and other needless and unimpressive behavior. In this case, it wasn't even a poor outing for Lynn, it was a great start, a great day, for him and the team! He did the same thing as Chapman. Sure, Chapman's was a freak injury, and it could never happen again, or even to Chapman, except it did and could. Thousands have done the same thing, and no problem, including Lynn during this game. In fact, it is somewhat of a common occurrence. Lynn could have just as well come in the dugout looking for high fives and being exuberant, and he would have been bathed in team spirit and congratulated by the whole team, and created a passionate happy dugout, and fired everyone up with his passion, and even though he has been slow to help his new team, shown some leadership. Instead, he had to mope alone on the bench, and get no love from the rest of the team that basically ignored him then, and let him sit alone in all that misdirected emotion and passion.

I am impressed by the player who, even when they are upset, or slumping, or having a bad outing, still find a way to take a breath and then be a vocal cheerleader and express positive unselfish emotion. And it really isn't about them being an example, it is just that temper tantrums is passion misdirected, and not something that can help anything. Hitting walls, smashing coolers with baseball bats, throwing gloves........ coming out of the dugouts and fighting to have a teammates metaphorical back after he purposely threw a ball at a batter on pupose....... I am not impressed.

But I was impressed with Lynn's day on the mound..... finally.... and I hope the players notice what happened to Carson Chapman, and that it makes them think hard about doing something that has no reward, and could freakishly take them off the field and away from the game and team, and not let them do what they are so lucky to be doing, and getting paid millions to do it. The leadership and passion and emotion for this team is open for the younger stars to step into, and I hope they gel and really start showing it, and have fun winning 90 plus games. The more positive future leaders becoming leaders now and expressing themselves, the better. This division is open for a leader, and it may as well be the Twins.

Edited May 24, 2018 by h2oface

wsnydes · May 24, 2018

I read his quote a few times. It actually made me think a little deeper.

In the video where Hunter interviews him he is asked the same question. He was not under duress and he probably knew the question was coming. He also mentioned that famous Jim Edmonds catch and how he really wants to make catches like that. In the interviews I have seen with Hunter and MLB programs he talks only about defense. The only time he mentions offense is when he talks about not taking slumps onto the field.

This is all really nice, but two things about that:
1. He could end up to be Aaron Rowand 2.0, beat up before his time
2. He needs to embrace the language of hitting and start talking about it a little more. It sure as heck couldn't hurt him.

Thrylos has his take. I have mine. You have yours.
And the world is good.

Honest question since I haven't watched or read all of the interviews with Buxton; does anyone actually ask him about hitting? If the interviewer is focusing on his glove, why would Buxton talk about hitting? That would be off topic. Clearly he's a premier glove and that is definitely something to discuss. His ability in the field is something fewer players possess. If the only question that hints at hitting is what he likes better, I'm not sure why he'd talk about hitting at all. I don't know how a conclusion of any relevance could be derived from that.

It is likely true that if he were hitting he'd be asked about it more. I don't know how much he was asked about it during the second half of last season when he was on fire.

kellyvance · June 4, 2018

Citing 3-for-37 says all we need to hear about the need to start hitting.

Pretty sure the context of Nick's point was that those guys need to start leading the offense, which is pretty much irrefutable.

Yeah, ok, I hear ya. We don't NEED Dozier and Buck to lead the offense. The Eddies are doing that and Kep was hot there, and LoMo is getting better. I think it is simplistic to say it all has to start with two guys. The season is long enough for several hot streaks and several cold spells. And that goes for everyone. It is a TEAM sport. Edited June 4, 2018 by Carole Keller
Knock it off

kellyvance · June 4, 2018

Well, part of leadership is producing on the field and coming through for your team. There are off the field elements also, but if you're one of the players the team is relying on....you sorta need to be reliable at the plate.

Right now Dozier is going on one of his famines and the team needs him to feast. Part of being a leader is stepping up to fill what the club needs from you. It's a perfectly fair criticism.

No, it is not. Hitting does not define leadership. That ball is coming at you in the 90s and moving. You hit it or you don't. Hitting is about athleticism, timing and power. Leadership indicts character, guts, desire, attitude... all of that. It is a character trait. In fact, leadership is ALLLLL about character. It confuses things to say that getting hot makes you a leader. It doesn't. It gets you on base and produces. And leading the occasional rally is not really it. Leadership is more, much more. And Dozier is this team's leader. Period. It was a cheap shot and remains so, despite Nick's delayed attempt at excusifying and ewen's opportunistic piling on

Squirrel · June 4, 2018

No, it is not. Hitting does not define leadership. That ball is coming at you in the 90s and moving. You hit it or you don't. Hitting is about athleticism, timing and power. Leadership indicts character, guts, desire, attitude... all of that. It is a character trait. In fact, leadership is ALLLLL about character. It confuses things to say that getting hot makes you a leader. It doesn't. It gets you on base and produces. And leading the occasional rally is not really it. Leadership is more, much more. And Dozier is this team's leader. Period. It was a cheap shot and remains so, despite Nick's delayed attempt at excusifying and ewen's opportunistic piling on

Everyone has explained to you what Nick meant by leadership in the context of this article. Move on.

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