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    All About Jose De Leon


    Nick Nelson

    We live in an unpredictable world, but some things aren't that hard to foresee. When a batter steps into the box with a 3-0 count and the bases loaded, he can safely assume a fastball is on the way.

    The Dodgers emerging as the leading suitors for Brian Dozier, and dangling Jose De Leon as their primary negotiating chip, falls in the same category.

    Image courtesy of Jake Roth, USA Today

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    Back in early October, while the Los Angeles was still mounting its postseason push, I noted via tweet that a Dozier-for-De Leon swap "makes too much sense." In the Offseason Handbook (still available for free download!), the Dodgers were the first team we listed as a fit for Dozier, and our Offseason Blueprint suggested trading the second baseman for a return led by De Leon.

    Now, the Twins are consistently being connected to Los Angeles in trade rumors. Last week Aaron Gleeman relayed, per league sources, a feeling that the two teams are haggling over what would come along with De Leon in a deal. Days later, Yahoo Sports columnist Jeff Passan reinforced that notion, reporting that the "Dodgers have shown willingless" to include the top prospect in a package for Dozier. It's all coming together pretty much exactly like we predicted and hoped.

    My intention here isn't to pat myself on the back. Anticipating this scenario didn't require some divine prescience – only an ability to connect the dots. The Twins are coming off a 103-loss season and could use a major shakeup, with a roster featuring a surplus of power hitting and an extreme dearth of high-caliber pitching. Meanwhile, the Dodgers are as motivated as any team in the league to get over the hump and win a title, with young arms to spare.

    The top prize amongst that group, Julio Urias, was never a particularly realistic target. After successfully transitioning to the majors at age 19 and subsequently becoming the youngest pitcher ever to start a postseason game, he's not the kind of asset that was going to be made available.

    De Leon, though? Far more plausible. He is four years older than Urias and doesn't carry quite the same level of luster. He also struggled a bit in his MLB debut this year and has dealt with some shoulder issues. He's not a perfect prospect.

    But that doesn't mean he's leftover scraps. Far from it. In the majority of systems De Leon would be the No. 1 prospect, and if he comes over he will immediately leapfrog every pitcher on the farm for the Twins.

    Let's familiarize ourselves with De Leon as we prepare for the possibility that he headlines an upcoming Dozier blockbuster.

    Meteoric Riser

    After finishing up high school in his native Puerto Rico, De Leon headed to the mainland to attend college in Baton Rouge. His career with Southern University featured solid numbers, including a 17-8 record and 3.50 ERA over three seasons, but he didn't catch the eyes of many pro scouts.

    As a result, the slender righty dropped all the way to the 24th round. He was the 724th player selected in 2013. Earlier in that round, the Twins took Brandon Easton, a pitcher who lasted two years in rookie ball before fizzling out of the system. For players selected this late, the odds of reaching the majors – or even hanging on in the affiliated pro ranks for long – are not good.

    Against this backdrop, De Leon's ascension is all the more impressive. His numbers began to rapidly improve and remained strong as he climbed the ladder. He impressed enough at each level that he never stayed anywhere for long. De Leon made four starts at Low-A, seven at High-A, 16 at Double-A and then 16 at Triple-A before getting his call to the big leagues.

    Everywhere he pitched, it took him no more than half a season to convince the front office that he was too good for the competition. Prospect pubs quickly took notice. Prior to the 2016 campaign, three major lists (Baseball America, Baseball Prospectus, MLB.com) had De Leon somewhere between 23 and 28, after never ranking him before.

    The website Minor League Ball, run by longtime prospect guru John Sickels, had De Leon ranked as the game's 14th-best upcoming talent in their preseason release. In the updated end-of-year rankings, published in late September, he was fifth. Sickels placed only Yoan Moncada, Dansby Swanson, Tyler Glasnow and Lucas Giolito ahead of De Leon.

    The 24-year-old owes his escalating profile to a number of skills and strengths, but none stand out more than this one:

    He's A Strikeout Machine

    De Leon's ability to throw the ball past helpless opposing hitters is truly something to behold. During his time in the minors, he has struck out 446 of the 1,371 men he has faced over 330 innings. That's a 12.1 K/9 average and 33 percent rate. For perspective, Jose Berrios – a fellow Puerto Rican and vaunted strikeout artist in his own right – has a 26 percent K-rate in the minors. De Leon would have easily led both the Texas League (AA) and Pacific Coast League (AAA) this year if he had stuck around long enough to qualify.

    It's been somewhat rare for the Twins to boast starting pitching prospects who can even average one strikeout per inning. De Leon has 100 more strikeouts than innings pitched during his relatively short time in the Dodgers system.

    When so few balls are put into play, it's tough to scratch out many hits. So it's no surprise that in those 330 innings of work, De Leon has allowed only 273 hits. Twins pitchers have allowed the most hits of any American League team in five straight seasons.

    De Leon's Changeup Is A Devastating Weapon

    In the tradition of Johan Santana, De Leon relies on his changeup as an out pitch. He's comfortable throwing it in any count, and uses it often. The arm action effectively mimics his fastball to create deception, but he takes about 10 MPH off it with significant vertical movement. (Scroll down to the changeup section here for some good looks at it.)

    Twins pitching coach Neil Allen, who is staying on for 2017, is known to be "big on changeups." He would undoubtedly welcome the chance to work with a starter who has developed the offering into a centerpiece of his repertoire.

    The Shoulder Is A Concern

    Or at least, it was. De Leon spent the first month this year in extended spring while recovering from an ankle injury, then made just one start before sitting out another five weeks due to shoulder inflammation. It's not the greatest sign for a guy who is just getting his season started.

    The Dodgers proceeded very cautiously when the hurler returned from the disabled list, removing him before the fifth inning in each of his first four starts. But by the time he graduated from Triple-A those restrictions were a distant memory. In his final 10 turns with Oklahoma City prior to a September promotion to the majors, De Leon completed seven-plus innings six times and exceeded 100 pitches four times. He also went 6-1 with a 2.43 ERA.

    At this point there isn't much reason to think he's got a bad wing, but it's something to keep an eye on. He hasn't thrown more than 114 total innings in a season, so he needs to prove he can hold up to a starter's workload. He appeared to wear down in his final starts for the Dodgers.

    Perhaps this is the main factor compelling the Twins to a hold out for a bit more in addition to De Leon. That's reasonable enough. But even with some minor health concerns, the highly touted late bloomer appears to be a worthy top prize in exchange for Dozier. He would also provide a dramatic boost to an already encouraging pipeline of impending arrivals.

    Hopefully Derek Falvey and Thad Levine can get this thing done.

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    De Leon would be a great get, and would be a staple in the Twins rotation for years to come.

    Brock Stewart is another name that is being mentioned. I've seen up and down reports on him, down mostly because some scouting reports peg him as a #4. What do people think of him as a prospect?

    Although it would be fun to have Will Smith, the actor, hanging around Target field, Will Smith, the catcher might be a better piece.

     

    De Leon would be a great get, and would be a staple in the Twins rotation for years to come.

    Brock Stewart is another name that is being mentioned. I've seen up and down reports on him, down mostly because some scouting reports peg him as a #4. What do people think of him as a prospect?

    He has been a strikeout machine in the minors.  I think people are down on him due to the #4 projection he initially got.  So far, he's exceeded expectations, and I have to think the 4/5 comparisons are a bit unfair at the moment.  I've noted elsewhere that I'd be fine with him as a 3rd piece to De Leon and Alvarez.  He's a safer prospect with some nice upside at this point.

    Another Fangraphs post from Dave Cameron in support of De Leon.  I didn't realize Steamer projected his FIP this year to be in the Chris Sale, Jake Arrieta, Jon Lester, and Chris Archer range, although that's almost entirely based on his minor league numbers.  I still think they need to get at least one other top 100 prospect, but this would disappoint me if they ultimately end up passing on him.

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-twins-should-take-jose-de-leon-while-they-can/

     

    Deolis Guerra.  Seems like he had a helluva change up too.  Not comparing him to De Leon, exactly.  But when you look at those Fangraphs, um, graphs of future value, and you see that one that says 30% chance of being a 1-5 WAR player, just look at Guerra's career to see what that might look like.

     

    I think a better comparison would be Johan Santana.  He was an elite pitcher when his fastball was near 95.  As his velocity dropped, so did his K%.  He was still effective, but no longer elite.  De Leon's fastball (~ 92) is probably at the lower end of the effectiveness spectrum. 

     

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=755&position=P#advanced

    http://www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=755&position=P&pitch=FA

    http://www.nj.com/mets/index.ssf/2010/06/santana_must_made_adjustments.html

     

    Edited by Eris

     

    Seems very similar to Berrios's MLB start with the Twins.  With the exception of a great 1st game  

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

     

    I don't give much credence to 1st year pitching stats.  Far different class of hitters.

    Now, if same pitchers are really really good, I credence ALL DAY LONG!!

     

    I read a while ago about minor league pitchers with good stuff who can put up low walk numbers in part due to pounding the strike zone and overmatching minor league hitters, but they struggle once they get to the MLB in part due to lack of command that just wasn't necessary in the minor leagues. I think Berrios and De Leon both fall into this category. 

     

    He has been a strikeout machine in the minors.  I think people are down on him due to the #4 projection he initially got.  So far, he's exceeded expectations, and I have to think the 4/5 comparisons are a bit unfair at the moment.  I've noted elsewhere that I'd be fine with him as a 3rd piece to De Leon and Alvarez.  He's a safer prospect with some nice upside at this point.

     

    If De Leon, Alvarez, Stewart were all on the table the deal would be complete by now.

    Update here on stalling Dozier trade talks from Jon Heyman: http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-dodgers-twins-standstill-dozier-trade-talks/

     

    Sounds like the two sides are agreed on De Leon as the main piece, but reaching an impasse on the rest of the package. Twins pushing for Alvarez or Buehler and getting rebuked (unsurprisingly).

     

    Hopefully the deal doesn't fall apart because disagreement over the secondary pieces.

    Bellinger is the issue. We want him and they don't want to give him up. We need to be patient as Dozier for de Leon as the main piece is just not enough. We need at least 3 high end prospects as "maybe" one of the 3 actually are good... not even great. At this point Dozier IS great and relatively cheap. No "need" to move him unless we get a GREAT deal.

    I hope everyone who is advocating keeping Dozier if the Dodgers don't overspend for him won't be the same people who complain when we get less for him next offseason or nothing for him when he leaves after two seasons.  

     

    Two years of Dozier, even at the salary he will be getting, isn't worth 3 top Dodgers prospects.  Dodgers shouldn't give up De Leon and Bellinger for him and I highly doubt they will.

    Edited by jimmer

    I hope everyone who is advocating keeping Dozier if the Dodgers don't overspend for him won't be the same people who complain when we get less for him next offseason or nothing for him when he leaves after two seasons.

     

    Two years of Dozier, even at the salary he will be getting, isn't worth 3 top Dodgers prospects. Dodgers shouldn't give up De Leon and Bellinger for him and I highly doubt they will.

    This. Dozier is a nice player but people are vastly over estimating the value of two years of him is

     

    Update here on stalling Dozier trade talks from Jon Heyman: http://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/heyman-dodgers-twins-standstill-dozier-trade-talks/

     

    Sounds like the two sides are agreed on De Leon as the main piece, but reaching an impasse on the rest of the package. Twins pushing for Alvarez or Buehler and getting rebuked (unsurprisingly).

     

    Hopefully the deal doesn't fall apart because disagreement over the secondary pieces. 

     

    Not sure that Alvarez or Buehler would be the secondary piece in a trade that involved DeLeon ;)

     

    At this point, I totally agree, they have to do it. 

     

    If Dozier is a Twin opening day 2017 (same about Ervin Santana, btw) it would not be a good omen for the new FO...

    Yeah. This is the Mets deal with Johan. The press reported the deal and we waited and hoped we could find a better deal. Then the same deal went through

     

    We have to trade Dozier and the Dodgers know it. To those who say wait to the deadline, a quarter of his time would be gone and if he struggles his value erodes by a ton. If he is at .240 and 8 HR at the deadline we aren't getting DeLeon.

    Yeah. This is the Mets deal with Johan. The press reported the deal and we waited and hoped we could find a better deal. Then the same deal went through

    We have to trade Dozier and the Dodgers know it. To those who say wait to the deadline, a quarter of his time would be gone and if he struggles his value erodes by a ton. If he is at .240 and 8 HR at the deadline we aren't getting DeLeon.

     

    The big "if" is the assumption DeLeon is having a lot of MLB success with the Dodgers. Reading all the fangraphs articles and seeing DeLeon's MLB pitching line to date he is no sure thing. He may be a star and he may be something less. Dozier is a proven star, controllable for 2 years and based upon track record is more likely to success than DeLeon in 2017. The Twins deserve multiple solid prospects for Dozier, not just DeLeon.

     

    I liked De Leon as a prospect in the minors but there are definite concerns here. I didn't like how he looked in his 4 MLB starts. His fastball looked fringy sitting 89-92 and he had poor command of it missing his spots. Hitters laid off of his changeup after his first start vs SD and sat fastball which was rather hittable. And then the shoulder issues are a problem as well (a rather large one)>

     

    Johan Santana's fastball sat at just under 92 but he had the capability to toss it at 95 when he needed to.  He also had a ridiculous low-80s changeup to go with his fastball.

     

    De Leon showed the same stuff in his limited number of starts.  The problem is De Leon lived on his fastball during his so-far-short MLB career.  If De Leon lets someone else call the pitches he will be fine. 

     

    As for De Leon missing spots, heat maps show he was throwing strikes.  But, if you toss the same 91-92 MPH fastball to the same spots in the strike zone for every pitch, you're going to get burned.

     

    De Leon definitely does not have the control issues we have seen with nearly every rookie Twins pitcher since 2011.  His velocity is also not a problem. 

     

    I imagine your argument is exactly the argument the Twins make when trying to negotiate with the Dodgers.  I doubt the Dodgers are buying it. 

    Edited by Doomtints

     

    Johan Santana's fastball sat at just under 92 but he had the capability to toss it at 95 when he needed to.  He also had a ridiculous low-80s changeup to go with his fastball.

     

    De Leon showed the same stuff in his limited number of starts.  The problem is De Leon lived on his fastball during his so-far-short MLB career.  If De Leon lets someone else call the pitches he will be fine. 

     

    As for De Leon missing spots, heat maps show he was throwing strikes.  But, if you toss the same 91-92 MPH fastball to the same spots in the strike zone for every pitch, you're going to get burned.

     

    De Leon definitely does not have the control issues we have seen with nearly every rookie Twins pitcher since 2011.  His velocity is also not a problem. 

     

    I imagine your argument is exactly the argument the Twins make when trying to negotiate with the Dodgers.  I doubt the Dodgers are buying it. 

     

    I was just talking about how he did in his 1st four MLB starts (not very good). Those starts happened, so they do matter. I like De Leon as a prospect and would be happy with him as part of the return for Dozier. For the most part - your points are talking about different things than I stated, so I'm just going to leave it at that. 

     

    You're right he threw an absurd amount of fastballs. His 66.1 FB% would have been top 10 in the MLB over the course of a full season. In his 2 non Padres starts, he struggled to get swinging strikes (3.1% vs NYY and 7.2% against ARI).

     

    Edited by King



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