Twins Outright Four Players

[stringer bell]

Bernier makes five--still more easy outrights to make.

[panolo]

so he should lie to the masses, because they don't know better? I'm not sure what you are saying here.

 

You can spin it as a lie if that is the way you choose to read it. He's not going to come out and say we got a 28 yr old tomato can who has mediocre track record at the Major League level. It's not the way the PR game works.

 

I mean what do people expect him to say. "He's roster filler. Never really hit in the major's. Has a weak arm. Terrible plate discipline with Major League breaking balls. Should help Rochester be competitive once Hicks takes the job back."

 

He's going to talk about positives. He's not going to come out and say Presley is a stop gap until Hicks or Buxton is ready. If they sold Powerball tickets on the basis that your chance of winning the jackpot is 1 in 1billion how many you going to buy?

[chopper0080]

This might be a bit easier...names that SHOULD be on a decent 40 man roster and are not completely replaceable.

 

1-Joe Mauer

2-Kevin Correia

3-Kyle Gibson

4-BJ Hermsen

5-Trevor Mays

6-Glen Perkins

7-Michael Tonkin

8-Caleb Thielbar

9-Josmil Pinto

10-Brian Dozier

11-Eduardo Escobar

12-Danny Santana

13-Oswaldo Arcia

14-Aaron Hicks

15-Josh Willingham

 

am I missing anyone???

 

Pretty much sums up the roster that has been put together...

[stringer bell]

BJ Hermsen? Are you from central Iowa? He's not good enough to be in Triple A. Otherwise I agree with the other 14. Here is another 10 who belong on a 40-man roster (not saying they're all good, but they deserve 40-man space): 15-Aaron Hicks 16-Samuel Deduno 17-Pedro Florimon 18-Jared Burton 19-Ryan Pressly 20-Anthony Swarzak 21-Trevor Plouffe 22-Scott Diamond 23-Brian Duensing 24-Vance Worley

[snepp]

I'm confused. Is it the regression bullet we're concerned about, or the regression hammer? Or are they different things?

 

You stat geeks...

 

You're killing me here, killing me...

 

 

 

...with a hammer bullet.

[Alex]

This might be a bit easier...names that SHOULD be on a decent 40 man roster and are not completely replaceable.

 

1-Joe Mauer

2-Kevin Correia

3-Kyle Gibson

4-BJ Hermsen

5-Trevor Mays

6-Glen Perkins

7-Michael Tonkin

8-Caleb Thielbar

9-Josmil Pinto

10-Brian Dozier

11-Eduardo Escobar

12-Danny Santana

13-Oswaldo Arcia

14-Aaron Hicks

15-Josh Willingham

 

am I missing anyone???

 

Pretty much sums up the roster that has been put together...

 

I'd add Hermann to the list because of his flexibility. I prefer him over Doumit at this point.

[Shane Wahl]

I think an argument can be made that 25 or so of the guys on the 40 man truly belong there. Hopefully, Willingham and Doumit can be traded to get some AA pitchers who might be worthy (or need to be) of being on the 40-man. Said pitchers must throw over 90mph on a regular basis though.

 

Speaking of pitchers who CANNOT do that--BJ Hermsen wouldn't be claimed by anybody.

[Alex]

I think an argument can be made that 25 or so of the guys on the 40 man truly belong there. Hopefully, Willingham and Doumit can be traded to get some AA pitchers who might be worthy (or need to be) of being on the 40-man. Said pitchers must throw over 90mph on a regular basis though.

 

Speaking of pitchers who CANNOT do that--BJ Hermsen wouldn't be claimed by anybody.

 

I'd be highly impressed if either one of those players bring back anything more than a reliever or AAAA type player. I predict they'll be on the major league roster next season clogging it up and one of the reasons the Twins are going to continue to struggle since they should be bench players at this point, but that would leave a single spot on the bench for a catcher (with 13 pitchers).

[Shane Wahl]

I'd be highly impressed if either one of those players bring back anything more than a reliever or AAAA type player. I predict they'll be on the major league roster next season clogging it up and one of the reasons the Twins are going to continue to struggle since they should be bench players at this point, but that would leave a single spot on the bench for a catcher (with 13 pitchers).

 

Yeah, I am advocating for basically trying to find someone who has had struggles who works it out. I know they aren't getting top 10 organizational prospects for these two. The Orioles have some guys in the 11-20 range, though. I am sure that team probably wants pitching, so maybe a bad example.

 

I was thinking 25 year-old types in AA who you "gamble" on or erratic fireballers in low-A who you "gamble" on. Clearing the clog is enough for me to settle for DJ Baxendale or Josh Burris equivalent.

[Alex]

Yeah, I am advocating for basically trying to find someone who has had struggles who works it out. I know they aren't getting top 10 organizational prospects for these two. The Orioles have some guys in the 11-20 range, though. I am sure that team probably wants pitching, so maybe a bad example.

 

I was thinking 25 year-old types in AA who you "gamble" on or erratic fireballers in low-A who you "gamble" on. Clearing the clog is enough for me to settle for DJ Baxendale or Josh Burris equivalent.

 

Absolutely. A incredibly high risk player is all they could hope for, but I still wonder if the Twins will overvalue them and thus not get what the expect and keep them. But, I agree, unclogging the roster is far more important.

 

One thing that people may not realize is that they make $10M together, and while money shouldn't be an issue, that $10M could be put to far better use instead.

[Kwak]

Absolutely. A incredibly high risk player is all they could hope for, but I still wonder if the Twins will overvalue them and thus not get what the expect and keep them. But, I agree, unclogging the roster is far more important.

 

One thing that people may not realize is that they make $10M together, and while money shouldn't be an issue, that $10M could be put to far better use instead.

 

You must have overheard Pohlad!

[diehardtwinsfan]

Alex Presley is not "solid." Good god. He can only make a career out of *potentially* being a good fourth OF. His "leadoff approach" has amounted to a career .304 OBP. That is a damn embarrassment. Gardy likes him, so you do too, right?

 

It amazes me how TD is full of non-independence right now. This is apologetics for the status quo at every turn. Cycles and now defenses of Alex Presley as the 2014 leadoff man!

 

Alex Presley leading off is a tell-tale sign that the Twins have just given up again.

 

Why in the world do people need to paint this guy in terms of extremes. He's a decent stop gap with some upside. Worst case, he's a place holder for Hicks/Buxton and a 4th OF when he arrives, and that I think at this point is pretty much guaranteed. Best case, he's a late bloomer and he comes close to mirroring his minor league success in the majors, at which point, he can hold the job until Buxton or Hicks forces it and then he can be traded for a far better return than an aging Justin Morneau. People blast the front office for not taking risks like this and then they blast them when they do. This is a cheap acquisition that could possibly turn out to be a very shrewd baseball move or may simply provide the team with a 4th OF with some pop.

 

Of all the consternation about the front office, I don't get this one. The team has one OF in the future in RF and Willingham for one more season in LF with both Buxton and Hicks likely knocking on the door next season. They aren't, nor should they, going after a guy like Ellsbury, and quite frankly Pressley makes a far better placeholder than Clete.

 

I don't know what people expected to get for Justin. It wasn't going to be much, Justin pretty much assured that when he sucked this spring. I wish him well, and I hope he gets a ring in Pittsburg, but he wasn't going to bring in much. That was a gamble, and it didn't pay off.

[diehardtwinsfan]

TR's comments about Presley (and I will assume Gardenhire loves him) are just another example of why I have finally come around to wanting these two guys fired. There is no statistical basis for Presley love, esp. starting at the top of the lineup. Isn't that clear? Dude has spent a lot of time in AAA and that has not translated to major league success beyond 4 OF.

 

Really, the .876 OPS in Indianapolis last year or the .806 OPS this year there doesn't count? You are correct in that he's spent of lot of time in AAA and it hasn't yielded success. It doesn't mean that he couldn't. Didn't Theo make some comment a while back that he didn't believe there was such a thing as an AAAA guy, but someone who just takes a bit longer to develop? I get wanting Ryan and Gardy fired. I wanted Gardy gone, and as I've said numerous times, I don't think Ryan is the right guy for this job in a year or two when the wave arrives, but this really isn't the reason to be upset.

 

Let the kid have his shot. He's at worst another Clete and at best he could be much better. Simply having him here from day one is already one step better than what we had in CF last season. In the mean time it means CF is one less excuse the Twins have to not go out and get pitching.

[stringer bell]

I think Presley showed in his brief audition that he's a better offensive player than Clete. Thomas was actually pretty solid in the OF, but you have to hit better than he did to merit continued major league pay. If Presley is the starter at the beginning of the year, he's probably somewhere between 25th and 30th best as a starting CF. I just don't expect him to be the starting CF throughout the summer.

[jokin]

By the way, I think I should change my avatar. Having it makes me more and more surly.

 

Also, for the record, I am not a Big Ten college professor. I did teach at Purdue as a grad student, but I am now employed at the community college in town. Servicing the poor and whatnot. Teaching Nietzsche to poor people . . .

 

Once part of a Big Ten school, always part of a Big Ten School. Shouldn't feel any qualms about what you've accomplished, surliness, however comes with the territory- "Twins Territory", that is. 2 Nietzche quotes that are favorites of mine, and additionally are apropos to this thread....Thus Spoke Zarathustra:

 

“Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man.”

 

"Everything the State says is a lie, and everything it has it has stolen."

[jokin]

I think Presley showed in his brief audition that he's a better offensive player than Clete. Thomas was actually pretty solid in the OF, but you have to hit better than he did to merit continued major league pay. If Presley is the starter at the beginning of the year, he's probably somewhere between 25th and 30th best as a starting CF. I just don't expect him to be the starting CF throughout the summer.

 

Agreed. I just hope that the FO doesn't expect him to be the CF throughout the summer- because if so, my fears of a 100-loss season become more confirmed. Presley is a good 4th OF on a bottom 10 team- he is what he is- and I think we can all agree, being a better offensive player than Clete Thomas is the lowest of low bar thresholds.

[jokin]

Really, the .876 OPS in Indianapolis last year or the .806 OPS this year there doesn't count? You are correct in that he's spent of lot of time in AAA and it hasn't yielded success. It doesn't mean that he couldn't. Didn't Theo make some comment a while back that he didn't believe there was such a thing as an AAAA guy, but someone who just takes a bit longer to develop? I get wanting Ryan and Gardy fired. I wanted Gardy gone, and as I've said numerous times, I don't think Ryan is the right guy for this job in a year or two when the wave arrives, but this really isn't the reason to be upset.

 

Let the kid have his shot. He's at worst another Clete and at best he could be much better. Simply having him here from day one is already one step better than what we had in CF last season. In the mean time it means CF is one less excuse the Twins have to not go out and get pitching.

 

Speaking of "hope prolonging the torment".....a guy turning 29 in 2014 is not a kid.

[jokin]

Bernier makes five--still more easy outrights to make.

 

They're still only less than 1/3 of the way to where they need to be with the outrights. In a rare moment of eloquence, Bert nailed it when he said what a huge missed opportunity it was for the legion of AAA guys who didn't take better advantage of the Twins' situation and demonstrate that they wanted a long-term MLB gig. Find another group of guys as filler who might be a little hungrier, mixed in with some FAs who demonstrate some leadership qualities and standards of accountability, and then at least we'll have made an attempt at an attitude adjustment to the current country club culture pervading the Twins clubhouse.....something has to be done now to shake things up, drop the tired cliches.....and begin and strike the chords of a new clubhouse meme....before the inevitable arrival of the prospects.

[Mr. Brooks]

They're still only less than 1/3 of the way to where they need to be with the outrights. In a rare moment of eloquence, Bert nailed it when he said what a huge missed opportunity it was for the legion of AAA guys who didn't take better advantage of the Twins' situation and demonstrate that they wanted a long-term MLB gig. Find another group of guys as filler who might be a little hungrier, mixed in with some FAs who demonstrate some leadership qualities and standards of accountability, and then at least we'll have made an attempt at an attitude adjustment to the current country club culture pervading the Twins clubhouse.....something has to be done now to shake things up, drop the tired cliches.....and begin and strike the chords of a new clubhouse meme....before the inevitable arrival of the prospects.

 

They didn't "take advantage" because they don't have the talent.

I'm not sure where this mentality comes from (actually, yes I am, Gardy and TR) that inferior players just need to "try harder", "battle their tails off", and/or "get after it", and they will suddenly play better than they are capable of.

 

Simply throwing more "filler" at the problem will result in the exact same results.