Young Twins and their exit velos

[h2oface]

On 12/21/2022 at 8:09 AM, dex8425 said:

This could be a great debate topic. I don't think they would be inept, but athletes today are stronger, faster, and more powerful than athletes of 70 years ago and that's not debatable. Look at the track and field, marathon world records, xc skiing speeds,  pitching velocity, and lifting world records. Athletes today have access to better training methods, nutrition, etc. Nolan Ryan made headlines because he was one of the first pitchers to regularly lift weights. Coaches told him not to. Now everybody in baseball lifts. I think if you took Bob Gibson and he grew up today, that he could be a great pitcher. But take 1960's Bob Gibson and put him in today's game...it's a different game. I don't think he would be as great now as he was then. In the end that doesn't matter because you have to compare all these players relative to their era. That's why Babe Ruth was the greatest baseball player of all time-he was simply superhuman compared to his peers. 

Do you really think Babe Ruth would hit 60 home runs in today's game? He faced pitchers who threw fastballs in the mid 80's and played in small ballparks. I do think 1978 Nolan Ryan would still make hitters look silly today though.

First of all, there are only assumptions about how fast the pitchers threw. 1973-74 a radar gun was used. The rest is all speculation and assumption. There are a lot of horrible pitchers that can throw hard. Pitching is not just about velocity. Never was, Never will be. It is such a different game now that not only is the overall hitting success way down, but so is the pitching. And the players are fragile and can't stay on the field and play. So strong and great that the more frequent injuries keep them off the field at an unprecidented rate. In my opinion, the key is flexibilty and balance, and these guys break easier because they don't tap into yoga and pilates and things like TRX. They are fragile. Stronger and more brittle. Yup. So much better now that they are faster and bigger and stronger, etc. That is why the Twins pitching is so great, and so many other teams just can't seem to find all these incredible pitchers. And the batters can't seem to hit the ball as often. And don't care. Nick Nelson spends tons of words to try to convince us that a .199 hitter is great! It is a different game, I will agree with you on that. Athletes are constantly setting records, this is true. Michael Jordan was an incredible athlete. He still couldn't hit very well. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2184581-the-radar-gun-revolution

Velocity is great, but movement is still king.

Regarding Babe..... I wouldn't bet against him, ever, but alas, one will never know, and my opinion on it means absolutely nothing.

Now, back to exit velocities. Just wanted to respond, not hijack a thread. Cheers.

[dex8425]

15 hours ago, h2oface said:

First of all, there are only assumptions about how fast the pitchers threw. 1973-74 a radar gun was used. The rest is all speculation and assumption. There are a lot of horrible pitchers that can throw hard. Pitching is not just about velocity. Never was, Never will be. It is such a different game now that not only is the overall hitting success way down, but so is the pitching. And the players are fragile and can't stay on the field and play. So strong and great that the more frequent injuries keep them off the field at an unprecidented rate. In my opinion, the key is flexibilty and balance, and these guys break easier because they don't tap into yoga and pilaties and things like TRX. They are fragile. Stronger and more brittle. Yup. So much better now that they are faster and bigger and stronger, etc. That is why the Twins pitching is so great, and so many other teams just can't seem to find all these incredible pitchers. And the batters can't seem to hit the ball as often. And don't care. Nick Nelson spends tons of words to try to convince us that a .199 hitter is great! It is a different game, I will agree with you on that. Athletes are constantly setting records, this is true. Michael Jordan was an incredible athlete. He still couldn't hit very well. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2184581-the-radar-gun-revolution

Velocity is great, but movement is still king.

Regarding Babe..... I wouldn't bet against him, ever, but alas, one will never know, and my opinion on it means absolutely nothing.

Now, back to exit velocities. Just wanted to respond, not hijack a thread. Cheers.

You're right-focus is on measurable intricacies like exit velo and pitching velocity and spin rate, when non-measurables, like, yes, staying healthy, caused the Twins more losses this year than anything. I do think the desire to throw hard and hit bombs leads to injuries, indirectly and directly. Verlander and Ryan stayed healthy because they didn't throw as hard as they could every pitch.  Good video on guessing velocity from historic pitchers- 

 

[rick kayser]

What a wonderful and useful discussion, with useful differences in opinion.. My own take is that balance is the best model. The player I use as a template is Joe Morgan. A remarkable skill set, not easily replicated, but needs to be  emulated.

[Adam Friedman]

Nick really hits the snot out of the ball and is yet so small.